Anyone here work in IT?

[ben_packard]

I've compiled a list of the prominent IT recruiters in the UK looking for my first post-graduation position, but most of these run graduate schemes that don't begin until next september and are now closed for this year. I'm trying to find out about a few more smaller IT companies (or companies with IT departments) that I can send a CV to. Background: I graduated with a 1st in Computing, specialising in software engineering and would ideally like to work in programming, web development, etc (though quite frankly would consider anything about now!).

Any ideas?

[lvx35]

1. First jobs out of college all nepotism.

At least to my experience here in the US. It really helps to have an in. Without one, I would consider taking anything that looks good on a resume, even if you have to volunteer for a non-profit while working part time at something else. After about a year, you will be a LOT more employable...Or at least this is how its been for all my friends who have made it in IT here.

[wli]

3. same here, I had to call in favors myself n/t

[fedsron2us]

2. It has been my racket for the past fifteen years.

If you are interested in the technical side of IT then my advice would be to steer clear of the pure outsourcing companies such as EDS, Accenture, Cap Gemini etc. I have worked for a couple of these firms and my experience is that management and consultants rule the roost while software engineers are treated like dirt. They also tend to be very bureaucratic as all the relationships with the people for who you are building systems are mediated through very complex commercial contracts. Although these companies claim to be professional IT businesses you will find that they are incredibly poor at obtaining proper specifications from their customers, carrying out systems analysis and designing applications . It is no accident that their names crop up again and again in the press whenever there has been a major computing fiasco. Sadly, because of the aggressive marketing activities by the outsourcers in house IT departments have become less common. Nonetheless, you can still find smaller firms and local government authorities who simply do not have the money to employ these charlatans so they have to run their systems themselves. In these circumstances you might actually find you get more training and a wider variety of responsibilites than you would with a bigger concern. As your employer is also your customer you may find that you have more influence over how software projects are implemented. Alternatively, you could try and get a job with a software house with a harder technical edge such as SAP, Oracle etc. Normally this ties you in with a particular software product which can be limiting but it does have the advantage that you can market your specialist skill to other employers at a later date.

[lvx35]

4. hehe. My brother was a consultant for Cap Gemini

I asked him once what he was doing, he told me he was head of a team of Java developers. I expressed suprise that he had been able to learn about Java so fast, because he didn't used to know the first thing about programming. He told me he didn't know anything about Java or programming still. Yet as he talked, I found out he was making all kinds of decisions which directly affected the way the thing was programmed. It was sounded absolutely surreal.

[fedsron2us]

5. No surprises there

Cap Gemini are the pits when it comes to software development. They manage the impossible feat of making the dire EDS look like a world class professional IT outfit. CapGemini get plenty name checks in David Craig's highly recommended book, 'Rip-Off:The Scandalous Inside Story Of The Management Making Money Machine'. In particular he outlines how they paid approximately $1 million dollars per consultant in their take over Ernst & Young's consultancy arm before finding it had no work for them to do. The business then went into financial meltdown and had to lay off in droves many of the people it had engaged at vast cost. In order to give you an idea of the size of this calamitous decision it is worth mentioning that IBM were paying a mere $100,000 per consultant in their buyout of PriceWaterHouse which many industry insiders still thought was too much. Given Cap Gemini's complete inability to even run their own finances properly you would have thought no one in their right mind would want to engage their services. Unfortunately, the British government in their infinite wisdom decided that they were suitable people to take over the running of the Inland Revenue's computers from the hapless EDS. It can only be a matter of time before they are garnering press headlines for some expensive IT fiasco's that will leave their predecessors in the shade. If the UK taxpayer really knew the extent top which these imbeciles were frittering away billions of pounds of their hard earned money on useless software projects then there would be a revolution.

[evermind]

6. When I read your statement: "making EDS look like a world class

professional IT outfit", I immediately thought: I bet UK gov will be contracting them soon, then.. Amusing to see they already have!

As surely as night follows day, large scale government funded computing projects are colossal farces, it seems. EDS stories have been gracing the pages of Private Eye for a decade or more, now, IIRC.

[fedsron2us]

7. Private Eye only give you a taste of the insanity

Believe me the reality is much, much worse. Public sector IT has never been perfect but 15-20 years ago it was run in a reasonably honest, professional manner by people who had some modicum of technical training and skill. Now it is just one huge gravy train for the outsourcing and consulting companies. When I described the business as a racket I do not use the term lightly. At times it bears more than a passing resemblence to the sort of operations Al Capone ran in Chicago. The only real difference I can see is that Big Al was far more competent, treated his employees more humanely and gave his customers better value for money.

[evermind]

9. I once knew someone who worked in bigtime IT

... and he told me that a certain consulting group, known to him as "The Androids" :-), actually received formal training in pumping information out of their clients (I mean damaging inside and personal information) so it could be passed on and used to lever even more money out of them later..

I've only been peripherally exposed to the effects of consultancy myself, but I find your account entirely believable!

[sweetheart]

8. Do you mean the "IT" girl Tara Palminkinson ??

Working in her could be kinda fun depending on your sexual pursuasion.

But, i've only seen her on colour glossy photos, and can't vounch for
whether "IT" feels good to work in. ;-)

IT has ceased to be a separate discipline from business vertical niches.
Best, to gain street cred and pay, to specialize in a vertical
discipline as well, such as accountancy AND IT, or numerical machining
and IT, or turbine design AND IT.... the niche is best for vertical
skills provided you find some that are not migrating offshore.

[ben_packard]

10. That's exactly my problem...

My job searching so far has all confirmed this. It seems that I can spend 3 years learning to programme properly and elegantly and become a project manager if i'm lucky. There's a reason I didn't do a business degree (I don't particularly enjoy it and it doesn't matche my skills) and it's discouraging that there's nothing available at the end of it 12 months after graduating (though I read I have that in common with 54% of graduate according to the BBC). I've already decided that I'll pretty much settle for anything in IT now, and will most likely end up doing call centre IT support if i'm lucky. Still, only 40 years till I can retire completely unfulfilled :(

Nonetheless, thanks for the advice guys

[fedsron2us]

11. Do n't be too disheartened

Being a good programmer is a real plus. Despite all the garbage that you read in the computer press suggesting that any monkey can build and implement an IT system, good technicians are in short supply. The business is full of chancers, bull-shitters and other con artists who blag their way onto projects Many talk a good story but in reality can not build and deliver robust, reliable systems. If you have the basic technical ability and can ally with a marketable skill in J2EE, SAP, database administration or system design then there are still good career opportunities. In addition I would not be to dismissive of the role of project manager. Good ones are rare and valuable gems. If you can master the technical, business and financial conundrum of delivering large projects on time and within budget then you can name your price.