Ted Heath has died.

[Taxloss]

I find myself unexpectedly saddened, as one is when a figure from one's childhood passes. I always admired his stands against Thatcher.

BBC Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4691051.stm

In pictures: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/4691111.stm

Edited to add links.

Poor old Ted. A nearly-man.

[Greeby]

1. ...............

I just saw the piece on BBC News. Where they showed an old interview where they asked him if on the day Thatcher was thrown out, he called his office and said "Rejoice, rejoice". He replied that he said it three times, and then a big grin spread over his face :toast:

[jfalchion]

2. Heath

was a fookin' Tory.

[Taxloss]

3. Certainly.

But he hated Thatcher and took us into Europe. And for my money that's worth paying heed to his passing.

[mr blur]

4. Well said! (nt)

[ikri]

5. Heath was an Old Tory

A Pre-Thatcher Tory, a very different breed to the scum called Tories now.

He was certainly to left of Blair politically and he detested what the Tory party turned into when Thatcher took over as leader.

His experience's from WWII and visiting pre-war Germany showed him that the best way to avoid conflict in Europe was to strengthen ties between nations (following the ideals of Churchill, something that the current Tories don't like to mention - their great leader was pro-Europe). He led us into the common market which has only helped the UK.

As much as I have an instant dislike for any member of the Tory party I can't help but feel that if he were entering politics today the last party he'd join would be the Tories.

[non sociopath skin]

6. Tony Benn did a touching tribute on Breakfast TV this morning .....

... in which he admitted that in the late 60s and early 70s Heath was probably more left-wing than he was!

Made you nostalgic for an era when politics was about different ways of running things, not about demonising and excluding other parties as the Antichrist.

The Skin

[T_i_B]

7. My first memory of the man...

...was of him appearing in a Cheese advert in the 1980's when I was little. Whenever this advert came on my very right-wing parents used to say all sorts of rude things about him!

Heath was despised by the right for his rampant Europhilia, for his perceived "U-turn" and his failures when taking on the Unions. Maybe it's just me but whenever I have heard people speaking of Ted heath they always have him down as one of the worst, if not the worst prime minister of the 20th Century.

His stance against Fascism, most noticeable in the Oxford by-election was indeed to be admired but that has been inevitably been overshadowed by his time as Prime Minister. He did do some good but I'm afraid I do think that history will not be kind to the man they called "Grocer" heath.

[LeftishBrit]

8. He was a lot better than many!

We've had a lot worse PMs in the 20th century, e.g. Chamberlain and most other pre-war PMs, Maggie T, and in my opinion Tony!

[T_i_B]

11. Most other pre-war PM's?

We've had a lot worse PMs in the 20th century, e.g. Chamberlain and most other pre-war PMs, Maggie T, and in my opinion Tony!

I'd have to disagree with you there. I think that the likes of Campbell-Bannerman, Asquith, Lloyd-George and even Baldwin were not bad PM's.

As to Heath compared to Thatcher and Blair? Well Thatcher did a lot of good for some people and a lot of bad for others, which means that opinion about her is still very divided. Heath's premiership on the other hand is remembered by both left and right as being bad.

As to Tony Blair? Well his foreign policy for the past few years has not been great but compare Tony Blair's record on the economy and industrial relations to that of Heath. You'd have to concede that most governments have done better on those fronts then Heath's government did.

[LeftishBrit]

13. Most, not all..

I would certainly exempt Asquith and especially Lloyd George from my strictures. I don't know enough about Campbell-Bannerman to comment. However, I would definitely regard Chamberlain, Baldwin, Bonar Law and Macdonald as bad PMs.

Blair is in my opinion bad on many aspects of domestic policy as well as foreign policy. He IS relatively good on the economy (or, rather, Gordon Brown is); and he has been more successful on industrial relations than Heath or Callaghan - though that may be partly because trade unions have less influence in the past. This reduced influence is partly due to changes in the types of jobs that people are doing (more 'middle-class' and more casual at the same time); and partly because Thatcher ran over the unions with her steam-roller. But Blair has allowed managerialism to run amok; put excessive emphasis on meeting administrative 'targets', which , especially in the health service, has led to some very unfortunate consequences; pursued some disastrous policies on education; acted in an extremely mean-spirited way towards people with disabilities; moved toward the creation of a 'Big Brother' state with compulsory ID cards, etc.; and allowed "Daily Mail" types to drive policies toward asylum-seekers, to the point of sending people back to Zimbabwe despute the well-publicized disastrous situation there.

Re the difference between Heath and Thatcher: it is true that virtually no one would regard Heath as a *great* Prime Minister, while some people, though an increasingly small minority, do regard Thatcher in this way. However, I do think that Thatcher did a great deal more active, and virtually irreversible, *harm* to the country than Heath - or most other PMs for that matter.

[T_i_B]

14. No there are quite a few people about...

...who regard Thatcher as a very good PM. Indeed it is noticable that quite a lot of people will grudgingly admit that she did some good with things like union reform as well, even if they don't like a lot of the other things she did.

One thing you do tend to find with Thatcher though, is that opinion on her is more polarized then for just about any other British politician. Half the people you come across even now will fly into a rage at the mere mention of her name and the other half will start waxing lyrical about what a strong leader she was.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

9. I think there have been much worser post-war governments than Heath's

We all know about Mrs Thatcher. The government "that saved Britain" according to The Times, Daily Mail et al brought us the 1981-83 recession, the 1987-88 recession and contributed to the 1991-93 recession.

[cheeseit]

10. I'd say he was a mediocre PM

He pretty much ran out of ideas after abandoning Selsdon Man, other than taking us into the EEC of course. But he was certainly a far better Prime Minister than Thatcher and Major, imo (not to mention Chamberlain, Balfour, Eden...). Heath's reputation suffers because he didn't make any real radical changes- leaders who make radical change will always be lionised in some quarters, even if, like Thatcher, their changes completely fuck the country up.

[demobrit]

12. Ted Heath has died

Ted Heath has been underated ,He was a man of many talents , from the old political guard .
He was trustworthy , not something you could say for most Politicians today .
He will be remembered as the Man who took us into Europe.

[Mr Creosote]

15. This is really uncalled for

"Ex-prime ministers Baroness Thatcher and Sir John Major were among prominent politicians paying tribute at the funeral of Sir Edward Heath."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4713911.stm

but may well be the first instance of a corpse turning BEFORE it even gets to the grave.

[Kipling]

16. What!?

That's an insult. That's like wearing a clown suit to any normal man's funeral. Heath was a bit bumbling and traditionalist (according to my parents) but still, he doesn't deserve that.

And when the FUCK was John Major given a knighthood?

[Benbow]

17. John Major was made a Knight of the Garter earlier in 2005

http://www.politics.co.uk/domestic-policy/john-major-receives-knight-garter-$13028807.htm
http://www.heraldicsculptor.com/Garters.html

I am not a Tory voter but I bet that Major would not have had the UK invade Iraq, against the advice of all the intelligence and diplomatic experts.

[LeftishBrit]

18. I think Maggie is the last person he'd have wanted there!

I half-expected him to jump out of the grave and give her a good kick!!

I suppose it would normally be expected for an ex-PM to go to another ex-PM's funeral, but in this case it seems more disrespectful for her to go than not go.