I learned a new reason why not to vote in the UK today

[sweetheart]

A young woman (late 20's) confessed today that she had never voted in a
UK election. Why? pray tell.

"Well, the flat where i stay does not pay council tax for my living there, and if i appear on the electoral roles living at an address
where the council tax is not paid for my head, then my roommate will
have to pay more tax, and we can't afford it."

Is this common? How much is the council tax today even, a regressive
poll tax?

[muriel_volestrangler]

1. That doesn't make it a poll tax

because a poll tax is a 'tax per head', just as a poll is a 'count of heads'. It's not a 'tax for voting'. It means that she thinks the council won't find out she lives at the address if she doesn't register to vote, and her flatmate is fraudulently signing the electoral register form and council tax declaration to get the single person discount; it is just another form of tax evasion, like not declaring cash income.

I expect this might be quite common; it depends on whether councils ever pay for other methods to work out if someone lives at an address (I don't know if credit agencies would give their data out in a form from which the councils could easily determine how many adults live at an address, for instance).

[sweetheart]

2. indirectly it does

I suspect that this is extremely common, and a significant contributor
to the disenfranchisement of young adults especially. As in life, it
is young adults who move around to new houses and with flatmates, settling
down increasingly in old age towards a static council tax billing
status. In youth, the changing addresses could oblige several landlords
over a year. As well, in youth, one has less money, and this means
squeezing finances a bit, so why upgrade a council tax bill if you don't
have to.

I'd wager that its a bunch of stupid reasons like the drugs war and
things like this that explain why younger adults are so put off by the
political "dialogue".

I don't see this as tax evasion. Something about the council tax on
poor persons is regressive. I'm actually suprised that labour has not
performed a comprehensive reform of the tax system ending the regressive
tax for an even more realistic progressive system than Mr. Brown's
current one (one that doesn't run up the credit card.)

[sweetheart]

3. maybe that explains why this:

I think Mr. HOon is right, and if america had done similarly it would
not be in this mess.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,17129-1816236,00.html

[mr blur]

4. I agree

My concern is that if turnout continues to fall requiring people to vote in a democratic election every four or five years does not seem to me to be a major attack on people’s civil liberties.

I'd have no problem with that.

[Greeby]

5. Yeah right

No incumbent government is gonna want compulsory voting in this country, least of all this one. Why? Coz if more people voted, somebody else would be in power :think:

[...of J.Temperance]

6. I will NEVER vote in Britain EVER again...PERIOD...UNLESS...

I've voted twice, I've been lied to and they ALL suck ass...'cept Gordon Brown of course, put Brown in No. 10 and I'll vote again.

[Apollo11]

7. Astounding ...

To think that 100 years ago this week 2 women were arrested and jailed for heckling a Liberal Party Conference in Manchester. They were asking the Party leadership if the Liberals would support the idea of allowing women the right to vote. It was an early example of direct action getting media attention for an issue.

And here we are 100 years later and people think it's big and clever to say they will never vote. Perhaps you would be happier if Hitler had been successful in invading Britain back in 1941? Then you would never have to bother with voting!

If you don't want to vote Labour then vote LibDem or Green or stand as an independent. But don't try and tell us that voting is a waste of time. It is a privilege that was won through centuries of struggle - never to be taken for granted.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

9. I'm afraid that I do think that voting is often a waste of time.

In most constituencies, there is no chance of voting making a difference. If you live in a safe seat, then

(Chance your vote will change the result of the election) x (amount of difference your MP being from one party rather than another will make)

Is almost certainly going to be less than the amount of good you could achieve by spending the hour or so voting would have taken you working in a soup kitchen, instead.

If there are T tory votes cast, and L potential labour voters who will each vote with probability p in the constituency, then the probability that your vote will change either a defeat into a draw or a draw into a victory is roughly

L!
--------- x p^T x (1-p)^(L-T) x 2
(L-T)! T!

This goes to zero almost exponentially fast as either L or L-T gets large. For example, if L = 2T, p = 1/2 (so not a safe seat at all, so voting should be more use than in most) then this is about 2^-T,
And given that T will be about 10000 on average, that's about 0.000 (3000 zeroes, give or take a few hundred ).. 001

Of course, all this is incredibly rough (modelling the number of Tory votes as a constant is nonsense, but it won't change the result much, for one thing), but the answer is probably on the right scale.

I vote anyhow, because I quite enjoy it, but it's not an efficient use of time if you want to make the world a better place. Write a letter to Amnesty instead.

[mr blur]

8. But how will you get Gordon in No. 10,

if you don't vote?

You do rather suggest that you'll bother to vote again if someone else sorts things out first.

[...of J.Temperance]

12. Well, prior to the next election IF

The mad hatter Blair has been thrown overboard, and Gordon Brown is ALREADY settled in Number 10, then I'll vote.

IF at the next election, the mad hatter Blair is STILL in, then mark my words he's NEVER leaving and he'll still be in when he's 70 and Blair has lied to me TWICE and thus I will NEVER for the SOB EVER again.

[RogueTrooper]

10. Whoever said theTories were stupid?

Thatcher disinfranchised a generation of working class votes with the poll tax.

[Guy_Montag]

11. I didn't pay council tax until I registered on the electoral register

I didn't plan it that way, it just sort of happened. I've been moving around a bit & if the council didn't ask for money, I wasn't going to offer.

It does happen all the time, I did it accidently, but I know of at least one couple where a student was the only one registered as living there, but his girlfriend also lived tin the place.

My suggestions are:

1) the landlord should be responsible for paying council tax, they can chase the tennants up for exemptions.
2) rather than official valuing your house (& that value remaining the same for years), I would have people pay %age of what they paid for the house. If you can afford 500,000 for a house then you can afford to pay a lot more than tax someone who can only afford 50,000 for a house, & if you're retired & living in the family home, chances are it cost 3000 in 1954 & so you pay about 3p a year. Everyone's a winner.