New methods are called for

[fugue]

I've already posted this to another thread, but the thread seems to have disappeared. (Weird, didn't look like flamebait to me.)

I'm not calling for violence. Someone had to invent the sit-in, didn't they? And it worked because it was unexpected. The opposition wasn't ready for it.

We're using the traditional methods: writing letters, having rallies, going to demonstrations and marches, all the things we've done in the past. All the things our opposition is ready for.

We need to do some brainstorming and come up with some new ways to take on the powerful. I agree that we probably shouldn't do it online; they're monitoring the 'net. I just throw this out in the hopes that folks will start doing some thinking and passing around word the old-fashioned way.

Although I suppose we could pass a code by hand and then talk in it online. . . . We'd probably need our methods decided before that, though.

[trudyco]

1. My thought - sorry I keep repeating

Is to get affidavits of people who voted to prove the fraud. Or at least canvass to prove the fraud. Skip the courts. Stastics can be bandied by the other side. Prove the fraud. Go to the people

The other thing is we need to get the word out. It would be better if we can prove the fraud first. Then show all the suspicious activites on election night. The wierd stats. THen show the connections of B*sh, election officials, and the voting companies.

Write it up nicely and easy-to-understand then pass it around. Universities are good. We need to start figuring out how to bypass the MSM. DU is a start.

trudyco

[thedevilinthedetails]

2. WEAR ORANGE

Everybody can start by wearing orange. Maybe we need to come up with an Orange Arm band, or like Randi Rhodes was talking about last week, come up with Orange magnetic ribbons like the breast cancer and support the troops ribbons.

Orange like Ukraine. Ribbons to take back patriotism from the nut jobs

[fugue]

8. This is purely symbolic

Symbolism is OK, but we need something more effective. Something like the twenty-first century version of the sit-in.

Odds are they'll just make fun of us in the MSM for this. It's certainly not going to change their behavior. What we need is something that actually frustrates them, that keeps them from making their bucks or waging their war or intruding in people's lives. Something that gets in the way of what they want to do.

[Griffy]

80. WE just need bodies.. HIT THE STREETS ... NOW

this is not a drill... the revolution has begun... seriously.. did you think there would be a siren or something.. GO GO..

[fugue]

9. Just to play devil's advocate . . .

How does this prove fraud? As skeptics say of proving visions of the future, the hits will be recorded, the misses won't, and no one will take the results seriously. Also it will take much too long.

I grant that I think this is the best of the responses to my original message. It might be tweakable into something workable.

Guess it's time to dig out those brainstorming exercises a teacher gave us back when I was in school. . . .

[trudyco]

21. I don't follow the hit and miss thing

Are you looking for something short term or long term?

I think claiming Bush cheated is better if you have canvassed people and proved the numbers don't add up. I don't know if affidavits would hold up in court but maybe it would allow for the investigation of the machines???

At the very least, you can show something other than statistical aberrations. We've shown means, motive, opportunity and statistiics. I'd like to find a smoking gun. Maybe Madsen's article will show something, but its an uphill battle in this current climate/media.

As for time, I don't think going around with 100 people to canvass 1000 people is going to take much longer than 100 people going to a rally, and since the media would cut your 100 down to 2 in their coverage I think a fact of sworn affidavits of people disproving the so called official results would give you more bang for the buck.

Hopefully the 3% handcount will show something, as well as examination of pollbooks. But the pollbooks will probably have to be pried from them. Then we can see if the dead and moved voted.

If you have proof and that "20 things Americans should know" with a little more meat on it then you could distribute pamphlets and concise emails. The stickers are really good too. But based on my skeptical audience here at home I'd say we need more proof before we can get people riled up. I think its there and I think we can get it, but not from sitting at home on our computers (shoot).

It is unfortunate the Democratic party is not spearheading this. You know in 2000 I thought the media and Gore insiders gave up because they thought sticking to their guns would cause a civil war. Well, I'm beginning to think worse things could happen to this country. It's almost like the Bushes are taking a page from the Saoodi house and are trying to create a strong theological base, rampant corruption that makes a select few rich, and constant stirring up of fear of the enemy to detract people from the corruption. People would be controlled by fear, Government controlled media, and religion.

trudyco

[fugue]

25. Let me try again

The hits (those who voted for Kerry) will be recorded. The misses (those who voted for Bush) will not.

Also, affadavits . . . well, they're questionable as proof. Yes, the person signing one can be prosecuted if they lie, but how can that be proven with voting? You can prove whether they voted but not how. I don't think the right will accept them as evidence.

Don't get me wrong: I think it's worth trying. I just don't think it's going to accomplish as much as you think it will. I also think that the Democratic Party should not be the one to spearhead it. They would gain if it succeeds, so the Republicans would never believe the results. Someone else has to do it.

[OKthatsIT]

33. I agree

"It is unfortunate the Democratic party is not spearheading this. You know in 2000 I thought the media and Gore insiders gave up because they thought sticking to their guns would cause a civil war."

I dont feel comfortable with the 'conformist bent' of the DNC. There isnt anything good about what we're conforming to anymore. This ISNT what our Founding Fathers had in mind with this sort of corruption(fascism).

Dems, African Americans were targeted for the 3rd election in 4 yrs. And still, this tone the DNC permeates is 'unpassionate non-action is best'.

...we all need to throw up.
now, doesnt that feel better?

[SaveAmerica]

63. How about affidavits for those who couldn't vote?

Ohio is the hot spot, we knew before hand that Ohio would be the new Florida. Why don't we have everyone in the counties with worst voter suppression write out and have notarized the fact that they tried to vote but couldn't because of long lines, being sent from precinct to precinct, or whatever was the reason they weren't able to vote. The paper should include that their vote would have gone to Kerry had they been able to vote. Aren't notary publics' services a couple dollars? Free at some banks?

If you think this is a good idea, maybe it could be organized around the 51 capitol march on Sunday. Is anyone a notary public that lives in Ohio? Get the word out for those who didn't get to vote to come out to the rally and set up a booth to notarize their experience. Or before the rally go to those neighborhoods that had the worst suppression and seek out people there.

[Iceburg]

77. Agreed -- go to the people ---

you call it an affidavit .. I call it a re-vote without the political parties involved. We must seek the truth, nothing more ...nothing less.

[bemis12]

3. Secret decoder rings! And deputy badges!!!! n/t

[Marnieworld]

4. I read someone's post today about "Do nothing Friday"

Don't work or spend a dime in great numbers to have a big financial protest. Is this the type of thing you were talking about?

[fugue]

7. Well, we could

My concern is that it would hurt liberal businesses, too. My boss is quite liberal, for example, and I'd hate to hurt her company by not working on Fridays.

I also heard about "die-ins" in the streets. Lie down in the streets and keep people from getting around. I know this has been tried someplaces; I don't know what the effect was, but it seems it wasn't very.

I'm really trying to think of something very different. Our strength is our numbers, but how to leverage that. . . .

[libertypirate]

5. Couple Ideas

I agree much to be done, and we need new ways to communicate to the American Public.

I don't think moving away from the Internet is a "Smart" move, it is the one avenue they just don't get. I would suggest making it too easy for journalist to find the truth and blogs might be the perfect vehicle. A professional "Subject" blog that only worked to organize information relating to the subject would act as a reference of what has occurred.

Chain letter email questions that have clear no-spin answers, which all point towards sourcing on the Internet.

Frequently Asked Questions : Answers for those beginning to look into the story. Stuff that won't spin.

A petition to republicans from republicans about clearing their parties name of vote fraud allegations. Like we send the Dems, online type, they don't have to know an ass set it up.

A chain letter email from ass to elephant about vote fraud, and putting it behind us; as soon as they are on board.

[fugue]

6. I think they get the internet just fine

There's Drudge and Free Republic and Homeland Security is getting on private e-mail lists. (A friend's company's e-mail list. A not-for-profit that works on downtown development--setting up minority businesses and that kind of thing. What's HS want with them?)

Making it too easy for journalists to find the truth? The only blogs they take seriously are the conservative ones. Compare their reaction to the Dan Rather story response on conservative websites to their reaction to the vote fraud response on liberal ones. They get the internet, and they know where the info is. They're being selective about it.

I don't understand these two:

Chain letter email questions that have clear no-spin answers, which all point towards sourcing on the Internet.

Frequently Asked Questions : Answers for those beginning to look into the story. Stuff that won't spin.

Can you clarify?

[libertypirate]

17. Let me see if I can

FAQ -- This is a topic based list of answers for anyone looking into this election. Just the facts nothing more, nothing speculative, questions and answers.

Chain Letter -- So that it frames the argument like your asking the reader... Did you know (this, that)...?
Then put links bellow the questions where they will find the answers. Most won't know anything they will read the question and find the answer before they get the spin.

As for the part about the Internet... They really don't know dick... Yes, the elephants know how to keep the minions in line but creating an avenue for ordinary people to participate is not what they are doing.

Our effort for the most part has been a very organic one and, not in the fruits, nuts, Birkenstock, kind of way. We all found a place where we could get together and move beyond communication. We have organization, and strangers working together with purpose good purpose; could anything be more democratic.

The Internet can either be a tool to disseminate information down or up it all depends on how you define it. The Internet is already leveling the playing field once your in most of it is free. Everything I ever learned about how to repair, setup, tweak, program, and engineer computers I learned from the Internet. No schooling required… I don’t even have a college degree. I used my own common sense, my will to fill my needs, and I have created my own freedom.

Now put into perspective that people only know what they are told and what they directly seek to learn. If you don’t know how to get your government to work for you how do you find out, and how can you be sure that you are interfacing it at the right point to get what you need done.

[roseBudd]

10. Use Guerilla marketing to start a viral marketing campaign

by spending $10 at Kinkos and $11 at Staples and doing the following.

Guerilla marketing uses unconventional means of distributing a message.

Viral marketing describes any strategy that encourages individuals to pass on a marketing message to others, creating the potential for exponential growth in the message's exposure and influence. Viral marketing often comes about because of "buzz".

Before the election I was using guerilla marketing in my GOTV street canvassing with flyers. I hung them and I used them as a conversation starter. Some DUers did join me in using flyers but it was not nearly enough to create media buzz. People of course were phone banking, canvassing and writing LTTES, all of which were very important before the election. Now that we have time on our hands and an army of hopefully willing participants, IMHO a brilliant way to take the next step and get the word out to those who do not frequent lefty web sites is:

Use poor man's advertising and free delivery systems, ie. DUers to spread the immediate message, that the election was fraudulent.

Right NOW we at DU CAN just like the mean girls in highschool start a whisper campaign against the chimp's reputation. Do this:

download the file below and go to Kinkos and make copies.

BUSH CHEATED is color but can be printed and
photocopied B&W to save $$$. They print 2 to a sheet, so you will have to cut them.



download this and other files here:

http://somnamblst.tripod.com /

Use the BUSH CHEATED to flyer cars or even BETTER...

Buy a can of 3M Super 77 spray adhesive from staples and glue the BUSH CHEATED graphic to metal utility poles, bus stop shelters, advertising benchs, newspaper racks etc. let your inner anarchist express itself. If enough people do this then the masses will become aware AND just like highschool Bush's reputation will be ruined.


This is something we can do RIGHT NOW. No dreaming just ACTION. I've started. I challenge everyone on DU to commit to disseminating at least 10 per day.

I had hoped to plaster Columbus at the rally Dec. 4 with both BUSH CHEATED & Blackwell RECUSE, but the wind was so bad it would have been impossible. I did however do some bus stop shelters and utility poles near campus in Cincinnati Friday and none of my handiwork has been peeled off.

see also:

[fugue]

11. Sort of like the Freeway Blogger, huh?

This has possibilities! Sure, they can take 'em down, but we can put more up.

I don't know how many minds it will change. It seems worth a try.

I'm still looking for the "Shut 'em down like a sit-in" possibility. Maybe I'm dreamin'. . . .

[roseBudd]

12. At this point it is about informing Kerry voters who are unaware of the

fraud and what is going on in Ohio. And it's all about ruining chimpie's so called win. BUSH CHEATED 04 is the memme.

[neversaynever]

15. Unfortunately....

I think the American public has just become tooooooo apathetic to count on them for any large-scale civil disobedience actions.

My belief is that INTERNATIONAL intervention is going to be needed here.

I've got some ideas (some very good ideas) on how that might be effected, one place to start is with the action posted on Michael Moore's site w/ re: Germany's attempts to go after Rummy:


http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/whatsnew/action/actionAlert2.asp

but the repukes seem to already be on to this strategy

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/12/05/aid_cuts_threatened_by_us_over_tribunal?mode=PF

anyway, more on these ideas via PM?

[roseBudd]

13. looky

[roseBudd]

14. Waiting for the bus

[trudyco]

16. That's cool - does it tell you where to get more info? nt

[roseBudd]

18. Yes the small print says stolenelection.org n/t

As you can see that bus stop shelter wasn't exactly "pristine" to start with.

[Roger_Otip]

19. picket

picket outside the state capital building, or the offices of diebold with maybe a bit of live music and dancing to keep warm, and costumes. doesn't need many people - one person could do it, or people do it in shifts. but it would get attention.

[fugue]

27. This is an example of old methods

They're ready for this kind of thing. Pickets have been around for more than a century. They'll just arrest the picketers and drag 'em off, or put them in a "free speech zone."

This is exactly the kind of "tried and true" method we must avoid, unless of course we're using it as a cover for something else. They're expecting this one. We're trying to blindside them with something new.

[Roger_Otip]

20. Google AdWords

very cheap - spend as much or as little money as you want, but you can use it to promote your favorite website - or your own website if you have one. go to http://www.google.com/adwords.html

the better sites that are covering the fraud issue rank in google the more people will see them and they will gain in credibility.

[fugue]

28. Another good thing to try, but . . .

You seem to be missing my point, folks.

These are good things to do, they chip away at the iceberg, and every chip is worth getting. But I'm looking for something that they're not expecting and they can't ignore. Like the sit-ins at white lunch counters when they first happened. They were ready for one black person to come in, sit down, and order lunch. They were not ready for twenty to come in and do it.

We need active, obstructionist techniques that they're not expecting. We need many of them so that we can pull out the next one when they've gotten wise to the one before. We need to get creative, people!

I am trying, too; I'm not just sitting here waiting for ideas to shoot down. I've shot down many of my own, unmentioned because I could see they weren't gonna make it.

Get away from the symbolic. Get away from the slowly getting the message out. Think obstructive. Think dramatically reducing their cash flow (the one thing they care about). Remember that we've got numbers as our strength. Brainstorm.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

22. Science says: 'Use What Works.' OK? Good! Now.....

“If we let people see that kind of thing, there would never again be any war.”
-Pentagon official explaining why the U.S. military censored graphic footage from the Gulf War

1)Science has proven that our brains stress when we see stress on someone else's face. Probably because we are social animals and our survival is linked to other people's survival.

SO.

Showing disturbing photos of war victims is the only way to break through the media black-out on the consequences of the Iraq war.

COVER EVERY PUBLIC SURFACE WITH THOSE DISTURBING PHOTOS TO BREAK THROUGH THE DENIAL AND DETACHMENT!
(Caption-"Sending Our Kids to Kill Their Kids Isn't Making Us Safer")
http://www.einswine.com/atrocities/pictures/?source=iraq&page=3
------------------

2) Freeway bannering for rush hour is the way to reach many thousands of people who are practically a captive audience in their cars.

Using the 'Burma Shave' technique of telling a story in signs can be used. Think of it! All those middle class white and pink collar workers going to their desk computers to look up what they saw on the freeway. Then they tell their co-workers, lunch pals, and email other people. Networking!
http://www.freewayblogger.com/

But what message on the banners?

3) Most people think history started with 9/11 and that is the IN.
We coordinate the SAME MESSAGE every week so it has time to take, sink in and spread, just like Time or Newsweek magazine.

SO.

The first bannering message must blow minds so they stay interested in checking out next week's banner:

"GOOGLE THIS: OPERATION VIGILANT WARRIOR"

When people see that the cover story for 9/11 is complete bullshit, they will question the White House response with the so-called 'war on terror.'
http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/cia-simulation.htm

Having gotten an ice pick through the piled on bullshit, now we can tell them what the PNAC is and what it is up to, global empire.

Maybe the second week:
"GOOGLE THIS: PEAK OIL." (Demand for oil is outstripping supply)

Third week:
"GOOGLE THIS: PNAC" (Neo-con thinktank that calls for world conquest)

Fourth Week:
"GOOGLE THIS: PRESCOTT BUSH, HITLER" (Bush+ US Corps. built Hitler)

Fifth week:
"GOOGLE THIS: OPERATION MOCKINGBIRD" (CIA has controlled the media and used psy-ops on the American public)

XXX week:
The names of whistleblowers like John Oneill, Karen Kwiatkowski, Sibel Edmunds, Coleen Rowley, Joseph Wilson, Ray McGovern, Genl. Anthony Zinni, David Kelly, etc. etc.
--------------------

Well, is this a plan?

[fugue]

26. It's certainly got some promise

"Never again be any war." Like that's a bad thing.

It's gonna be rough on those of us who are deeply disturbed by such images. (Don't get nasty--when you've sat up all night because when you go to sleep you get nightmares revolving around horrific images you've seen you can talk!) But at this point, I think we have to live with it. Maybe when people call in sick because they were up all night with nightmares, corporate America will notice.

My only concerns are (a) this doesn't have the actual obstruction of the right's normal functioning that I'm looking for and (b) people will say the images are faked. Don't dismiss this. I'm learning 3D art software, and although I can't fake such pictures yet, I know there are people who can. There are tutorials on the net.

I think this goes with the "Bush Cheated" suggestion. It's worth trying. It might eventually work. It's not gonna stop 'em in their tracks, though.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

54. Create AWARENESS>OUTRAGE>ACTION. That's my plan.

The nightmare has already been created by the war etc...
People are already disturbed. They just don't really know why.

Yesterday Pelosi told a group urging her to seize election fraud that "she saw the need, now make me do it."

Meaning politicians want to FOLLOW a mass movement demanding action.

Showing American the evidence on their own streets is the way to do exactly that.

[fugue]

56. I'm not against it; I just don't think it will do much

By all means, try. I just don't think it's going to create awareness, let alone outrage. People will screen it out.

[jamboi]

23. I agree, creative new ideas needed. n/t

[glitch]

24. Here is an idea: The Yes Men do pranks and hoaxes to get the truth out

Uses humor but makes the point. Here's their latest score:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/06/1453248

"On Friday the BBC World Satellite television channel broadcast an interview with a man identified as Jude Finisterra, who claimed to represent Dow chemicals.

Dow, which bought Union Carbide three years ago, has always maintained it "has no responsibility" for the 1984 disaster when tons of lethal gases leaked from a Union Carbide pesticide factory in the city of Bhopal, India. 7,000 people lost their lives within days. 15,000 more lost died in the following years. Around 100,000 others are still suffering chronic and debilitating illnesses. It was one of the worst industrial disasters in history and for years activists have called on the firm to take full responsibility for the disaster and to clean up the contaminated site.

In the interview, Finisterra said Dow had accepted responsibility for the accident and had set-up a multibillion dollar compensation package. The hoax ran twice on BBC World and was picked up by the major news wires before the BBC determined that no man named Jude Finisterra worked at Dow and he was an imposter. The company was forced to remind the world it did not take responsibility for the disaster and said there was no compensation fund set-up for the victims.

In Frankfurt, Dow's share price fell 4.2 percent in 23 minutes, wiping $2 billion off its market value before recovering all the day"s losses three hours later. The BBC is continuing to apologize for running the interview today and says it has lunched an internal investigation. Later the man calling himself Finisterra told BBC radio he was part of the Yes Men."

There's a transcript and audio of the interview.

[fugue]

30. This is at least in the ballpark

It hits 'em where they feel it: right in the pocketbook. My only concern is that once the hoax is uncovered, people with dismiss the truths with the lies.

But this is the sort of thing we need. It's not merely symbolic. It hurts them. It is a dramatic slap in the face. It gets in the way of their power and money.

[Hamoth]

29. Silent Demonstrations

One of the problems that I see with demonstrations is that many in the nation view demonstrations as an activity of undiciplined rabble-rousers with no clear idea of what exactly they are protesting.

I don't think this is true, but a demonstration is an act of communication. Our demonstrations have failed to effectively communicate our nature to our audiences. The media, and the people at home who consume their product are ultimately the people we need at our side. I think we should change the tone of our demonstrations to one that is something new, original, and that will leave a lasting impression.

I propose one of these:

The silent demonstration could consist of 100 people standing in a public square, out of anyone's way but in plain sight, holding signs and standing for 4 hours a day. When press approach, you can't talk to them (this owuld dirve them crazy, imagine teasing a cat with yarn) nobody speaks with each other, you just all look into the cameras with accusing eyes.

Make this a march in DC of 30,000 people, and you have a truly profound message. Get 30k people and march them down constitution avenue in total silence. Each caries a sign upon which is detailed a single voting problem. March silently into the city, about face, and out of the city. Other than carying signs, don't talk to the press, police, officials, anyone. Silently, peacefully, march. Perhaps the 10 in front cary a banner with the inscription "20,000 reasons not to trust this election."

Dress nice.

[fugue]

31. This has been tried in my area

A group of peace protestors dressed in black and walked silently through one of the biggest social events of the year (our town festival, held in the center of town). They wound through the crowds saying nothing. Yeah, people noticed them. I think it was better than a loud demonstration. But most folks went back to the concerts and food stands and craft stalls and ignored them.

Again, something worth trying, but as a chipping-away activity, not a blow-'em-out-of-the-water-for-a-bit one.

[Hamoth]

34. Well, not quite what I meant.

On a large scale...gather attention NOT at somone else's event. Those folks were there for a festival...not a political message, that's always uncomfortable, and fankly annoying. It isolates your audience from your message.

Imagine the spectacle of rows-upon-rows of millitarisitc police that expected a rowdy street fight to break out, jsut staring at cool dispasionate faces, marching along. (Black is passe' try dressing in yer "sundy clothes" ) The variety in dress shows individuals better.

Either way, we need to demonstrate and reinforce at the same time that we are serious, organized, and reasonable people with a legitimate complaint.

[fugue]

40. I just think demonstrations are something they're ready for

Even quiet ones.

They'll put the demonstraters in a "free speech zone." It won't get into the media: not able to portray the demonstraters as unruly, they simply won't portray them at all.

Demonstrations, like pickets, are something they're expecting, that they have a strategy for. Just being silent isn't enough of a change to change that.

[blueokie]

32. little idea

This is my first post... ta da!

But (last month)I had contacted all the local news media and newspaper and have gotten a instant reply and that is it.
I think we need to goto college papers. Thats where the up and coming journalists are and as a journalism major I know how they are chomping at the bit for a great story. I used to cover anything happening at the school library. Anyway just a thought....
I know in my state the last thing they want to do is cover anything but god and republicans and cock fighting...

[Hamoth]

35. Comedy?

Political stand-up comedy protest? Get our best stand-up comics and comedic geniuses who side with us on this issue, and march on DC, put up a stage, and do good comedy? Guarenteed to get press. Makes us people you can empathise with.

I dunno...

[lonestarnot]

36. I like this.

But this only one aspect.

[fugue]

49. Definitely couldn't hurt!

I don't know that it will accomplish much, but if the geniuses who side with us will donate their time, it wouldn't hurt.

Well, maybe not. Look at what happened when Whoopi got started on Bush. Hm. . . .

[blueokie]

37. silly but festive

Maybe we need to decorate some public christmas trees? With Red Gloves or something.

We could use the holiday season to our advantage.

[gingergreen]

38. Let's shut down the INTERNET

as technology savvy people, why don't we figure out some way to have an INTERNET 'b*mb':nuke:. Where we could shut down the INTERNET for, say, exactly 24 hours and then immediately turn it back on.

Yes...it may change lifestyles for a few days/weeks/months and be virtually impossible but with the level of intellectual and technological resources at our fingertips.... why not?

It sure would grab attention and make people think.

Any ideas?? :argh:

[blueokie]

39. seems kind of...

violent.

If it could be done it would've been done. And who ever does it will be put in jail!

[gingergreen]

48. Yes that's true

nothing too violent but how else will we get the attention of people willing to send their children off to w*r.

Also, we could try to coordinate something with the movement Chavez is starting. Take a look at the In Defense of Humanity movement:

www.caracas2004.info/

[fugue]

50. Thanks for the link

I'll study the site. Maybe it will inspire some ideas.

[gingergreen]

52. current DU discussion...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1041164

This thread discusses the topic more.

[libertypirate]

41. Another possible method

Getting stories in local weekly publications, city news papers, magazines, etc.

The MSM may own the papers that cost you a $$ but the local press is still freaking independent.

[fugue]

43. Really?

My area is very liberal; I like to joke that we're a blue-Green county. All our newspapers--even the small independent ones--have been moving steadily right, however. Recently one of these independents ran an editorial said that the government has no responsibility to provide recreational areas for the public. So much for parks at the local, state, and national level!

[blueokie]

45. tried it...

sent a letter with ton links to the free newspaper in OKC (the gazette) no story...
For those of us in red states we need something different besides the news stories. Something attention getting...

[Road Scholar]

42. Just pester the hell out of the foreign press until

they start asking questions and writing answers. Just like they did in the Ukraine.

[fugue]

46. And this will effect the right-wing in the US how?

I'm not being flippant here. It's a serious question. I don't recall negative foreign press having any effect on any event in the US in my lifetime (I'm going on forty). I'm all for negative press for the right wing, but I don't think it will do much to their power in the US.

[neversaynever]

69. It won't, unless it leads to legal action

as in the case of Rummy (cf. German gov attempts to indict and investigate his role in Abu G. torture scandal).

Technically, at least with regard to the election, the UN cannot intervene because it's a "domestic" matter.

But there is always the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (an agreement that REALLY merits consideration, as it may be more applicable in this case than the Geneva convention). (google it!)

This agreement has been in effect since 1951 (?), the US signed on to it in 1988 under the Reagan administration. I believe that any 5 member nations may act against another for violations to the agreement.

The administration violates this agreement, not only w/ re: Iraq, b/ w/ re/ its own constiituents DAILY. (Read the convention, the definition of what constitutes "genocide" is oft misunderstood).

Why do you think this administration is so hell-bent against the UN? Kofi Annan is right on, but he's looking at the wrong UN agreements imho.

[fugue]

71. Well . . . maybe

I'm not saying don't try it. I'm saying I doubt it will have much effect. I think we'll be leaving the UN any minute. Foreign pressure has not impressed the Bush administration so far.

The Nazi leaders would've been grabbed by any civilized nation if they'd left their borders, but they kept inside their empire and waged war for many long years. Short of starting a war, I don't see foreign activity as doing us much good.

Of course, it has occurred to me that perhaps no domestic activity will do much good. Could it have stopped Hitler, for instance? I'd just like to find some way to stop the neocons without the civilized world having to launch a war against the US.

[neversaynever]

74. Invoking the terms of the UN convention on prev and pun of genocide

would not involve WAR, it would involve litigation -- legal action taken within the bounds of an agreement our government ratified as binding for US.

Of course, you're probably right, it's just another one of those nice ideas no one will go along with (because somehow or other they're all tied in to the same corporate scheme or otherwise dependent on the US for *something). But Germany does seem to be serious in its attempts to investigate and indict according to Geneva Convention.

ANd yes, it won't be long before we are out of the UN, which is why IF this is going to happen, it would have to happen soon--and that's not likely.

Seems to me this is what it will ultimately boil down to: that the Chimp & Co will not be able to leave this country without meeting huge protests--everywhere but here, sick aint it? :puke:

I'm gettin' REAL tired of apathy in this country; but that too was preprogrammed. :eyes:

[Road Scholar]

72. I think there's not a single country in the world that wasn't

disappointed with our election. Enough in the foreign press will put pressure on the "big three" here.

[neversaynever]

75. another benefit... of foreign coverage

I know for a *fact that foreign media coverage has caused many Europeans to contribute money to the recount efforts, etc. -- through the websites.

[fasttense]

44. Go to where the people are

Where is every one right now? In the malls, I've been thinking about this for days but I'm not sure how it would work. The malls are where everyone is now shopping. You have a captive audience. There are large spaces for people to congregate and if the media doesn't show up, there are security cameras that can record it. You hit them where their pocket book is.

The thing is I'm not sure what you would do there once you got the group in. You would have dress to stand out, pass out info and make noise. Not sure of the legality of this either. Just a thought.

[fugue]

47. Well, the legality is that malls are private property

They belong to whatever company owns them. You can be arrested for trespassing if you aren't devoting yourself to consuming. Not that that's necessarily a strike against it: many civil rights protesters were arrested, and it actually helped their cause.

What to do when we're there is the question. Something different. Something they aren't going to screen out automatically.

[joevoter]

51. teach-ins then public cell phone conversations

Maybe we can use <http://www.meetup.com> to get people together and go over talking points. Then go to a public place and have loud phone conversations (where permitted). I saw this idea somewhere and it looked like it worked well. I have gone to one meetup group and there were only 4 of us that showed up but hey, it was a good start.

[fasttense]

53. What's a teach-in? n/t

[joevoter]

76. was used in the civil rights movent

It is just a bunch of people getting together to discuss an issue. In regard to election fraud, it can be a way to tighten up the message and go over talking points before an action. We do that here on the net, but when people get together in person before a direct action they can go over non-violent rules, how to engage others and all talk the same talk... (like using the proper term "election fraud" rather than "voter fraud".

[fugue]

55. Maybe we're going about this the wrong way

When trying to come up with a fundamentally new idea, it's probably a good idea to get back to basics. I'm thinking of a teacher in junior high who had us do "divergent thinking" exercises. The idea was to come up with as many ideas that fit the description as possible. For instance, one was "things you can do with a tire." Another was "uses for items you'd find in a garage other than what they are generally used for." We would split into groups, and each group would try to come up with more unique ideas than any other group. Given American culture, the competitive nature seemed to spur us on. Perhaps getting together with like-minded friends in your area for this exercise would help.

With our power being in our numbers, I would suggest starting with "things that you can do with a large group of people" as our theme. Don't try to tie it to politics at this point. Just try to think up as many different things that you can do with a large group of people. Don't try to critique the ideas just yet. Maybe one of them will lead to a good idea.

See where it leads you.

[blueokie]

57. similar thinking

I typed 'how to get attention' in google and then hit I'm feeling lucky...

I got http://www.keepersoflists.org/index.php?lid=4068

OR getting media attention I go this:

Getting media attention http://www.justdosomething.net/xsp/xsc.asp?uri=/home/skills/media-skills/media


"The media won't just come to you of their own accord. You have to get them interested. Make them want to hear what you have to say.


Work out the best way to highlight your campaign. It might be a press release, a publicity stunt or even a photo opportunity. Then make sure it's good enough to grab their attention."

[fugue]

58. How about trying *your* brain instead of Google? ^_^

[blueokie]

59. ?

I have been I was just fooling around ... good grief charlie brown get a sense of humor.

[fugue]

70. Uh, maybe you should take your own advice

Don't you know a smiley when you see one?

[gingergreen]

60. Fly hot air balloons in front of their offices.

This one from the previous link could be good...

fly as many balloons as possible on one day with banners, propaganda, etc.

If you have ever been to the balloon rally in Albuquerque, NM...it would be similar but with millions of balloons all over the US.

Nobody could ignore such activity in the sky.

[blueokie]

61. ahh! any big brother fans?

How about airplanes with messages on them?


http://arnoldaerial.com/index.php

[gingergreen]

62. oh I like it! A transportation demonstration

airplanes and balloons.....

maybe also helicopters too.

Or just extend it to all forms of transportation: buses, cars on highways, tractors.

[blueokie]

64. ah yes the sex of

transportation demonstration :D

[blueokie]

65. I bet clear channel

would loan a couple of their billboards and some free on air ads?

[blueokie]

66. on a serious note

It would have to inexpensive something we could do on our own on a mass scale. I like the idea of putting signs everywhere because I can afford to do that! I like the idea of getting the message out but it'd have to be pretty inexpensive ...

[gingergreen]

67. ha ha

yes I bet they would love to help out.

But maybe sponsors like moveon.org, truthout.org,

and of courses businesses that are on our side.

[blueokie]

68. does anyone have contacts?

Its a shot...
I might still do the signs and advertise for the 51 march. i am going to go but I have images of me and my sign just standing there...at the okc capitol

[Mist]

73. I've been thinking along the same lines

I don't think street protests are the way to go anymore either. How about billboards? Do it legit, I mean. Sometimes they're not that expensive. But yeah, lots of brainstorming needed.

[Griffy]

81. YOUR DEMOCRACY IS BROKE... the truth is all .. MARCH NOW

this is not a drill.. the revolution has begun... hit the streets!!

[marions ghost]

78. Ditto --need brainstorming now.....

...fugue has brought up some tough questions.

These are different times, because of the repressive tactics to stifle freedom of assembly and the media going awol. Need creativity, lateral thinking, use of humor, use of new media outlets, new uses of the net, low-key marketing techniques.

Here's a radical thought...put some positive messages out with the serious ones. Sell inspiration and hope. That's what Kerry/Edwards symbolized. That's what MLK symbolized. That's what JFK symbolized. People desperately want faith in the possibility of something better--that's so obvious after this November. There is a mandate for change now...but people still need focalizers...a downtrodden group needs solidarity. Find somebody who can speak well and inspire groups.

Watch out for shocking images back-firing. A lot of people are immune to them, while others are super-sensitive to them. (The fetuses come to mind--not saying don't ever use shocking images, but dont be constantly associated with them).

We are action-oriented types, but who are the people we are trying to reach?....analyze different groups. Pitch messages different ways. Gonna reach college kids differently from seniors, etc...still look for unity in diversity. Find common ground.

Use educational means--(in simple terms) Did u KNOW?...followed by links to sites where you can get info about vote problems for ex.? That's the basis of the 'Google It' idea above--wouldn't have to just be on banners. You could do it other ways. The goal is building awareness over time and using the element of anticipation.

--Dunno if we can do anything economically other than boycotts, but boycotts can be powerful...suggest that people give to new progressive organizations, new media (generate a convenient list that prints out to a one-page flyer)instead of over-consuming. Research alternatives to certain essential businesses or industries and offer options.

Street assembly may not be totally out. Suggest smaller groups,
at very specific places and times. Consider using performance, music, art, visual props. Yes, dress nice (or at least not too scary). Phalanxes of silent people might be too militaristic (conformist?) for wartime?

For more expensive concepts, generate ideas in a small group and then look for ways (or rich people) to fund them. A good idea can
sell itself.

[jamboi]

79. kick