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Bill of Rights Donating Member (424 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:01 AM
Original message
In Interview, Programmer Details What Led Him to File Vote-Rigging
AFFADAVIT.

http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=479

Not sure if someone has posted this yet. I think bluelemur is related to Raw Story. Anyway, he inteviewed Clint Curtis.

STORY:
It has been a long day for Clinton Curtis.

Curtis, who signed an affidavit which has been delivered to the House Judiciary Committee, has accused Congressman Tom Feeney (R-FL) of requesting the development of software which would allow vote totals to be tampered. Feeney, who now sits on Judiciary, was then the general counsel and lobbyist for Curtis’-then employer, Yang Enterprises, as well as a rising star of the Florida state congress.

His allegations have raised a deluge of questions. Why now? What is his agenda? What made him decide to come forward?

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Bill of Rights Donating Member (424 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. OMG he did it for the $200,000 Justice for Music award.
Edited on Tue Dec-07-04 03:05 AM by Bill of Rights
Remember them? They offered a cash reward to anyone able to prove vote fraud.

On Edit: Oops. I should have read more carefully. He didn't want the money for fear of tainting the equation.
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. He is ass-kicking courageous! n/t
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George W. Hayduke Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
3. CURTIS'S DOG FOUND DEAD?!
reported by bradblog at:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/
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Bill of Rights Donating Member (424 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Hayduke -- why do you keep typing the same blurb
in threads that have nothing to do with the dog? This is the third time I've seen this exact post.
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. I think that murder will sooo backfire on the right. Thanks right! n/t
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
5. Perhaps he noticed that our democracy was hijacked.
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Woo Donating Member (181 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. He says...
They're not going to be able to detect it -- it's too late -- that's not encouraging news --

In fact I was feelin' pretty good until I read that...

damn... I'm goin to bed --

Maybe new hope tomorrow...
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Seldona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Let's hope he was smart and kept copies of the software.
I would have, though I would NEVER have done this for anyone.

While they may not be able to track what actually happened, if he can prove by showing the code and what is does, that the software was indeed made and used, then this could get extremly interesting.

Life in prsion would be too nice for this guy, even if he is coming out now.

And for the puke who ordered it made.

Let's hope there is SOME way to prove what he asserts.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. There were a lot of machines that weren't
put into use in the Democratic areas of Ohio. Those would have been set up to flip votes but since they weren't used, they didn't flip anything and therefore would still have the code ready to do it's thing...am I right in thinking this?
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #13
42. if they weren't used, they should be impounded immediately and sealed.
dontcha think?
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
6. Well, at least we can be pretty sure the affidavit is real
Edited on Tue Dec-07-04 03:39 AM by jsamuel
Can't wait to see what happens with this.
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Roger_Otip Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
39. why does the affidavit look so fake?
the last page is a different color to the first three and it's written differently. what's the reason for that?
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #39
47. last page was on colored paper.
Someone who had seen the original (Brad, I think) posted that detail yesterday.
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Bill of Rights Donating Member (424 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
9. Two newspapers are vetting the story
according to the interview. I bet at least one of them is a Floridian newspaper. Local angle, and all.
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Bill of Rights Donating Member (424 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:16 AM
Response to Original message
10. It's interesting that he sort of blames the Democrats for allowing this
Makes me think that he isn't current on what's going on. Which is okay.

The Republicans refused to let the voting bill go to the floor for a vote. What other recourse did the Democrats have, at their disposal?
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #10
38. I felt the same about Democrats. And, maybe it was selfish.
stream of consciousness follows:

About when I was realized that the world started spinning out of control...hmm...that was when Newt Gingrich took control of the House...well, about that time, my thoughts were, "Hey, where are the Dems to counter this crap?," "If not the white Dems, where are the black Dems who use to march in the street in numbers?" And then I got angry at them because I was deep in diapers at the time, overwhelmed by stress and ill-health and I didn't feel safe because something was happening to my country and I was in no position to help out, even if I wanted to.

Then we moved. Deeper into Repub Country. And it got worse.

My health was still bad but the kids outgrew their diapers and I got politically active, without realizing it was politics. I just went about trying to put the world back in order in my own backyard. That's when I realized that the people had changed.

They had grown tired of the process. Ordinary people wanted a quick fix to complicated problems. Instead of long, grueling scientific and well-thought out community development plans, they wanted someone who could go and play golf with the right people and get all their problems resolved before they made the 18th hole. But they gave up something very precious when they went about doing it this way. They gave up the future. Because it was in the future where the cracks in the process showed up. No integrity. No consistency. But more importantly, a high level of distrust in one another. Because you never know who in your neighborhood can play a better game of golf than you.

Anyway. Now it's too late. The only way to take the Republicans down is by demanding that they be charged for their illegal activities. Do not tolerate this behavior. Do not agree with Novak that for the good of the country, we must accept fraud.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. A good read...what you say. Your point about "playing golf" with the
right people to get all one's problems solved instead of focusing on the long grueling process of working on community development." (I condensed your quote), but that was an incredible insight. I've felt the same way..We focus on the "instant solution" and it has done terrible harm to our whole society and the way we interact with each other.

This quote from you sounds like the start of what could be a great article for DU front page...

They had grown tired of the process. Ordinary people wanted a quick fix to complicated problems. Instead of long, grueling scientific and well-thought out community development plans, they wanted someone who could go and play golf with the right people and get all their problems resolved before they made the 18th hole. But they gave up something very precious when they went about doing it this way. They gave up the future. Because it was in the future where the cracks in the process showed up. No integrity. No consistency. But more importantly, a high level of distrust in one another. Because you never know who in your neighborhood can play a better game of golf than you.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. Thanks, Koko, for reading it through.
The very first line of my post (not what you quoted) included a word that should have been edited out. It's a bit confusing at the beginning, but, that's the nature of a stream of consciousness.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. I wish you'd do something with your observation. Sounds like an
intersting post for DU "General Discussion." I bet you'd get lots of replies. (Then again you might go to the trouble of posting it and no one would answer...what do I know??) :D But, some of us here have observed what you are saying, but just couldn't express it as well as you did... How do we change this "instant fix?" It started with Gingrich goes back to Reagan though, I think.. Needs to be talked about someday.


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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #51
59. I'll think about GD.
Meanwhile, how we can stop them from the short-term mentality, quick-fix thinking is by throwing their mistakes at them. At a local level, I have an example of good ole boyism not too far from where I live. Anyone would agree that something very wrong happened because it involves something tangible. (However, I can't be sure that it was only Republican good ole boys involved, which is why I really don't think anything will ever come of it.)

But there's tons of other things. For example, Social Security and privatization. How well did everybody's stock portfolios manage through the last bubble burst? (I tbink that's a euphemism for crash.) Are stocks really a good idea in the long term? Of course not. In my lifetime, I've witnessed two hard crashes. Each time it happens, someone has to start all over again.

Then there's the IRS. They want to privatize that also. Well, the right-wingers hated the IRS when it was government controlled because it was too intrusive before, but now they're going to have professional collectors hounding them at their jobs for back taxes. And the privatized collectors get 25%!

Outsourcing. That's an easy one. The Republicans are unconditionally in support of it.

Iraq. There's now a report out that we're less safer than we were before Bush attacked Iraq.

What I'm wondering is why the Dems are waiting until next election cycle to start advertising this information. START NOW. How difficult is it to encapsulate how people's lives are going to be impacted with each line that's slipped into a bill?

And for overly dramatic appeal, make funny commercials illustrating the silliness (and tragedy) of short-term vs long-term thinking. These can be hilarious. I remember past conversations with old senior Republicans. We were in the middle of a drought and the guy was laughing at how the environmentalists had made a big deal about flood zones as in, "see, those liberal worry about nuthin." And look what happened to us this year. The idiots in Sanford who have been playing havoc with our flood zones almost got flooded. What's more, despite everything, Florida only got one inch per hour of rain this season. That's not the big storm that will cause all the problems. That one is yet to come.

Another idiot Republican, about fifteen years ago said the liberals were making a big deal about sun exposure and skin cancer. Look where we are today. Not even sunscreen will help you forever.

The Dems should get on the offense and start making commercials now. I would caption this project under the caption: "You know they said this"
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. Classic "Gore versus Bush" (not the lawsuit!!!)
...long, grueling scientific and well-thought out community development plans-Gore. He was posed after a lifetime of public service to move ahead with plans for a sound global environmental policy. Everything was set to go. The Clinton Administration had created a surplus to help in accomplishing great goals in the name of the people...

However...along came...

...go and play golf with the right people and get all their problems resolved before they made the 18th hole--Bush, who we now know used corrupt players and illegal tactics to steal the elections of 2000 and 2004, and probably 2002.

Americans fell for the image manufactured for Bush by his keepers.

And the media didn't help with its "Who would you rather have a beer with...?"-type polls, further "dumbing down" the perception of the role of US President.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #49
60. Now that you mention it, yes, It is exactly the parallel
we're dealing with.

And make no mistake that those good ole boys are only in it for themselves. They are not for the public good.
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krag Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
11. I Tell You
This guy has a giant set of brass balls. This is the kind of guy that if he were just a bit more cautious would get snuffed by BushCo in some obscure, gruesome staged suicide.

He appears to be such a cantankerous, confrontational and uppity bastard, however, I don't think the Bushies know what to do with him. I suppose it deomnstrates that the way to deal with the cloak and dagger world of the Bush mafia is to go nuts and scream at the top of your lungs, "LOOK EVERYBODY!!! RAPE!!!!"
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. They'll probably try to make out that he's a nut case
and debunk what he has to say. They will attack the messenger, not the message.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. They will probably do that whole "disgruntled employee" thing.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
16. Well, if he has been trying to get this out for a couple years,
Edited on Tue Dec-07-04 04:00 AM by Laura PackYourBags
we can think: why didn't they snuff him already? I wonder how Feeney has defended himself up until now. I wonder why Curtis hasn't gotten anyone, that we know of to cooberate (sp?) his story, surely someone else knew. I am wondering what the makeup of the Florida legislature is - but too tired to look it up
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Repubs, no need to look it up
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Of course, duh. I couldn't think of any noble reason that
anyone could use to justify their support of a measure that allowed a machine with no back-up tape. Surely they didn't try to rationalize that position by saying it would be cheaper for the state? That is the only reason I can think of that stupidier people might believe.
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momzno1 Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #21
40. Diebold memos showed that they wanted to charge
up the yin yang for the addition of paper trail to the machines.
I remember reading that in a thread a few weeks ago. Does anyone else have that link?
Of course, Cash registers, and ATMs have paper trails, but Voting Machines??? Nahhhhhhhhhhh, don't need em!
tell me this.... Why else, but FRAUD???
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. the obvious reason is he's had plenty of complaints for job reinstatement
or such and a quitam claim for the fraudulent billing practices they did. So he's in "the system" so to speak. Killing him in the past two years would have been like killing the woman who came forward with a whistleblowing complaint against Enron. etc.....
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 04:16 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Good point. Too bad his dog didn't file any complaints n/t
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momzno1 Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #24
41. second dog that has been killed for this guy...
hug your pooch tonight when you get home.... :-(
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 04:04 AM
Response to Original message
17. good for him to take on the Feeney political machine like that.
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 04:11 AM
Response to Original message
20. great comment at the end of the article by a guy named Ray
his last two sentences--

"You were all duped! Those of us in the technology field are stupefied that the election went forward under these conditions."
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 04:16 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. As I have said so many times before, the dems were not to blame for this
At least in Fl.

They tried to get into the courts, but Jeb stopped them the whole way.

So, blame it on Jeb.

Or

Blame it on the stupid people who didn't give a $%*# and let it happen - typical US citizen...

Let's face it, did any of us do anything about it before the last few months before election?
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 04:49 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. The whole primary season and the whole campaign
should have addressed this. As much as I loved dean, I was dissappointed when he announced his candidacy, and further distressed as each new candidate came forward. I think that all should have joined together and focussed attention on the shennanigans of 2000 and the crime lying in wait in the form of the repuke owned and operated machines. If the whore press had decided not to cover the story, then people might have wondered why only the repukes were campaigning.
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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #23
35. Some of us have been screaming with our hair on fire for nearly 2 yrs.
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Stevepol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #35
43. Zan is right, a lot of hair fires around the country.
I knew I wasn't the only one. There are a heckuva of people who did a lot to get people to pay attention to this. I called the local Elections Commissioner here, hounded a reporter on the local paper for 6 months, sending article after article, link after link highlighting the problem, sent emails to profs at the university here, called the League of Women Voters head here in town when I read that the LWV at the time had the position that having an audit trail was actually contrary to democratic principles (??????). At present the League has reversed itself, but how could anybody in his right mind think that an audit is unnecessary when you have a machine programmed by rabid, almost psychotic partisans, that counts the votes in elections that they are fiercely interested in? At the time and even today it seems inconceivable to me that anybody could think that hard copy recounts are unnecessary for these machines. Even the optical scanners should be audited in every election. They have stolen democracy from the country and it's going to be a long time before we get it back evidently. The inmates have literally taken over the asylum.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #35
45. And some have been screaming with hair on fire since Selection 2000!!
And...our PARTY NEVER LISTENED!!!! NEVER. Even when we got involved and ran for office and canvassed and wrote letters and faxed phoned and e-mailed and marched and demonstrated...Our PARTY NEVER LISTENS...


Sorry...just had to scream....:D
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Bushfire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #45
56. Does "Rob - Georgia" ring a bell to anyone?
Salon did a series of articles about the Rob Georgia patch, and the whistleblower who came forward. I've hand delivered copies to Russ Feingold, Michael Moore, Al Franken, and my US Congressman. None of them took it seriously enough to sign ANY legislation for real vote reform, or to talk about it at any length. Michael Moore did make www.blackboxvoting.org his website of the week, but he had the media's ear during his book / movie promotions.
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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. Yep.
Yep. and Yep.

I hand-delivered a copy of Ronnie Dugger's story in The Nation to Kerry's brother.

On September 14 in Houston, I told the candidate's brother Cam Kerry in person, face to face, that his cadre of lawyers was not enough, to be ready for machine fraud and get some technology experts and people familiar with this onboard, gave him a copy of The Nation cover story by Ronnie Dugger. He seemed polite at best, and not at all curious.

"How They Could Steal the Election This Time," by RONNIE DUGGER, The Nation, Cover Story -- August 16, 2004 issue http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040816&s=dugger
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 04:13 AM
Response to Original message
22. Look at the bright side, if this is not our smoking gun, surely it
will call attention to the need for paper/back up tape machines.
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Hamoth Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 04:29 AM
Response to Original message
25. He has a book to promote?
Over at the RRMB, KyndCulture found out that Curtis has a book.

http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inke...62-0976195917-0
--------------------
Just a Fly on the Wall
by Clint Curtis


ISBN: 0976195917 Publisher: Clint Curtis Publication Date: September 2004 Binding: Paperback Language: English Pages: 316 Dimensions: .66x6.14x9.21 in. .98 lbs.

Synopses & Reviews
Synopsis:
You've read the speculation. Heard about all the research books. No one has actually come forward and told a first hand account of the deceptions of the Bush Administration. Now someone has. With time running out, finally, an eyewitness has come forward. Within the pages of this book, you will learn that the Bush Administration has: Purposely attempted to rig the last election results and has the elements in place to rig the 2004 election. Knew that Iraq had no WMD, yet planned to invade Iraq, Iran, and Syria even prior to his election in 2000. Makes speeches on making America safer, while allowing Communist spies high security access to government installations. Covered up and prevented NASA investigations into spying and even sent the Vice President and the appointed head of NASA to campaign for the congressman responsible for the spies access to NASA.

-------

Notice he had this written well before the 2004 election. Also that Madsen's "reporting" is parroting the synopsis of this book rather closely. It almost seems like Madsen's writing has been simply going through this book and reporting the contents as "news". But who wrote the synopsis? Noise at the RRMB points out that it was DICK MORRIS.

After learning this, I don't trust this tangent, or this source. A serious flaw in the sources agenda, and timing, have been upturned and unless his claims are somehow corroborated, I don't trust them.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Yes, so does everyone and their Mother...
Edited on Tue Dec-07-04 04:36 AM by jsamuel
Bill Clinton does too... I am very suspicous of him... I think he became Pres. just to sell a book...

Anyone who ever wrote a book, in my book, is not credible. Even if everything they say is backed up with facts, it doesn't matter. I am even starting to doubt that William was ever President to begin with. You just cannot trust these book writers.
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Hamoth Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Sarcasm aside, this affects credibility.
His alegations relate directly to the ubject of his book. Many have asked the question: What possible reason could lead him to say the things he is saying, other than goodness of heart? This may answer their questions.

If a republican wrote a book about Kerry working with the north vietnamese...and we all dismissed it as being unfounded, then later a known right-leaning journalist came out and began publishing the book's outline as a news story, with his sole source being the author of the book, how credible would we find that?

The Swift-boaters had a book and affadavits also. More than this is required to prove anythign to me. All of the stuff I have read so far is uncorroborated, and lacking any hard evidence of having inside or specific knowlege about the 2004 election.

Our one source has a book to push, and that does indeed make his specific testimony here suspect to me. Sure, Bill Clinton has a book. If he released the book and hten a month later claimed to have proof that Bush planned 9-11 or something...Then I would also find his claims uncredible and ask for some kind of evidence or corroboration. this is all anecdotal and so far a VB widget is the only concrete thing produced...but that's only a "replication" and the auther himself admits that this code probably won't be found in voting machines.

For all the fanatastic claims, where's the proof? If this is our "deep throat" then where are the TAPES!? Oh...deepthroat has an anti-nixon book he just wrote...and we find no tapes..

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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. He is a republican writing about republicans
Not a dem writing about repubs.

Unlike the swiftboat guys, he was there that day. He reported this years ago and no one listened. He reported it to an investigator BEFORE WRITING A BOOK and he "committed suicide" in 2003. This guy has been trying to get his story out every way possible and that includes writing a book, so what.
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Hamoth Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Republican?
As for his trying to get the message out, that has been pretty much what I had been thinking. Given the message that was attributed to him begging for media attention in an urgent tone and in full view. That adds to his credibility. But as for his being a "Republican" I gotta take a few glances at this...

He doesn't sound like a republican on his web page...
Let's see some of these republican views...He interrupts his message about having specific knowlege

< We can fix the problems without such aggressive tactics. We do however, have to make some noise. I believe we can do so through economic boycott and the recall of questionable election results. >

Sounds like a green activist there.

< We can take away their dollars. The top supporters of Bush must be attacked. Now I’m not talking about burning their buildings or assaulting their executives. I am proposing a boycott of their products. >

Not a very republican approach, voice, or tactic.
http://www.justaflyonthewall.com/votefraud.html

If the guy is legit...let's get some evidence rolling out.



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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. I know, but he at least "was a Republican" in 2000
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Hamoth Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. How can we back that up?
Did he write anything at that time, editorials or anything? I mean...I could work for republicans and still be a democrat...LOL, I kinda think that most of our bosses ARE republicans.

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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. So far, I have only seen it in the signed affidavit, so I don't know if
there are records or not. I suppose there would be a voter registration of some sort. Or the repubs would have his name on file or something.
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Hamoth Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Well,
I have lots of friends who registered as republicans to sabotage the RNC primaries, and to infiltrate their party. They are still as liberal as can be, and vote dem / green every time.
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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. What are you saying here? If he is a Repub he has cred? If Dem, no?
?????
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. Give me a giant break! n/t
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
46. Didn't the "Swifty Vet's Liar's" have a book, too? Doesn't one need a
"book" to get on the airwaves today. Would any of the folks from the Bush Administration critical of him gotten five minutes on CNN/MSNBC and in print, if they didn't have a "book" to promote? PR gets them out there to sell the book. Don't know who Curtis' publisher is but the media is always kind to itself and if they promote a book it's okay because they are helping one of their own.. :shrug:
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DubyaSux Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
50. As a programmer....
Edited on Tue Dec-07-04 01:11 PM by DubyaSux
.....here's my take.

He just ain't good enough to pull this off.

His method is both bush league (no pun intended) and unworkable.

First, he had to write this in C++. Otherwise, you would need to install all the Visual Basic runtime files and that would be undoable with even crappy election official monitors. Furthermore, the checksum routines in the GEMS system to make sure it's a valid file would never pass.

Now, for the technical part...

He says he reads candidate data out of the database and indexes an array. Well, I opened up the Colorado Gems database and looked at the candidate table. It is indexed on the KeyID, but the values were around 400 up to 600 (the numbers could be higher or lower in other areas - there's no way to know). For his "array" to work, he would have hundreds of blank data points and as far as he is concerned, they are valid candidates because he claims to be going by ID. So, NULL would have won the election. Either that, or you would have to scroll through 400 candidates to get to the one you wanted. Now, if he were to say he tracked by ID and used names, that would be one thing. But he didn't. He said the placement of the candidate was based on the ID. This makes his entire story bullshit. Imagine if the candidate ID's were in the millions as long type integers allow? He'd run the computer out of memory.

Secondly, nobody with any type of real programing experience at a level to pull this off would use an array to begin with. You'd use a CMap object and manage everything through a collection of those data objects. It's cleaner, faster, more robust, and pretty much impervious to crashes and memory leaks (as long as you cleaned up your mess. If not, anybody running the compiler in debug mode to test would see all the compiler memory leak warnings pointing right to the culprit).

In any case, either method would have been caught. The initializing and deletion of the CMap objects would be plainly obvious to any developer because of their required location (constructor and destructor points), and a fixed array would have made experienced developers laugh their asses off.

It's obvious that he knows a little about some higher level programming language, but I wouldn't trust him to program my VCR if this is the best he can do.

Lastly, his entire method is flawed. Even if you were to assume all his crap were true, it's unworkable for more than two candidates. You'd have sequences so complex (with the hidden button concept, which is probably bullshit as well as I've never figured out to hide a button without disabling it, but I could be wrong. He could create his own window object to do it, but that's not a button), you'd look like those kids at the arcade in the mall trying to dance to the flashing lights for points.

It's true I am one of the few democrats that don't believe systematic fraud won numbnuts the election, and it's because of these types of issues. It's implausible beyond belief. The things that would have to go correctly and perfectly on a mass scale to rig an election while avoiding getting caught is unimaginable.

It wouldn't break my heart for Bush to enjoy a long healthy life in a jail cell the Hague sent him to for his war crimes instead of the White House, but complex conspiracies didn't get him reelected. Stupid freeper types got him there - not smart ones.

I agree with Bev Harris other points regarding this issue (there's something you won't see much) because that simply adds to the implausibility. This guy is a fake and I think I have proven it.
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Monkie Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. not a programmer but a partial answer
he says he wrote this before the 2000 election to show feeney that votes could be flipped secretly..
as a programmer i assume you have had to make something for one of the "suits" that looked pretty and had nice buttons and bells but didnt actually DO anything,and then when the budget gets approved you get the money and time to actually write/make the thing they are paying for?i'm not a programmer but in my previous field of employement that was commonplace..
as to the machines that DID count the vote that where made by diebold and ess and so..its those machines code that needs proper auditing.
previous leaked diebold sourcecode was shown to have poor or non-existant security and there are reports (posted in other threads) that the sourcecode for the machines was never independantly audited
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DubyaSux Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. That's fine...
...but I gave you the facts. Lots of things could have happened, but the fact remains his methodolgy is flawed and unworkable. He swore an affidavit to something he did - not what he could do.
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Monkie Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. i think you misread the affidavit..
YOU opened up the colorado gems database and looked at the candidate table.
and then make some impressive looking statements about how his method is wrong.
NOWHERE in his affidavit does it say he had ANYTHING to do with the gems software itself.

then you make some funny remark about vhs programming before going on to debunk the hidden button because you as a programmer wouldnt know how to do that
now the vhs remark is amusing since most people will know that by pressing certain keys in sequence at the right moment on consumer electronics devices DOES bring up hidden service menu's

now i could direct you to critique's by real programmers of the diebold election software but you already seem better aquainted with that software than i am

you may be talking about facts but that seems to have little to do with what he says in the affidavit?
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DubyaSux Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. It has everything to do..
...with the affidavit. He said he has hacked votes and he would have had to modified the Diebold database (part of the GEMS system) to be able to do it. This is not implied or made up. This is how stuff works. In fact, he would have had to have done it to the Sequoia and ES&S databases which to my knowledge are not publically available.

He can't do what he says he did without modifying the contents of the GEMS database. That part is impossible.
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pointsoflight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. You clearly did not read the affadavit.
He does not say he wrote a program that hacked the votes. He says he was asked (and did) write a prototype of the concept.

Please stop with your misinformation.
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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #50
63. It's not difficult to "edit" an election if it's Diebold.
Don't believe me, believe the Red Team test of Diebold by former NSA experts. Official test for the State of Maryland.

Curtis or no, there are several vulnerabilities -- some would call them "features" not bugs -- built into the Diebold tabulating configuration.



Md. computer testers cast a vote: Election boxes easy to mess with
-----------------------------------------------------------------
By Stephanie Desmon
Sun Staff (Maryland)
January 30, 2004

<http://www.sunspot.net/news/local/bal-te.md.machine30jan30,0,4050694.story?coll=bal-local-headlines>

For a week, the computer whizzes laid abuse - both high- and low-tech -on the six new briefcase-sized electronic voting machines sent over by the state.

One guy picked the locks protecting the internal printers and memory cards. Another figured out how to vote more than once - and get away with it. Still another launched a dial-up attack, using his modem to slither through an electronic hole in the State Board of Elections software. Once inside, he could easily change vote totals that come in on Election Day.

"My guess is we've only scratched the surface," said Michael A. Wertheimer, who spent 21 years as a cryptologic mathematician at the National Security Agency.

He is now a director at RABA Technologies in Columbia, the firm that the state hired for about $75,000 to look at Maryland's new touch-screen voting machines scheduled to be unveiled in nearly every precinct in Maryland for the March 2 primary.

MORE
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AtLiberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
52. Well, well, well...Feeney sits on the Judiciary?
Yet another reason for the Republicans not get involved with the investigation and formalize the process...
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #52
64. Are you kidding? He's big in the Federalist Society.
I'm beginning to suspect that he'll do anything to inflict his conservative values on this country. Can it be possible that we live in a world where someone would steal the entire election of a free country in order to control the Supreme Court? For what? Is he really that much of a religious zealot? Does anybody know of Feeney's religious fervor?
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Catamount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
61. I'd like to know
Why he didn't come forward before the 'election'
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