holy shit!!! when did the spainards become so racist???

[Blue_Tires]

I read about what happened in the (un)friendly match in Madrid...I'm a (black) American, and even though I've never been to Spain, I always thought they were more enlightened than this...I've met many spainards, and they seemed alright to me

[Rowdyboy]

1. Um....maybe a link or mention of an actual event would make this thread

more meaningful. What the hell are you talking about?

[AlamoDemoc]

2. more detail please

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. I don't know what specifics you are talking about

but... but... look at Spanish History... do me a favor and CLOSELY look at it..

[htuttle]

4. During the early 8th century, probably

Right around 711 AD.

[Sanity Claws]

5. Personal experience

I have visited Spain twice and saw racism. In our group, there was a young black man. He was not treated well in shops. As for Gypsies, and there are a lot of them in Spain, I have heard the native Spanish say incredibly awful things.

[Kellanved]

6. I am shocked

Football Fans can be an extremely unfriendly lot; some fans are notorious for their racism - Lazio Roma's for instance.

Alcohol and a few starting it, can make a whole crowd chant something they'd not say normally. I don't think that there is a single country in the world where Football fans would never do such a thing.

[pk_du]

7. He means the "England-Spain" soccer match in Madrid

where Spaniards ( no extra "I" please") chanted "monkey" noises when black english players had the ball.

...look , there are racists ALL over the world, why think they dont exist in Spain?

[Blue_Tires]

11. i understand

but to see a stadium crowd do it is alarming....and the part i can't figure out is this isn't some place like the Czech Republic or Croatia, where they probably don't see a whole lot of people like me...Blacks have lived and been a part of spanish culture for awhile now...Africans, Brazilians, etc., have excelled and are stars in La Liga...i just don't understand

[pk_du]

14. I didnt see the game but i understand it was a small but

vociferous minority ( that need sto be routed out for sure).

BTW - even in UK , many thugs/racists will shout abuse at black players EVEN IF THEIR OWN TEAM HAS BLACK PLAYERS...go figure.

There is no comprehending knuckledraggers - anywhere.

[Mr Creosote]

19. I saw the highlights

it certainly didn't sound like a minority - although it has been suggested that the BBC might have tweaked the effects mikes to make sure everyone got the point.
I follow Norwich City and I haven't heard any abuse directed at black players for many years. Although before the West Ham game last year my pre-match pub was taken over by a bunch of cockney morons singing anti-semitic songs. I bet Hitler never even knew he was bombing his own.

[Blue_Tires]

8. links about the incident (sorry i forgot)

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1353337,00.html

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1352950,00.html

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/report?id=168977&cc=5901

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=316710&cc=5901

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. Link

Sports minister Richard Caborn said he was "appalled" and "outraged" by racist abuse suffered by England's black players during the friendly in Spain.

Racist chants aimed at Ashley Cole and Shaun Wright-Phillips could clearly be heard during England's 1-0 defeat at Madrid's Bernabeu Stadium.
...
The Football Association had already lodged a written complaint with Uefa over racist abuse aimed at England Under-21 players during Tuesday's 1-0 defeat in Spain.

Carlton Cole, Darren Bent and Glen Johnson were subjected to chants during the game.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/4018421.stm

It does surprise me a bit. English football used to have a bad racist problem, when black players were starting to become common. It's died down a bit now - though I wouldn't claim it has disappeared completely.

[Mr Creosote]

20. I'm confused

So according to our highly moral, right-on, PC christian,government Madrid shouldn't hold the Olympics because Spanish people make monkey noises at black footballers. Well I can sort of see their point, but I reckon the sight of all those black athletes winning medals might enlighten the Spaniards. But why isn't our highly moral right-on PC christian government saying that New York shouldn't hold the Olympics because American people like to slaughter Iraqi women and children, and torture and execute defenceless prisoners?
Surely that's worse? Or is there a chapter in the bible that explains it all?

[agingdem]

10. Ever hear of something called...

the Spanish Inquisition?

[Blue_Tires]

12. which was about 520 years ago..

it's not like the waves are still rippling from that...

[demosincebirth]

13. The Spanish inquisitin had nothing to do with racism, mi amigo.

I was religious.

[T_i_B]

18. It WAS racial

Now there is no point in me even thinking of attempting to deny the religous part of it, but during the reign of Torquemada as high inquisitor it did indeed take on a very racial anti-semitic bent as well.

And even then we have had Franco quite recently. All the same I must admit I kinda expect better of the Spanish then that.

[demosincebirth]

22. No matter what you feel, it was religious persecution...

not racial.

[T_i_B]

24. I'm not denying that it was religious.

As you would have found out if you had actually bothered to read my post.

What I am saying is that it did develop a very nasty racial aspect too. Read up on Torquemada and you will find this out. During his reign as inquisitor it went all out on the anti-semitic front.

[whistle]

15. Since about 1492 when Columbus discovered the new world...

... for the Spaniards and they plundered and slaughtered the native Americans in Mexico and South America, then brought slaves to the colonies and plantations of the Caribbean. Spaniards from Spain are "white" and have created distinct class structures based on blood lines with pure white Spanish blood at the top and then mixtures of black, native Indians and even Asian decent in various percentages from there. I don't know of a single Latin American country that doesn't use this type of segregated gradation in the population except perhaps for Costa Rica and that may have changed since Negroponte got his fists into that part of the world. In Spain there are mixtures with Gypsy, Arabic and even Hebrew blood. The Spanish aristocracy and church has had a long history of this type of demarcation of class lines. A movie which I have not seen deals with this subject matter:

<snip>

Salvajes (2001)

Date: 8 March 2003
Summary: A great film showing the unseen racism in Spain

Salvajes is a brutally honest film about neo-nazi racism, drugs abuses, and violence in Spain. The anti-immigration sentiments of these young, white males lead to the destruction of the moral fibers of society. The harsh style of filmmaking uses gritty film and hand-held camera effect. It all seems very real and it was very easy to get drawn into the story. In the first scene of the film, the cinematography is amazing in showing the violence being inflicted on a young black man. The shots are not all complete, but it is a mélange of shots of confusion and pain in the dark. A very moving and powerful scene in the film-and it seems to just get better from there. The characters can be related to, some trying to hold onto the little they have, while others grasping for what is out of reach. The most enjoyable character for me was Eduardo, the cop, who mixes the harsh and soft perfectly. The ending of the film is very interesting, and makes one think, potentially giving another perspective to the film. This film is brave and exciting, and should be seen. One of the better films that I have ever seen. 10/10

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0295581/#comment

Also, anti-semetisim has been a problem in Spain for decades.

<link> http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2003-4/spain.htm

[non sociopath skin]

16. I guess we need to remember that Spain was a fascist country ...

... until not so long ago and a colonial one to boot. It may be that old habits take a while a-dying. And we have to remember that in fascist Spain (and Portugal) sports clubs were seen as a means of keeping youth on-message.

The Skin

[Briar]

17. Immigration

is part of the problem. A Spanish friend tells me that things are getting much worse as immigration rises up the political agenda, boosted (as ever) by the right, which finds it an easy and convenient way to gain and mobilise supporters.

[Blue_Tires]

21. yes, i'm aware of the backlash from

immigrants coming en masse from North Africa...I guess i didn't know it was that bad. Two (black) friends of mine have spent extensive time in Madrid, and they have had nothing but great things to say...And I was thinking about visiting sometime in the future...

[Blue_Tires]

23. Well the Spanish have issued an apology:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/4024433.stm

The Spanish Football Association has sent a letter to its English counterparts apologising for racist chanting during Wednesday's match.
The Spanish FA also apologised for similar incidents during Tuesday's Under-21 international.
"The FA welcomes the response and now looks forward to receiving details from Fifa on its investigation initiated on Thursday," said an FA statement.
The FA is awaiting Fifa's reply after sending them a dossier on the abuse.
The apology, written by general secretary Jorge P Arias, was in reply to a letter sent by the English FA.
However, the dossier sent to Fifa by the English FA highlights its concern at the lack of action so far taken against Spain manager Luis Aragones for his pre-match inflammatory remarks.

[geek tragedy]

25. They figured out that they were going to get slapped severely

by FiFA for denying the problem.

Madrid can forget about the Olympics.

[LibLabUK]

26. Hmm..

They're still going to get a symbolic kicking from FIFA for this. But had this happened in England, you can bet that English teams would have been banned from international competition for the next year or so.

I don't think it'll affect their Olympic bid, they're not going to get it, I'm pretty sure it was always going to go to either Paris or New York.

I can't believe Turkey is allowed to compete at all with the reception that they give all visiting teams to both international and european league matches.

[D-Notice]

27. Blackburn v Brum City

Following on from yesterday's taunts against Dwight Yorke...

Some of the stuff he received was justified (the stuff about him being lazy), but obviously the racist stuff wasn't (thankfully it was literally only a couple of people who were making them...)

According to this the racist taunts were by someone who wasn't even a Blackburn fan & he was ejected by the stewards straight away...

Of course with the fall-out from the Spain game, I'm expecting Rovers to be severely punished thanks to the action of some dickhead who'd rather make racist nioses than support the team.

What's worse is that we've even got black players playing for us - 1 of whom, Steven Reid, scored for us...

[Blue_Tires]

28. more trouble again!!!

this is saddening (up until now, i actually supported Real Madrid) Are Ronaldo, Roberto Carlos, etc not considered black or something?? I wonder how they feel about this?

UEFA wait on Real race reports

Real Madrid could be forced to play behind closed doors following more alleged racist chanting at the Bernabeu.

The Champions League 1-1 draw with Bayer Leverkusen last night was marred by abuse aimed at visiting defender Roque Junior.

UEFA will receive a report in the next 48 hours from officials at the stadium and the match referee before issuing any possible sanctions.

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3190884
--------------------------------------------------------
Real fear UEFA race rap
From ERIC BEAUCHAMP


Real Madrid 1 Bayer Leverkusen 1

REAL MADRID face a UEFA rap after fans made monkey noises at black players for the second time in a week.

UEFA boss Lenhart Johansson was at the Bernabeu and witnessed the racist abuse aimed at Leverkusen’s Brazilian defenders Roque Junior and Juan.

The abuse was not as widespread as the shocking scenes when England visited the ground.

Johansson refused to comment but UEFA is awaiting an official report on the game to determine whether Real will face charges.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002390000-2004542508,00.html
(with pic of skinheads??!)
------------------------------------------
MADRID, Nov 24 (Reuters) - Real Madrid have issued a statement condemning racist behaviour but say that they were unaware that any incidents had taken place in their Champions League match against Bayer Leverkusen.

"Real Madrid roundly condemns racist incidents of any type," the club said on its website.

"Real Madrid declares that if any incidents occurred during last night's Champions League game, they were so small that no one at the stadium or anyone at the club was aware they took place.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/breakingnews/feedstory/0,14546,-4635269,00.html