fifth estate Wednesday CBC TV -"Sticks & Stones" Al Franken vs O'Liely

[Ruby Romaine]

Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 9:00 p.m.
Sticks and Stones

Forget the American melting pot. Today, the United States is like a nation of warring factions, where the political debate has become a yelling match between two extremes. Where once opposing political views were tolerated if not respected, there now exists a very un-civil state of affairs. It's right versus left, Republican versus Democrat, blue state versus red state.

Nowhere is this change more obvious than in the media. Talk radio and TV have become the new forum for the gladiators in this war; words the new weapons. The biggest mouths have become the biggest stars-Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and Ann Coulter rail against what they call the liberal enemy. These days, when Americans say "liberal" or "conservative', they mean something far more profound-something that describes the fundamental way someone looks at the world; almost like a religion. And these days, it seems, everybody in the United States belongs to one camp or the other.

In Sticks and Stones, the fifth estate's Bob McKeown talks to some of the biggest stars on the left and the right of this great national, even continental, divide.

[Eric J in MN]

1. Unfortunately, the percent of Americans who call themselves

"liberals" is small.

[Ruby Romaine]

2. not true - the media would like you to think that we are a minority.

and bush got a "mandate"
Ha!

[iverglas]

3. thanks for the heads up

There are so many bloody super documentaries on CBC/Newsworld these days that it makes for a bit of an exhausting schedule.

I particularly liked Ann Coulter insisting that Canada had "sent troops to Vietnam".

No, we didn't.
Yes, you did.
Really, we didn't.
I think you're wrong.
No, we took a pass on that one.
I think you're wrong. I'll get back to you on that one.

Still waiting for Ann to get back ...

Shall we all email her and insist that she prove the doltish CBC guy wrong?


Oh, and I also liked the translations of "liberal" and "conservative" provided at the beginning, for the benefit of the unsuspecting Canadian audience. ;)

[Canadian Socialist]

9. MAnn is confusing

"Canadian" with Canadian Armed Forces. There were, IIRC, Canadians who joined the U.S. forces and fought in Viet Nam. However, they did NOT fight as Canadian soldiers. If that makes any sense. It's like during WWII a lot of American's joined the RAF and fought for Britain before the U.S. joined the war.

[iverglas]

11. I thought maybe

What she said was "you sent troops to Vietnam". *We*, of course did not *send* troops. But there certainly were Canadians in the US military there, yes. (And there certainly were other Canadian "contributions" to the US's little venture.)

So tales of Canadians going to Vietnam may have entered her consciousness, and then come out, after passing through her twisting little neural pathways (and being flattened down to the minimum she could spare space for, given her complete lack of any genuine interest in anything Canada gets up to ... Canadians ... Vietnam ...), as "Canada sent troops to Vietnam".

Amazing how someone can be so adamant about being so wrong though.

But that's a phenomenon I observed years ago on USAmerican talk shows, and experienced myself when I was on a panel on the Shirley Show. Express an opinion, and express it forcefully (which stands in for "sincerely"), and you get big applause, no matter what the opinion might be. It's the having of the opinion that matters, and the forcefulness with which it's expressed by which its value is judged. The person expressing his/her opinion most forcefully is obviously the person with the best opinion.

[SixStrings]

4. I had to turn it off...

I lasted 20 minutes and coudnt stand to watch another second. Ann Coulter is an embarassment to US media. I was so mad at her I was having chest pains. How come she gets any airtime at all? How about O'Reilly threatening us with a Boycott and then spouting that phony line about " Paris Business revue says France has lost billions!"... Where is the objective media? Why is he allowed to lie like that and threaten a whole country without being taken to task? How come Americans are not infuriated by this? I've never been happier to be a Canadian...

[iverglas]

5. now that we've got Fox ...

I have digital cable, and since Fox was added to the line-up of available channels (late December?), I've been getting it free.

I trust this won't continue beyond the January freebie month for all the other channels. I pay for BBCWorld and MSNBC, so I expect to have to pay for Fox too. (Not sure why CNN makes it into the non-digital, enhanced basic cable line-up.)

The question is: will I pay for it?

I think I will. I really do want to know what all those people are watching.

The fun thing is that we have the CRTC. If O'Reilly makes a claim like that "Paris Business Review" thing on air in Canada, or any of them engage in the kind of ethnic/national stereotyping they seem so fond of, we can make a complaint.


http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/LEGAL/TVREGS.HTM

5. (1) A licensee shall not broadcast

(a) anything in contravention of the law;

(b) any abusive comment or abusive pictorial representation that, when taken in context, tends to or is likely to expose an individual or a group or class of individuals to hatred or contempt on the basis of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, sexual orientation, age or mental or physical disability;

(c) any obscene or profane language or pictorial representation; or

(d) any false or misleading news.

Now, Fox is not a "licensee"; Fox is broadcast in Canada by a cable company, a "distribution operator".

Not being an expert in these things, I'm not sure what the arrangements are for making a complaint about something that violates those provisions that appears on a station that is not licensed as a broadcaster in Canada, and instead is carried by a cable company. And a quick look-around hasn't given me the answer. But I think there must be some procedure for a complaint that material on a station carried by a cable company is material that a Canadian licensed station would not be permitted to carry.

So what we probably need now is a "Fox Watch" group of some sort, to monitor the thing and make complaints where appropriate. I'm game!

[laundry_queen]

7. That's a good idea!

I'm game as well.

[arikara]

8. The crtc must have been bought off

to allow faux to broadcast with no stipulations, but to place so many on aljazeera that it still isn't possible for them to air in Canada.

on edit: fix grammar... should learn to preview.

[Bullwinkle925]

12. Those of us who have 'half a brain' ARE infuriated!

Unfortunately in this country there has been a media coup and there are thousands of people walking around zombie-like eating up everything that is spewed out by Fox news. (Faux news, rather).
The fat bastards here are content as long as they can continue living behind their 'gated communities' and driving their Hummers with stickers of the US Flag captioned by "These Colors Never Run". It's a f*ing disgrace to humanity.

However, please please know that we are not ALL like that here. We are working diligently to overthrow the rotten lot who are taking up space in Washington.

[laundry_queen]

6. I watched it.

Twice I might add (once with hubby) and was shocked. I had heard Fox was bad, but wow. just wow. I have no words. *sigh*

I thought the exchange with Ann Coulter about Vietnam was particularly funny.

And that psycho stalker conservative talk show host from Canada. LOLOL.

I hope they replay that Fifth estate repeatedly to counteract any dolts who now get Fox that may actually fall for that crap.

Does anyone think though now that Fox is in Canada, they may have to tone down their anti-Canada-ism?? I cannot imagine any of that going over very well here. (duh). Dh and I had a good chuckle over Bill o'Lielly's threatening Canada with economic upheaval should the US boycott them. And that trade with France has gone UP since the US 'boycott'. Sheesh.

If we didn't all laugh we'd cry.

[Domitan]

10. I enjoyed the episode

Just hope that Canada doesn't have its own FOX rep in terms of influence and poison.

[laundry_queen]

13. Did anyone watch the follow up on The National tonight?

Apparently Dild O'Leilly is not very happy and had fun attacking Canada again today. He's holding the Canadian Government responsible for the program last night. What a tool.

[Spazito]

15. Here is an article from CBC re O'Lielly's reaction...

Fox News host slams CBC documentary

WASHINGTON - Fox News commentator Bill O'Reilly has lashed out at a CBC documentary featuring guests who were highly critical of his show.

"Vicious attack on Fox News by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, totally out of any kind of bounds," said O'Reilly in his response Friday night to the Fifth Estate broadcast on Jan. 26.

"How low will they go? We'll show you the tape and you won't believe it!" was another response found on the Fox News website.

The Fifth Estate's website says the documentary examines the "war of words that's pitting conservative against liberal."

more

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/01/29/oreilly050129.html


It seems O'Lielly had to go to a Canadian nutcase, Rachel Marsden of the stalking nut case, to get a pro-O'Lielly Canadian, lol. Here is a link to her activities:

Vancouver woman charged with harassment
Last Updated Nov 21 2002 06:47 PM PST

http://vancouver.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=bc_marsden20021121

[arikara]

18. OMG... that was her???

I remember that case well, she tried to ruin the poor guy and it was big news for awhile. She is a nutter. She probably wants to marry O'Lieley now.

[HamiltonHabs32]

14. aaarghhh

I totally missed this.. I was at work anybody know where I can get a torrent? or anything?

Im sure they decieded on the show after seeing this display of Coulter filth

[arikara]

17. It should be repeated on Newsworld

they play 5th Estate several times during the week. I missed the first 10 minutes of it and need to catch it sometime too.

[Jackie97]

16. As an American, I can see what they're saying.

What the auther doesn't realize is that it was turning religious on both sides before the election. There are people so conservative that they'll listen to Ann Vulcher. There are people so liberal that they'll listen to answer. The idea on both sides turns into an issue of "We're right. The other side if the enemy. Most to everything we say is right. Everything they say is a lie. Don't listen to them. You're either with us or against us". Even liberals are acting in a "with us or against us" sort of way. People are forgetting that most Americans don't belong to either side. They might be Republican or Democrat, but most of them are what Americans call the moderates. They share views from both sides. Politicians are normally forced to make compromises to keep their job because of this.

I can't believe that conservatives are embracing somebody like Culture lately though. She's so bigoted, and openly so. Conservatives used to at least stay away from open bigots. At least, I thought they did.

Anyway, I look at non-Americans on the internet and I see people are far to the left (most of the time). At the same time, I see people who don't typically want to have a civil war in their own country.

I'm proud to be a progressive, but the truth is that it's become an ideology along with being conservative. I don't like that. People believe things without researching them. People jump to dumb conclusions about people they don't normally like (such as fundamentalists); conclusions that just aren't true. At some point, some progressives in the US are just so into their ideology that they don't have a brain anymore. Yes, conservatives in the US are the same, but I care about my side. I don't care about theirs that much.

Sorry to keep using the terms liberal and conservative. I meant those words by US definition. I realize they mean something different outside the US.

Sometimes, I really do just want to move to another country so I can know what a normal one is like. It's not that I'm afraid of Bush. It's that I want to know what it's like to live someplace that's normal.

I realize the whole thing was meant to be anti-conservative. Sorry to slightly change the subject there. I meant to say that I understand what they mean by the religion part. So many people are in their own tent now, and so many of them are not thinking on their own like non-Americans often do. Whether they're liberal or conservative, too many of them are not thinking on their own. It's a problem.

Not that I don't hate all those figures you all spoke about. I just added my two cents. Sorry to be off topic there.

[Tripper11]

19. I am looking for streaming version...

I missed the episode when it aired. Someone in another forum(General I think, but I have since lost the thread) had links to the bit torrent, I downloaded the .avi but it would only play the sound, no pics...so is there anywhere I can get a .wmv or mpeg to view?

[Spazito]

20. It is re-airing on Newsworld tonight at 7 pm...

if you can get it.

[Joel]

26. here you go

http://www.lokitorrent.com/torrents-details.php?id=109009

[Swede]

21. Check out our own right winger's thoughts on this.

You know it's nazis in Kanada when they have Anne Coulter and Paul Jackson links.

http://www.proudtobecanadian.ca/threads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=$Cat

[Feathered Fish]

22. Ha!

Paul Jackson - what a joke.

[Spazito]

23. Wow! I just caught the re-airing of this on Newsworld

Excellent program! O'Lielly and Coulter show exactly what they are, ugly, ugly people.

[Feathered Fish]

24. Not only them

How about that superstar Rachel Marsden. She is such a sleeze.

[Spazito]

25. Oh man, I just loved when she was asked if O'Lielly's ...

harassment 'problem' was fair game and she said yes but when asked about her own criminal conviction for harassment she says "That's not pertinent". ROFLMAO

I find it hard to believe she has much of a radio audience but there are a few nutcases to be found everywhere I guess.