Interesting thread on BBC R4 message board about Islam

[Benbow]

Several topics there are worth a visit, including this one "IS ISLAM INHERENTLY VIOLENT?"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-perl/h2/h2.cgi?thread=%3Cmod.1122120897-8968.29%40forum0.thdo.bbc.co.uk%3E&find=%3Cmod.1122120897-8968.29%40forum0.thdo.bbc.co.uk%3E&board=today.3&sort=Te

(I post there as stormypetrel.)

Did anyone else hear the Muslim on R4 "Any Answers?" last Saturday saying that part of the problem is that Islam has not yet reconciled tradition with modernity? Interesting observation, I thought.

[evermind]

1. So.. what do you think, Benbow? Is "islam inherently violent"? (n/t)

[eallen]

2. Fundamentalist Christianity has not yet reconciled with modernity.

In some ways, one can define fundamentalist religion precisely as the strain that rejects modernity. Fundamentalist Islam is not unique in that regard.

[Lithos]

3. That is incorrect

This is a common misconception and fallacy. First it assumes Islam is a monolithic belief which it is not. Also it's not Islam, but rather specific groups within changing cultures which have had issues reconciling modernity with tradition. They are the ones who have sought out reactive strains such as Wahabbism and not more modern forms of Islam which other cultures have done.

You can see something very similar here in the US where people who cannot cope with the changing society post 1964 have retrogressed back to a more idealized form of the 1950's or even 1930's where they have accepted what were never for the period considered mainstream religious and cultural beliefs. (The majority of the US were either Catholic or mainstream Protestant - Evangelical beliefs were generally considered by the mass populace as bizarre, uncouth, and ignorant).

The other piece that they also omit is that the US was much more socialist at that point in time than it is today. The New Deal was not as watered down, unions had more power, and society was still relatively mobile.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftishBrit]

5. All fundamentalist religion is scary!

I know a lot of Moslem women who do not see themselves as 'men's tools' in the least. They are mostly university students and researchers, so by definition not from the most repressive backgrounds. But I think one would find Christianity pretty 'scary' if one judged by the more repressive forms - ever been on James Dobson's "Focus on the Family" website? - SCARY SCARY SCARY!!! And I have some distant Jewish relatives who belong to a weird (from my point of view) sect, where the women are expected to have as many children as possible, and end up raising 11 or 12 kids virtually single-handed while dad spends all his free time studying the Bible and Talmud.

I think religion is great, just not when combined with the attitude that all social reforms since Jurassic times are a horrible sin to be resisted.

[LeftishBrit]

6. I think this article gives an interesting perspective

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1072-1707228,00.html

In today's "Times"; by a young Moslem. Not being Moslem myself, I can't say how accurate the article is; but it certainly gives food for thought.

[southlandshari]

7. Excellent, excellent op-ed.

Thanks for sharing that. I lived and worked in the Middle East for several years, and have been married to a Muslim for more than a decade. And he could have written that article himself. I'm downloading it and saving it for him. There are millions of others that feel like this, and it is good to read rallying cries to work together to change the face of Islam like the one at the link.

:D

[Mr Creosote]

8. Fascinating

"But the Beeston area of Leeds is also the home of Faith Together, one of the most innovative community organisations in Britain. It is an interfaith network drawing in regeneration funding to provide facilities and services for the residents of a deprived multi-faith and multi-ethnic community"

What about the deprived atheists of whatever ethnicity? Don't they count?