A Congestion Charge for Trains? (article)

[Taxloss]

This is an article I have just written. Enjoy.

Excerpt:

The Association of Train Operating (in a vague sense) Companies, or ATOC, is proposing that commuters using the network at peak hours - all the time, then - will have to pay a surcharge above and beyond the price of their ticket.

ATOC? ATOSS more like, as in "We don't give ATOSS about the primary users of our service".

The perfectly balanced and not in the least deranged reasoning behind this monumentally stupid brainwave is that the railways leading into central London are overcrowded, so commuters must be deterred from using them. That's already complete lunacy if you consider that many commuters ARE deterred from using them by the fact that they are miserably overcrowded - your previous brilliant deterrent strategy is working, lads - and those who willingly fork out a king's ransom each year to complacent, larcenous and lazy train operating companies in order to have the privilege of spending two hours a day standing in a stifling metal box with their face wedged into the armpit of the sweat-drenched suit beside them are very probably likely a captive audience who take the train because they have no alternative.

So this isn't a charge intended to act as a deterrent. For many if not most commuters, it is a heavy tax of a necessary and vital service that they will simply have to shoulder.

The rest:

http://www.londonist.com/archives/2005/06/a_congestion_ch.php

[Guy_Montag]

1. This is the wrong way round

those who travel off peak should get a discount.

I seem to remember travelling into London on the first train from Cambridge - had to pay £25 or so because I was travelling before 0900, like 4 hours before 9am, it would have been £18 after. When I got there the carriage was maybe a quarter full.

I use this to illustrate 2 points:

1) People already have to pay more at "peak" times.
2) I'm sure people would change their travel times if you knew that you could save £5/£10/£15 by going into work early or late, I'm sure at least some of those who could would. I know these would tend to be those in white collar jobs, but that would make life easier on those who can't change their timings.

Much better would be to force the train companies to refund half the cost of the ticket of those who can't sit down on a train. Oh & allow train operating companies to buy their own engines & rolling stock.

[Briar]

2. As this writer points out

this will also deter even more people from using trains (they are already monumentally expensive - it's cheaper to fly to Scotland than take the train there) and put them back on the roads. Once again Bliar's claims to care about pollution and global warming are shown up to be no more than rhetorical flourishes.

Of course, he could intervene in the "free market" ("free" is so beautifully ironic) and use subsidies and regulations to prevent this. Will he? I wouldn't bet on it...

[Guy_Montag]

4. I find it idiotic that it's half the price to fly to the south of England

than get the train.

In fact while I'm on the rant, I cannot get anything but a full price train ticket to visit my girlfriend at the other end of the country, so I fly, it's cheaper & much quicker.

& why can I not buy an open return to Newcastle from Durham? Will someone please explain the lack of fucking logic round that one! It means I'm always running to get a ticket & get to the train after my flights. I fucking HATE you people that run the railways I HOPE YOU BURN IN HELL YOU ARE SCUM DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE.

*deep breaths*

sorry about that

[fedsron2us]

5. Welcome to the wacky world of railway economics

For those commuting any distance to central London there is really no other alternative form of transport available. So despite all the claims about privatisation creating competition on the railways nearly all the operating companies operate as virtual monopolies. One of the main reasons the trains currently entering the capital are so crowded is because many companies choose to run them 'short' in order to save on the cost of leasing extra rolling stock. Obviously in this situation any rise in passenger numbers will lead to congestion. However, in reality rail usage is only recovering back to the levels of the early 1960's. If the old 'inefficient' nationalised British Rail of the past was able to cope why can the supposedly more market orientated private companies not match them. I think that the truth is that, in the absence of any true competition, ATOC is simply attempting to manipulate the market against the public interest. Of course, this is exactly what Adam Smith predicted would happen in such circumstances over 200 years ago. The scumbags who run our country often like to claim that the grim Scottish economist as the source for all their barking policies, but of course very few of them have actually bothered to read him. The only good thing is that the press, including the right wing rags, have given this idea an almost unanimous thumbs down. I notice that Alistair Darling is already scuttling for cover on this issue. He is quoted in the Daily Telegraph as stating

"We can't price people off the trains and leave them with no options. That is not a transport policy."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/06/22/nrail22.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/06/22/ixportal.html

There are a lot of Labour MP's in and around London sitting on paper thin majorities who will need a another bust up over the railways like a hole in the head. Given that the government would have to approve any major changes to the fares structure this proposal is not likely to go anywhere.

[T_i_B]

3. Quick question for you

I must admit that I find this proposal monumentally stupid as well, but since you are in Central London Taxloss, what are your thoughts on the Congestion charge?

[Taxloss]

6. I find it a tremendous boon.

Even though I live right on the boundary, where congestion was expected to rise most dramatically, I have noticed the roads are much freer in the centre and there has been little impact on public transport (which is still miserably overcrowded, but no more so).

I don't drive, however.

[fedsron2us]

7. GNER find new way to ease train congestion

Lock your passengers up in a carriage at 110-120F until they start to expire. It will teach the buggers not to travel by train.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cambridgeshire/4125312.stm

[Pert_UK]

8. Nice work, Taxloss....

I can't tell you how angry I am about this fucking stupid idea....

OK, so you price people off the roads and into trains....
Then you try to price them off trains.....

Leaving aside the fact that most people who use these services have little or no choice, AND that they ALREADY pay extra for using peak services, exactly WHAT is the alternative?

Utter madness...

I tell you, if I didn't ride a donkey to work I'd be seriously pissed off....

[Taxloss]

9. Anyone who isn't insanely angry about public transport

is either not paying attention or is a tosspot. True fact.