The Republican spin begins

[Twist_U_Up]

Info on how they are going to spin the #s

http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/1204/1204rigged.htm

[understandinglife]

1. Guess they've heard the weather report......

Peace.

"Did Bush Know?"

[shoelace414]

2.

The ultimate official count, whereby after several recounts George W. Bush won Florida by only 537 votes, was nonsense on stilts. During several "recounts," Democrat Florida election officials fraudulently took over a thousand Bush ballots and "reinterpreted" them as Gore votes. In some cases, the fraud was obvious; in other cases, officials handled ballots so much that, as one observer noted, the "chads" eventually gave way. (The chads were the semi-attached pieces of paper that were punched out when a citizen voted for a candidate.) Several thousand felons, over 70% of whom registered as Democrats, voted illegally; several hundred students attending segregated, black colleges engaged in voting fraud, by voting both from their home and their college addresses; and a few thousand military ballots from heavily Republican-registered voters, were never counted. Hence, Bush's Florida margin of victory should lawfully have been ten times what it was, without even speculating on the Panhandle losses.

and here in the real world...

[Hamoth]

3. Lol...so what's his gripe?

So he doesn't want us counting votes and auditing the system? I don't get it...

[Straight Shooter]

4. Frame the debate. "Spin" = "damage control"

What they have done, what they are doing and what they will do, is not spin. It is damage control.

:thumbsup:

[merh]

7. Love that damage control

and the newbies here spreading their "courteous warnings" to not pursue issues so that we are not "Rathered" and so we don't hurt "the cause" are on damage patrol!

LOL - I love that! Great. :thumbsup:

[Straight Shooter]

19. "damage patrol"

:D

What we would do without the posting police?

[merh]

22. Damage control by the posting police during their damage

patrols of DU.

[Twist_U_Up]

8. Conyers needs to be tough wendsday or we`re done

[McCamy Taylor]

43. Conyers=unflappable

He has the "I am faintly surprised that you would say something so foolish/rude/moronic, but I am too much a gentleman to express my displeasure with you, so please let me educate you instead" act down pat. His enemies end up looking like horses' asses.

[zann725]

20. Repugs on "Damage Control"...that sounds empowering!

Thanks! :kick:

[noamnety]

5. "the socialist main stream media"

"the anti-american main stream media"

pfffft.

Well, actually, I guess I could agree that the main stream media is anti-american.

[geo]

38. it's so funny.... you can gauge the degree of spin by how far left....

they accuse the media of being. Not just a little liberal; now socialist. These guys are kind of funny. :) -G

[LittleClarkie]

40. Nothing funny about being called a Communist

like I was during the campaign. I met too many people who think the Democrats are the new Communists and that we need to be drummed out of the country. That's probably one of the most frightening things about the current climate for me.

[m.standridge]

42. TV networks election night

I watched the TV networks as best I could election night.
CBS seemed to be the only one that didn't call Ohio until Kerry "did".
They waited until 11/3/04 to take it out of the Undecided column, after Kerry announced something about a statement, up in the a.m.
They also were awhile taking NM out. I didn't get the exact sequence of times for all, but it was a day or two later at CNN.
IA came out a little before NM, as I recall, although I think ABC and NBC and Fox had called it before they finished counting there.
NV was not called until after 1 a.m. 11/3/04 at CBS, although I think two or three of the others had called it as early as 8 p.m., about 30 seconds after the polls closed there, (or maybe there were some extended lines-- I didn't hear of any there, though), and before any results were up in some cases.
One thing I'm feeling a little apprehensive about, in this mass of data that Professor Phillips has on his Lyric Poetry website, has to do with the precincts or Wards in Cuyahoga County where there were more votes cast than voters registered.
He thinks this is a sign of GOP manipulation, and maybe.
But think.
More votes cast than voters registered in that Precinct or Ward.
That almost sounds like so Demo-oriented clerks were going ahead and defying Blackwell's directive not to allow provisionals to be cast by people outside their own precincts. If that's the case, those "excess" votes in those precincts or wards, might be Kerry votes, not Bush votes, and the "irregularity", if found, might be by the Dems.
Food for thought.
I mean, it might mean it was GOP voters that Blackwell's possible "organization" were allowing to vote in spite of the rules that were being enforced for Demos.
But the data, per se, doesn't really tell us that.
I have a friend who's Jewish, and who has a relative who lives in both Florida and Ohio. She's registered to vote both places.
That's all I know. I don't know if she votes in both places or not, in election years. But I know she's a Democrat...
What I'm getting at, is, there isn't going to be purity on the Democratic side. There will be some small irregularities, or might be, there, too. And the media will place much more emphasis on those, on balance, due to advertisers, ownership, etc--use your common sense, that's half the reason this columnist cited here is so conservative--than on GOP stuff, even if it's more massive.
Like blue-collar crime (street crime) versus white-collar, dollar for dollar, the penalties are so much more severe for the blue.


CNN, NBC, ABC and Fox all called Ohio before Kerry conceded.

[ccarter84]

6. whoa, they're accusing dems of manipulating exit polls

"As the New York Times' Jim Rutenberg reported on November 5,

"The new system was engineered to avoid such problems. It was built by the National Election Pool, a consortium of the major television networks and The Associated Press, after an earlier set-up, the Voter News Service, helped lead the networks to call the state of Florida in the 2000 election first for Al Gore, then for George W. Bush, then for neither. The system broke down almost entirely on Election Day 2002."

Let's see. When Bill Clinton was winning national elections during the 1990s, there were no problems with the exit polls. But once Republicans started winning one election after another, the exit polls, old and new, either produced worthless numbers on Election Day or crashed altogether, as the VNS did in 2002. I'm sure that's all just a big coincidence."

so they're saying that we're manipulating the polls?

[Twist_U_Up]

9. How can the Dems be so blind

I`ve wondered this even before this election.

I mean come on I figured it out, and they are much smarter than I.

[DoYouEverWonder]

37. Then they should tell us where the Exit Polls were done

In my county, which is a Democratic stronghold in FL, they only go to one precinct, so of course they go to the most rural and conservative one they can find.

I want to know where the polls were done and what were the questions before anyone starts making assumptions.

[fasttense]

10. Good info to know but

They don't argue why other countries rely on exit polls to confirm fair elections nor do they argue about the thousands of people who have called and written about their votes not being counted accurately. Perhaps those are the arguments we should use against them.

[Hamoth]

11. We have them on Defense

So when they post long and confusing rebuttals, we just look at them like htey are crazy, and ask "so you don't want to look at votes?"

That's how you pull a rove -- ON THEM.

[BeFree]

12. A quote:

Joe Lenski, whose Somerville, New Jersey company, Edison Media Research, conducted the $10 million new exit poll system for Big Media, has complained that people were asking too much of exit polls, which he now insists are useful only in predicting landslides. But the exit polls were reliable in the past, and if they were worthless in predicting close races, the networks, major newspapers, and AP would never pay so much for them. Somehow, I doubt that Lenski sells media conglomerates on paying his firm thousands of dollars per client, based on the notion that his exit polls are worthless in calling close elections.

Proof that exit polling is not to be taken lightly. The case is made for accepting what the exit polls claimed: Kerry as the winner. 10 million was not spent to just get some idea, 10 million was spent to get the facts, hours before the polls closed.

The Media, for all their faults, do not spend 10 million on something useless. That 10 million proves the case for accepting the exit polls as established during the day of Nov. 2. Even Fox news was giving the election to Kerry at 5pm! They had complete trust in exit polls and now they don't? Did they waste their share of the 10 million? I think not.

If they thought the exit polls were wrong, they'd be suing to get their money back. The only conclusion one can make is that they are hiding the truth.

[Tace]

13. Up Is Down... White Is Black... War Is Peace... Exit Polls Are Wrong...

It's all a conspiracy by Democrats... Democrats love riots... Terror... Terrorists... Terrorism... Terror... Terror... and on and on and on.

This Orwellian doublespeak mind control is really wearing me down.

[Patsy Stone]

29. 1984 City

War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

[catnhatnh]

39. Re:1984

Republicans is responsible???

[Shalom]

14. Be Prepared for Repigs Counter-Fraud Stories

As incidents of outright voter fraud by Repigs surface, be prepared that they have some "canned" instances of fraud by Dems that they will release in a timely manner.

This will allow the Reich wing to make the argument that "everybody does it", and defuse the outrage over their theft of the Presidency for 2 consecutive elections.

The Repig slime will not go down the toilet easily unless we apply liberal amounts of Drano.

[New Earth]

15. lol

[Hamoth]

16. Good!

This gives us a real opportunity to show that it's a multipartisan issue. If they can produce solid evidence of Dem fraud, then I say "GET THEM TOO!" I don't want ANY politicians cheating.

The first R to do this, we can just say: "See, they are on our side too! Everyone wants recounts!"

[Twist_U_Up]

17. lol

[FreeCajun]

24. Look At St. Louis to see this happening already...

[Hamoth]

25. Yup

that's why I say, go get em! If the feds find proof, then we don't want him anyway! I'm against voter fraud from all parties. I sure hope those R's are too! ;)

[ahyums]

18. the one thing which always shines through clearly when right wingers talk

about media bias, is that they really live in a slightly different plane of reality.

The leftists in the media they talk about are actually at best either at the center or center right - the right wingers that they talk about as being censored are so extreme that elsewhere very few would take them seriously. It's a continued concerted effort to move the center further and further to the right so that they can gain widespread legitimacy and pursue their own extreme selfish agendas. They must be stopped.


(I know I'm probably repeating what's been said a million times before but anyway)

[unpossibles]

21. wow

I too am sick of this opposite spinning. We're going to get accused of fraud, just like Kerry got accused of cowardice/indecision and no one is the wiser. hey, if it's on TV, it must be true... :eyes:

ugh. I totally saw this coming and am only surprised it took this long. I like how he says things which appear here in the "conspiracy factory" get debunked right away. I know of a couple of things which were half-assedly debunked and a few thousand which never were brought up at all.

So, their official story is we stole the election and committed fraud to get Bush elected? Is it me, or does it not make any sense? And since the media is obviously left-biased (except for the shining example of balance, FAUX "News"), the media is swarmed with stories about this... oh wait. no they aren't.

[Hamoth]

23. Main difference here:

We are not Kerry, and the DNC doesn't tell us what to say.

I'm telling you guys, the more they try that mess on us, the better!

Let them rant about election fraud! Please! If they can catch a Dem, I'd want that guy behind bars too! but a counter strategy would seriously help us out. Make AMerica think it's all one huge sloppy mess! Yes! That gets us our REAL election reform.

HAVA was their hcance to get it right. They failed. If they are concerned abotu election fraud, then they agree with us that the system is flawed. NEXT!

[EMunster]

26. I'm afraid the perfect Rove out might popped up this morning

...the U.S. consul attack in Saudi Arabia.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3119935a10,00.html

Don't put it past Rove to use it, and everything else about the mess over there, to "impress" upon a judge that "we're a country at war!" I am afraid they'll be raising the bar higher, because a "grayish" charge of "fraud" better be pretty good to distract our "wartime president."


After all, look at all the crap they've gotten away with, including the 2000 election. That was a clear crime. But the American attention span got bored.

With this new crisis, will Bush look like a War President, or a Jimmy Carter?

[blackspade]

27. I call bullshit!

This article is complete crap.
Selective use of information to support an erroneous conclusion.

Articles like this are the journalistic equivalent to vomit.
It is a mish mash of chewed up information spewed out like tea leaves or finger bones to be "interpreted" by neo-con propagandists.
All of this article can easily be shown to be incorrect, but to do it gives this crap legitimacy and takes a ridiculous amount of time.

[ahyums]

31. I'd call it aggressive disinformation, something the right seem to love

doing.

[bj2110]

28. My fav paragraph:

"Let's see. When Bill Clinton was winning national elections during the 1990s, there were no problems with the exit polls. But once Republicans started winning one election after another, the exit polls, old and new, either produced worthless numbers on Election Day or crashed altogether, as the VNS did in 2002. I'm sure that's all just a big coincidence."

Aren't we saying that the exit polls are right? Who's this guy been talking to?

[Straight Shooter]

30. Umm, no major problems with tainted elections until bush went national

bush + voting = tainted election

1 + 1 = 2

The line between bush and fraud is linear and short. Why do so many people end up wandering through a labyrinth of convoluted rationalizations?

[lthuedk]

32. The Party needs a spin-debunking website, like "Anti-Spin.com"

that auto-forwards all info to the MSM. Response time is critical so that the lies are nipped in the bud.

[regularjoe]

36. I can't read much of that stuff without getting angry and frustrated.

And I don't make good reasoned arguments while I'm frustrated.

regularjoe

[Kellis]

44. THAT

is an excellent idea!!!

We do need that :kick:

[Twist_U_Up]

33. Heres another response they are throwing around

I was telling the guy in a forumn about right wing CNN was
even mentioning things

His Response:


That's the biggest joke I have ever heard.

I still think we need to recount Wisconsin, Michigan, New Hampshire, Pennslyvannia and other Blue States that were closer than Ohio.

I believe Democrats cheated in those states to win. We know there was voter fraud in Philly to help Kerry.


Why do I waste my time with these brainwashed dicks !!!

[MarkusQ]

46. Because they are your fellow citizens

And because they are the once most in need of convincing. I am a Republican. I believe that there has been significant voter fraud in the past several elections. The fact that "my party" may have been (in some repulsive sense) "better at it" is beside the point.

The real issue, honest elections, is more important than party politics. I personally don't care who wins at this point as long as no one gets away with hijacking my country. No one. You can wave my flag, you can claim to be on "my side", you can kiss babies and praise apple pie. But if you tried to rig an election, I want to see you behind bars.

So don't waste time fighting these people. Instead, agree with them. Tell them they may be right. Say "You have an good point. Lets recount everywhere. By hand. And lets look into every single allegation of vote rigging of any sort, as if our lives depended on it. Because they just might."

--MarkusQ

P.S. The integrity issue is very strong with most Republicans. Point out that we should do whatever it takes to clear the innocent and nail the guilty. Point out that the only reason anyone should oppose a complete and thorough investigation is if they personally cheated or if they suspect their side cheated and they are the sort of low life scum that value winning more than integrity.

[Kellis]

47. excellent points MarkusQ.

:toast:

[Spiffarino]

34. In Stix's own words

"At the risk of sounding like a Republican hack, the rightwing bloggers have been serving as a corrective to the mainstream media; the leftwing bloggers have served as the mainstream media's accomplices."

Stix: Another discard from the "reality-based community."

[skids]

35. Handle the "Democratic Fraud" claims with tact and dignity.

First, remember that while we may be over here providing 99.999% of the push from the left, that the issue of getting to the bottom of fraud is nonpartisan. The first response to any such claim, the very first words out of your mouth, should be, "I think we should look into all cases of fraud."

However, as we know, playing fair gets you nowhere with the right. They are going to try to find as many cases of people doublevoting/etc as they can lay their hands on. They will probably come up with quite a few. They are going to say that each and every one of these cases was a vote for Kerry. That's where we attack them. Look at their stuff, and identify likely Bush voters.

The simple fact may be that, if any of the Madsen or Fisher stuff pans out, in those cases where they had to play with the voter rolls, they used the names of likely Democrat voters to inject votes for Bush. Still speaking hypothetically, it was probably always a contigency plan of theirs to turn around and point at their own fraud and accuse the Democrats.

We need to look into the doublevoting issue. Most of all, we just need to strive to find out the truth.

[Cronus Protagonist]

41. I"m not going to read all that

And I suspect neither will 99% of Republicans.




http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[Blue_In_AK]

45. GA-A-A-A-C-C-K-K!!!

I can't even read this stuff. It's making me sick. :puke: