Tony Blair's dismal record on gay rights

[Brian_Expat]

With the failure of the CP bill in Parliament, my future with my partner is now in doubt if my employer folds before we meet the "two year rule."

He's tried to blame his failure on the Tory Lords, when their opposition was to be expected. Had he introduced the Bill in the Commons, it would have gone through without problems, but instead he half-heartedly presented it in the Lords.

Now, even Labour boosters claim the bill will take over two years to pass, which means as a foreigner, me and my partner will be separated if I lose my job in the UK. I cannot take him to the US because of the US's laws, and the "two year rule" requires cohabitation, which is quite impossible if I am not legally permitted to reside in the UK with him.

I am furious. My Labour MP tells me that there are "more important prioties," like bridges and roads and the economy.

I guess those priorities got "forgotten," however, when Blair rushed to support his buddy George W. Bush in the illegal war on false pretences in Iraq.

So a hearty "go to hell, Tony Blair" seems to be in order.

[aden_nak]

1. You know what's sad?

As much as Tony Blair sucks. . . I still feel ENVIOUS of the UK when I look at him standing next to Bush.

[Brian_Expat]

2. They're both pages from the same book

Unprincipled, power-hungry men with no scruples, ethics or morals. Blair just happens to be more intelligent.

[aden_nak]

3. Yeah, I know.

They are similar in many respects. I think that deep down, Blair KNEW what he was doing was sketchy, and had reservations. Bush never did. He also at least goes so far as to accept responsibility, but that may just be because he doesn't have the media on a leash in the UK.

[Pert_UK]

6. I disagree on a few points.......

Blair certainly is more intelligent, but I'm not sure about lacking scruples. IMHO the problem with Blair is that he genuinely believes that he's doing the right thing for the country. He has a pathological, dogmatic belief that he's doing the right thing a lot of the time, and is totally blind to the dishonesty and hypocrisy displayed by him and his party.

I feel that he sits at home at night saying, "I can't believe the public are against me - can't they see that I'm doing the right thing for them and the country?".

The thing that scares me is that Blair CAN'T SEE his own failings and is unwilling to consider that he might have been wrong on anything. Blair makes mistakes and implements policies that are immoral, impractical and outright hypocritical, but in his mind he's a crusader for the common good. If he could see himself through our eyes maybe he'd change his behaviour.

The difference between Blair and Bush is that Bush is deliberately misleading the world and acting dishonestly in the full knowledge that what he's doing is wrong. OK, he may also have some misplaced fundamental belief in the US's role as international policeman and rolemodel, but he's also cynically exploiting situations for his own good and that of his friends. I don't see Blair doing that - nobody (except the US) wins from Blair's errors and decisions, but Bush is out for himself.

[Djinn]

4. What would the situation be

if your partner was female Brian, does the two year rule still apply or would you just have to proove a relationship?

As for "go to hell, Tony Blair" - can't argue with that!

[LibLabUK]

5. Hmm

"if your partner was female Brian, does the two year rule still apply or would you just have to proove a relationship?"

Yep... is this a gay-rights issue or a general immigration issue?

What is the situation regarding naturalisation? Could you not apply for permanent residency or citizenship?

[Brian_Expat]

12. After four years, I can apply for "leave to remain"

Another year after that, citizenship.

Of course, individuals who are heterosexual and receive a marriage visa can apply for citizenship after THREE years rather than five -- another area of discrimination. :(

[Brian_Expat]

7. If my partner was female. . .

. . . I could get a "fiance visa." (My partner and I are planning to get married in Canada).

With a fiance visa, a non-British national need only announce INTENT to marry a UK citizen and he gets a visa.

With the "same sex concession," you have to live two years with your partner, something that's hard to do if you're not allowed to live in the UK since you're not a UK citizen. Whereas straight people get a visa simply for telling the authorities they INTEND to get married.

[LibLabUK]

8. Hmm.. does this not apply??

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1018721067257


How do I qualify to join my unmarried partner in the UK?

You and your unmarried partner must show that:

• any previous marriage, or similar relationship, has permanently broken down
  
• you have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for two years or more
  
• you have suitable accommodation which is owned or lived in only by you and your household, where you and your dependants can live without any help from public funds
  
• you can support yourselves and any dependants without any help from public funds
  
• you intend to live together permanently
  
• your partner is not under 18; and
  
• you are not under 16

The Entry Clearance Officer will need to see evidence of a two-year relationship. This may include documents showing joint commitments,for example bank accounts, investments, rent agreements or mortgages; letters linking you to the same address and official records of your address, such as your National Insurance card or health card.

At first you will be allowed to stay and work in the UK for two years. Near the end of this time, if you are still partners and still intend to live together, you can apply to stay in the UK permanently.

[Brian_Expat]

10. It applies. . .

. . . but it requires two years of physical co-habitation.

If I lose my job, my right to remain legally in the UK ends, so I cannot cohabitate for the two year period. The US government will not issue my partner a visa to cohabitate in the USA as well, since it's "against family policy."

If my partner was female, I could go down to the visa office today and tell them I want to get married, and they'd give me a visa just for saying that. Same sex couples, on the other hand, have to prove physical cohabitation for two years and the UK government will NOT grant a visa to permit that cohabitation to build up. In fact, the UK immigration authorities often forbid people from entering the country who are trying to build up time!

So if I lose my job before the two years is up, I am out of luck. I cannot get a marriage or fiance visa like a heterosexual can. :(

Even if I spent time with my partner on a tourist visa, I wouldn't be able to work until getting the visa. Meanwhile, a heterosexual couple who met on the street today could get a visa today. I could meet a woman on the street, announce my intention to marry her, take her to the visa office the same day, and get a visa. It's not fair.

[Djinn]

9. how about doing the marriage of convenience thing?

does the UK citizen need to live in the UK - if not you can say you're going marry me, my UK citizenship might as well be used for something other than the ability not to travel on an Australian passport (kind of scary these days!):evilgrin: Actually you might get a two for one deal there and be able to live here as well!

btw - did you want to apply for UK citizenship in the future or just residency, do you have to give up your American citizenship if you do?

[Brian_Expat]

11. Yes, the UK citizen would have to live in the UK or otherwise cohabit

I wouldn't defraud the system anyway, it's not the honest thing to do. It just makes me angry that they've erected such an impossible system for people. I know several binational couples who have had their long-term relationships of almost two years end because of this rule, when heterosexual couples can meet and a day after meeting for the first time get a visa.

I would probably apply for UK citizenship to keep my status in the UK with my partner clear. And no, you don't lose your US citizenship in applying for British citizenship if you did not have the intention of renouncing your US citizenship at the time.