The power of nightmares

[LibLabUK]

Anyone watch the first episode on BBC2 tonight?

What did you think?

I was suprised at how much power the PNAC guys have had over the past 30 years, and the lengths that they've gone to to manipulate the US, the whole propaganda and false intelligence they ran against the USSR is quite chilling.

[ben_packard]

1. excellent programme

and you could almost keep the commentary over the top of pictures of the war on terror TM. There seems to be an enormous parallel between implying that all terrorism (even IRA) was linked to the SU in the same way that the neo cons have succeeded in taking a variety of worldwide islamic terrorism cells and implying they have a 'leader' in bin laden and an overall chain of command. At best, they share a broad similar motivation but thats about it. Always with the evil empires...

[non sociopath skin]

2. I missed it dammit. Damn bus home was late.

Sounded excellent. Hope it'll be repeated.

The Skin

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. I haven't heard about repeats

though it might turn up as one of the middle-of-the-night repeats with sign language, I suppose. I'd ask around if anyone you knew taped it, if I were you. Definitely worth watching.

I'd never heard of 'Team B' before, but here it is on disinfopedia, complete with the same names that turn up today, and almost exactly the same as the Office of Special Plans - if the CIA won't tell us we're in immediate danger, we'll damn well invent our own teams to do it. And notice that, though I don't think they mentioned it in the documentary, G.H.W. Bush was the head of the CIA at the time.

As well as the paranoia of claiming that if you couldn't find a Soviet threat, that meant it was a really sneaky one they'd hidden so well (more shades of Iraq), there was the black comedy of the CIA planting black propaganda about the control of all terrorists by the Soviet Union, and then the operatives being unable to persuade Casey, their new director, that it wasn't really true, so Reagan really did start to believe the Soviets were about to take over the world.

Again, there are parallels to Iraq (Chalabi etc.). But I also wonder if the CIA is claiming more wisdom now than it really had, to cover its arse; and the claims of the neoconservatives to still really believe the world was under threat, and that they wanted to spread democracy, have to be taken with a bucket of salt - since the Straussian doctrine is to lie to the people whenever that gives you control over a more stable society, they'd say anything to get an advantage.

[Briar]

16. The Shadows in the Cave

Click here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/3973195.stm

for comments posted to the BBC website about last night's dazzling conclusion.

[Pert_UK]

3. Nice to see that Rumsfeld et al. have been misleading the world...

consistently for over 30 years.

I couldn't believe that he could actually appear at press conferences and make claims that were not only baseless, but actually contradicted by all the evidence provided to him by his own sources......

Essentially, the neoCons were / are so obsessed with external terror threats (from Russia & now Islamic fundamentalism) that nothing will convince them that their fears are unjustified.

It stunned me that any evidence that proved/implied that Russia wasn't re-arming and didn't have the ability to track US subs, was used by neoCons to prove quite the opposite - "If it looks like they're not doing it then they MUST be doing it, only secretly and with advanced technology we can't detect."

Talk about insane paranoia.....

I posted a note about this in GD just on the offchance that it appears on cable in the US. Feel free to add your comments in there and promote this worthwhile remedy to a climate of fear.

Mr P.

[Briar]

4. Fantastic

Absolutely required viewing. Blows the deceptions at the core of US foreign policy for the last three or four decades wide open!

Here's where the Guardian reviews it:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv_and_radio/story/0,3604,1331957,00.html

[Pert_UK]

6. Discussion going on in GD now.....link included:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2520043#2520400

I've emailed the BBC to see if they're going to show it in the States, or if they've sold it to a US network.

Thanks to Briar for pointing out the Guardian review.

P.

[LibLabUK]

7. Hmm..

"I've emailed the BBC to see if they're going to show it in the States, "

It might be on the peer-to-peer filesharing networks as we speak... I'll have a look when I get home.

[Pert_UK]

8. Any joy? Re: the programme or life in general?

P.

[LibLabUK]

12. Nope :(

Unfortunately, despite multiple searches I can't find a copy of it on the P2P networks... however, it may still appear so I'll keep looking.

[Pert_UK]

14. Somebody posted a link to it in GD......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2536335#2540734

P.

[T_i_B]

9. Good programme

The thing that interests me though, is the appaling concept of "nessesary illusions" that was mentioned. essentially it would seem that it is a neo-con point of ideology to lie to the people they are supposed to be serving.

Now the lies might be quite apparent now, but I would have to research this a bit more, for if they really do belive in creating "nessessary illusions" then this is something that should be given as much publicity as possible.

No country deserves pathalogical liars as leaders, and ironically the lies they spew probbably do more damage then anything to the institutions the lies are supposed to help.

[Pert_UK]

10. Update from the BBC:

Can be found on this post here in this place:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2536335

[Briar]

11. The Exorcist

An article about Adam Curtis, maker of The Power of Nightmares can be found here:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,6903,1334518,00.html

Adam Curtis likes a challenge. Eighteen months ago he proposed a new series of documentary films for the BBC. The films, he explained to his bosses, would be about the philosophical ideas behind conservatism. As a pitch, he concedes, it was 'about the dullest of all subjects you can imagine'. In these days of docusoaps and reality stunts it says just about everything you need to know
about Curtis's brilliance as a filmmaker that he was commissioned to make the series at all. The BBC's faith has been more than rewarded, however, by The Power of Nightmares , the first part of which went out on Wednesday.

Curtis's original idea led him in typically unexpected directions. In particular, to developing a fearful symmetry between American neoconservative thought and Islamic fundamentalism. In looking back he discovered that the progenitors of each of these movements - the American political philosopher Leo Strauss, and the Egyptian revolutionary Sayyid Qutb - had been responding to similar observations. They had both been at American universities just
after the Second World War - Strauss as a professor, Qutb as a student - and what they had seen there had convinced them that within American prosperity lay the seeds of its moral destruction.

'Everyone was thinking Truman's America is great and these two completely obscure figures were looking at it, in 1949, and thinking no, there is something wrong with this; they were both pessimists. We now live in a world that is shaped partly by the results of their thinking.'


From this beginning, Curtis went on to deconstruct the ways in which the governments of America and Britain in particular had seized upon fear as a way of connecting with their population, and presents the war on terror as a product of this thinking. 'What I am saying,' he says, 'is that I don't think al-Qaeda exists in the way that we have been asked to understand it. There are awful atrocities, of course, and there is militant Islamic fundamentalism. But the idea of a global network of terror run by Osama bin Laden, unique in its threat, which we have been told about for three years now is, I believe, a myth. I have backed this belief up with ideas that I think show the reasons why this myth has been created.'

[LibLabUK]

13. It is available on WinMX.

Downloading it now... 350MB.

[Fish08]

15. Continues tonight at 9

Just a reminder that this excellent series continues tonight. Its a shame its not showing in the US it would be very interesting to see what type of response it would get.

[Briar]

17. Another site

http://silt3.com/index.php?id=572

This site has transcripts of the programmes, and allows you to watch them as well.

It's vital that its message gets out - we are being lied to in order to manipulate us.

[Briar]

18. Repeat of "Power of Nightmares" on BBC2

I just received this email:

=Power of Nightmares: BBC Two repeat
=You have received this email because you previously requested information about the programme.

There is another chance to see the documentary series, The Power of Nightmares which is being broadcast over three nights, Tuesday 18th to Thursday 20th January 2005 at 11.20pm on BBC Two.

Many viewers requested a copy of the programme. Unfortunately, because of the large and complex amount of archive and music in the series there are no immediate plans to release the programmes on DVD or video. We are very keen that the programmes are made widely available including in America and although the main networks have shown little interest we are confident that the programmes will be shown in some form. There are however no plans for a book or that the BBC should publish transcripts in addition to the unofficial ones already existing on the internet.

Around 2,000 emails were sent to the BBC after the programme and the series producer, Adam Curtis has written an article in response to many of the issues raised in these which you may be interested in reading.

Any future information on the availability of the programme will also be posted on this page.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4171213.stm


=Power of Nightmares: BBC Two repeat
Part 1: Baby It's Cold Outside: Tuesday 18 January 11.20pm
Part 2: The Phantom Victory: Wednesday 19 January 11.20pm
Part 3: The Shadows in the Cave: Tuesday 18 January 11.20pm

[sweetheart]

19. Yes, jues saw it

What an impressive series.... this will never air on "MSM" in the US
as it pretty much puts rumsfied, cheney, wolfowitz and the other
neocons in the same pot with the qutb and osama bin laden for their
mutual antagonism to democracy and truth, rather their preference
for misdirection, lies and outright fabrication to authorize war and
cultural hatred. I have to go over to a neighbors to watch TV as
mine's disconnected... and its worth it... i'll see the next 2
definitely.

[Briar]

20. It's just as powerful the second time round

I can't believe the BBC won't issue Curtis' work in more durable form.

[sweetheart]

21. saw the second episode... most salient part:

Was when they had the war against clinton, with more lies, as if these
neocons have now started 3 wars with pure fabrication... cold war,
clinton lies, and iraq... WOW... and they let them get away with it.

As well, there is some footage of richard pearle telling the soviet
spokesperson (before the USSR collapse) to get the hell out of afganistan
and that the soviet presence was the problem... to let the islamist
jihadi's take over... must hurt to eat your own words, eh richard assswipe?
... how about some dead flag draped coffin soup you f**king asshole.

You know, it might not be legal, but these neocons are the most evil
SOB's on the planet, and if you gave me a nuclear bomb in the middle of
the lot of them, i'd happily detonate it, calling my own life a sacrifice
to defend the constitution.

[rman]

24. bombing them wouldn't be a solution

The problem is that people are susceptible to mass deception.
As long as that's the case there will be people who abuse this weakness of society.

[sweetheart]

25. So we should then expect hitler to rise from the dead every 50 years?

It seems that is the net result then... for the fascists to simply
move and regroup whilst the people are susceptible in the latest
place of ignorance.

Granted, violence perhaps is not a solution, but then, oh dear...
what is.

[rman]

26. Yes, untill the people become aware of the power game,

and stop assuming politicians don't tell Big Lies.

So, that's the solution: for the people to become aware.

[Briar]

27. How can the people become aware

when the media constantly help administrations to sell their version of "reality"? The BBC may have had the guts to broadcast The Power of Nightmares, but they also broadcast a panic-inducing blend of speculation and drama about dirty bombs, and are currently presenting the farce in Iraq as the bringing of democracy to an oppressed people. Thus they are aiding Bush and Bliar to write the first draft of history in a way that vindicates their illegal war.

[rman]

28. two main roads, i think:

One is that circumstances are very likely to become very bad for a majority of people due to economic collapse compounded by the end of the oil age. That will probably cause many people to realize they've been lied to all along by their respective governments.
The other road is for us to be our own media. This will be small scale for the most part, but many small scale initiatives can make a difference.

Which brings me to another point. There are - now more then ever before - many local initiatives that oppose certain aspects of government activity. Ie environmental protection, anti-war movements, anti-capitalist exploitation movements, public owned local media, women's rights movements, etc. This is a global phenomena. Such movements usually are focused on particular and mostly local issues, but they all are anti-establishment and wrt basic principals there is a lot of common ground between these movements, even though those principals are usually not formalized.
At the same time there appears to be a lack of centralization of such movements - which i think is a good thing because it makes it very hard to manipulate this fragmented progressivism by the big powers that would have an interest in manipulating it, as there is no central command that can be corrupted.

It's the good old wisdom "power corrupts". The more power is centralized and concentrated, the stronger it becomes, the more easily it is corrupted and the more disastrous the consequences (and the more rewarding it is to corrupt it for those who have an interest in doing so).
It seems to me that everywhere people are becoming aware of this. Perhaps not always consciously, but both at the Left and the Right many 'ordinary people' have become rather skeptical about the media and about government. This is true even for many Bush supporters; Bush has managed to convince them he will be fighting the elite establishment on their behalf.

wrt to the BBC:
It is a valuable media outlet and "The power of nightmares" is an informative documentary. But the BBC to is part of the propaganda system. They speak much truth, but not all of it. Ie "The power of nightmares" entirely leaves out the role of the media in contributing to create this 'age of nightmares' and the links between the media, corporations and governments.
In the context of propaganda the BBC serves to lend credibility to a certain relatively moderate lefty/progressive viewpoint, which helps a significant part of leftist popular opinion to gravitate towards that particular view, thus reducing a gravitation towards even more progressive viewpoints.


"Any of you who are active in groups, small groups or large groups - know that there is just a natural tendency that you have to resist, towards centralisation of control and authority.
There are going to be certain people who are interested and willing to take on responsibilities and make decisions. Others are busy, not interested enough. And groups can tend towards highly authoritarian, bureaucratic control. Those are tendencies that you've got to be aware of and overcome."
- Noam Chomsky, speaking at the "Another world is possible" movement in Budapest, Hungary
www.chomsky.info

[Briar]

22. It's uncanny

how well Adam Curtis understands his subject. Here we are on Inauguration Day (I wish the BBC wouldn't give it so much time and breathless admiration) and Bush is telling his Straussian Noble Lies about fighting evil and spreading Freedom and Democracy. Meanwhile, Iraqis continue to experience the reality of Freedom and Democracy as spread by military aggression in the service of the PNAC plan for American global dominance...

[sweetheart]

23. The third episode

The whole attempt to claim that al queda is anything more than a coupla
guys is completely contrived. This the episode makes very clear... so
that politicians are using the concept to create fear for their own
adgendas of staying re-elected and starting mass murders (wars).

The attempt to prosecute those kids in buffalo, NY, on evidence of a
video of them having fun at disneyland was pathetic. The entire attempt
to frame people in to being "al queda" cells, and to screw them legally
when there was and never has been any evidence is really spooky.

That they've also shifted the concept in law to "what you might do"
instead of something you've done, is new and horrific, as only the most
dramtic and horrific allegations win the airwaves. In this regard, the
show is true to its name "the power of nightmares". It is showing how,
in a world when the only evidence is what you "might" do, the person
with the most evil nightmares is the king... and around him form a
clergy of those with the most vile nightmares. (rumsfeld, cheney,
woofiwitz, et. al.)

There is no way, after watching that series, to accept that the bush
criminals (and blair) do anything but spread foul lies to protect their
asss
and to elevate their political power. That is the conclusion of the
episodes... and it is impeccably proven.