BBC2 : The New Al-Qaeda

[CJCRANE]

"In the aftermath of 9/11 and the US-led invasion of Afghanistan much of al-Qaeda's infrastructure including its training camps were destroyed. Peter Taylor's three part series examines the new al-Qaeda which has emerged and the threat it poses to the West. The first part, jihad.com explores how the internet has become the lifeblood of the new al-Qaeda".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/4683403.stm

Very interesting programme (first one just finished). Saved the best comment until last, an American intelligence expert who said that America is losing because no mainstream politician has admitted that the jihadis fight is against American policies not way of life.

[D-Notice]

1. You mean

they don't "hate our freedoms"?

You're helping the terrorists win with those sort of ideas!

I didn't see the programme. Anyone know if it's going to be repeated?

[CJCRANE]

2. In fact

some of the muslim fundamentalists in the UK seem to like the freedom of speech here a little too much.

[bennywhale]

3. I found it very interesting. The judgements of many who were more

expert than me in the area was worrying, as was the footage of the extremists raiding mosques in Britain.

The threat is becoming more dispirate and widespread and that is rather frightening.

I also noticed the reference to us now is America's cousin, or Lackey, or servant. The front of the propaganda and conspiracy books and websites now include the Union Jack as well as Israel's flag and the Stars and stripes.

This did not used to be the case did it Tony, i wonder what has happened in the interim.

THEY HATE US FOR OUR ELECTORAL SYSTEM SORRY ER DEMOCRACY (psst they just attacked egypt) EER THEY'RE MAD THEY'RE MAD THEY HAVE NO MOTIVE EXCEPT CHAOS, DON'T WORRY TRUST US WE'LL PROTECT YOU.

[CJCRANE]

4. Yes

it's somewhat maddening that the fundamentalists don't differentiate between the government and the people. But then again, they're outlaws, they're not accountable to anyone (Al-Qaeda that is).

[Mr Creosote]

6. At the recent General Election

how many of us voted for anti-war parties. Around about 20% I guess without looking it up. Not exactly a vigorous condemnation of the crusade, so one can see why they might not differentiate. And of course Blair and the rest of his murderous gang are not easy targets.

[D-Notice]

7. A similar

percentage to who voted for Labour...

[ikri]

8. The general election

Wasn't a referendum on the war.

If it had been I'd expect to see 70-80% against the war.

It was an election to determine the direction of the country for the next few years:- Continue the Labour policies (some good, some bad) or go back to the Tories.

[Mr Creosote]

10. Agreed

and you may well be right. But does it not show that the overwhelming majority of that 70-80% didn't consider the illegal war a significant enough issue to get them to change their vote, or even get them out to vote in many cases? In which case they might have got a wake up call this month. Did we really expect that we could wage an illegal war, based on lie after lie after lie, and that there wouldn't be consequences? Blair was on yesterday about how the war hadn't created any new extremists. How stupid can he be? If we carry on like this we'll just create generation after generation of extremists.

[fedsron2us]

5. Islamic militants and some western governments

are engaged in an obscene dance of death. In reality they need each other to justify their existence. Without Al Qaeda Bush would probably never have been able to persuade the American people to back the invasion of Iraq. Similarly, the Muslim radicals depend on the USA's clod hopping aggressive foreign policy to supply them with the constant flow of alienated individuals who are willing to martyr themselves for the cause.

For all their hatred of the west, the jihadist groups would simply find it impossible to operate without technical aids such as the internet, satellite communications and the free movement of peoples in a globalised economy.These things are essentially the products of the civilisation which they claim to despise. What worries me is that the deluded young Muslims in the UK and elsewhere who turn to terrorism do not seem to realise that they may be leading their communities down a very dangerous road. The demons that haunt European civilisation were defeated in the Second World War but they were not destroyed. Events in the Balkans during the 1990s offer just a hint of what might happen if they were to be let loose again.

[non sociopath skin]

9. And of course, there's the sinister cultural symbiosis ...

... many of the Muslim Fundie and Christian Fundies' betes noirs are the same ... gays, "promiscuity", immodesty, cultural freedom are targets for both sets of jihadists and the kind of Shining City on a Hill which Bush's redneck God-botherers and bible -thumpers yearn for wouldn't feel much different from an "islamic Republic."

The Skin

[LeftishBrit]

12. Exactly!

I have read denunciations of godless social liberalism on Focus on the Family, Christian Voice, and IslamOnline, which were so similar one REALLY couldn't tell the difference.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

11. Tonight's is about Pakistan

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/4697715.stm

& also tonight, on Channel 4 is "Why Bomb London?"

Why Bomb London examines the forces and influences that may have combined to make the recent bomb attacks on London more likely. The programme analyses whether a series of foreign policy decisions and domestic errors – social and political – made the transport bombings not so much a surprise as an inevitability.

http://www.channel4.com/news/microsites/W/why_bomb_london/

[fedsron2us]

13. Watch the program then read Chalmers Johnson's 'Blowback'

You will then find out that much of the current situation can be traced directly back to US and British foreign policy decisions in the 1980's. Pakistan used to be on the front line in the cold war when Reagan was backing the Muhajadeen against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. The current world wide radical Islamic movements would probably never have got off the ground if they had not been initially funded, trained and armed by the west. Iraq has helped stoke the fires but the source of our current woes goes way back beyond the blunders of the current Bush and Blair administrations.