could ohio be bush's watergate?

[colonel odis]

could that be why the democrats in congress are focusing on investigating efforts to supress the vote, rather than a recount?

if a covert operation by the republicans is proven and the little cowards start singing and pointing fingers higher and higher up the chain of command, could the democrats be thinking that the guilt will land close to the oval office?

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. BuckeyeGate?

[ClassWarrior]

12. Votergate.

Even has the same cadence of Nixon's folly.

NGU.

[idealista]

32. The LieBold Scandal

Not my idea, but it has a great ring to it, and captures the "bold lie" aspect of the Repugs' fabrication of a mandate. "Votergate" doesn't sound sexy enough, though I love "gate" on the end of any scandal. Ah, those were the days. "Today, another Liebold'er was arraigned in federal court...".

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. Surpressing the vote is a big part of the scandal

but the real scandal will be when we find out about all the 'forged' and destroyed absentee ballots.

[Brundle_Fly]

3. Nutbugglergate

[9119495]

4. Wouldn't an independent media be needed to raise

awareness of this thing? I doubt the 200,000 Olberman viewers are enough to get the public talking about this stuff. It is a nice though, and the story is probably there, but it will exist only in democratic blogs and European papers.

[bones_7672]

5. I doubt it, I don't think Ohio can be tied directly to GWB.

Unlike Watergate to Nixon.

[Quakerfriend]

6. I so wish

that we had more info. about Bushits trip to OH on election day. Did he meet with Blackwell????

[bones_7672]

8. Blackwell said he didn't, but even if he did ...

... would it be so strange for the Prez to meet with his statewide campaign manager? You can't impeach a Prez for that.

[DoYouEverWonder]

16. Yes it is directly connected

because Bush is the head of his campaign for president. In this situation he is a candidate and he is directly responsible for his campaign and anyone that works for his campaign. Especially, someone like Ken Blackwell, who was a co-chair. This wasn't just some overzealous volunteer, Blackwell is also an elected official. There is no excuse for Blackwell and or Bush to not understand campaign and election laws.

[roseBudd]

33. The reason I do believe Bush was involved is because of what I read

in an article on Capitol Hill Blues:

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4636.shtml

Bush's Erratic Behavior Worries White House Aides


In interviews with a number of White House staffers who were willing to talk off the record, a picture of an administration under siege has emerged, led by a man who declares his decisions to be “God’s will” and then tells aides to “fuck over” anyone they consider to be an opponent of the administration.

“We’re at war, there’s no doubt about it. What I don’t know anymore is just who the enemy might be,” says one troubled White House aide. “We seem to spend more time trying to destroy John Kerry than al Qaeda and our enemies list just keeps growing and growing.”

Aides say the President gets “hung up on minor details,” micromanaging to the extreme while ignoring the bigger picture. He will spend hours personally reviewing and approving every attack ad against his Democratic opponent and then kiss off a meeting on economic issues.

[SharonRB]

38. Sounds like he's becoming as paranoid as Nixon

I just hope we can prove he's just as guilty -- and sooner rather than later!

[eowyn_of_rohan]

25. But I would bet Florida can be tied directly to JEB! -nt

[VTGold]

7. Prophetic article from October 1st

http://www.business-journal.com/archives/20041001DemocratStateSenatorsCallForBlackwellsResignation.asp

[me b zola]

44. great article

Amendment XXIV of the Constitution states..

The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice-President, or for Senators or Representatives in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

Isn't vote suppression by ANY means covered by this Amendment??? They may not have violated the letter of the written law, but they certainly violated the INTENT of the law. Is anyone versed in Constitutional law?

[rjbny62]

9. am wondering if recount is a red herring?

if you were going to fix an election, wouldn't you use methods that aren't discoverable in a recount? To me that seems to be why black box voting is allowed to exist at all. There is no audit trail, and that is vital. The majority of the votes are tallied using proprietary software running on ultra-secure MS Windows with interim storage in a local MS Access database. And, the other types of ballots are also not immune to tampering.

There is a lot of risk to dems if they push an expensive recount that turns up nothing of any substance. There have already been recounts in NH and in the northern FL counties where this has happened, but OH is a much larger deal.

You are probably right that it is better to focus on suppression.

[bones_7672]

11. 97% of Ohio ballots will be counted the same way as at the election.

And as far as suppression, unless you have hard-copy documents giving instructions to deliberately take machines away from precints in order to suppress the vote I don't think you can make a case that will stand up in court.

[MercutioATC]

18. Agreed...complicated by the fact that the person who decided how many

booths to place in Cleveland was a Democrat.

It's hard for Democrats to complain that poorer neighborhoods in Cleveland didn't have enough booths when WE made the call.

[truehawk]

22. The party affiliation of the person who mis-alocated the machines

is not as revelent as the fact that they did.

Thugs can register and reregister as Democrats.

People are not born with a Donkey birthmark that shines in the presence of evil.

[rjbny62]

40. thats right, in FL they register democrat and vote republican

[truehawk]

21. This SHOULD stand up in Court

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x121922

[Smarmie Doofus]

10. If the justice dept. wasn't as partisan as it is... yes.

I don't see it happening, though. No pressure from congress as they control both houses. Media is out to lunch, as always.

Only possibilities: Ohio legislature ( or are both houses red?) and/ or local municipalities and counties where law enforcement is Deomocratic and/or honest.

[bones_7672]

14. Both houses are very, very red. n/t

[indepat]

13. Never will there ever be another Republican Watergate, not when a lockstep

mentality has become so pervasive that nary a whisper of dissent will likely ever again be heard from within.

[MarkusQ]

24. Don't drink the koolaid

A lot of Republicans hate Bush as much as you do. Some hate him more. They will turn against him if there's cause. And the rats will desert a sinking ship. That will leave the Neo-con echo chamber looking very lonely.

--MarkusQ

[indepat]

39. Lonely maybe, but in full control of all the levers of power in government

[MarkusQ]

42. Remember Nixon

Toward the end, no one was even returning his calls. People were taking down their pictures of shaking his hand, and trying to act like they'd never met him. Once it's clear that you're guilty, no one wants a hold on your ear or your coat tails, and that's 90% of what hold the government together.

--MarkusQ

[indepat]

45. Seems the Nixon era was before a lockstep mentality had enveloped the GOP,

back when some put country ahead of party/ideology. That was then, this is now, an era when PNAC visionaries rule the day in quest of the century.

[MarkusQ]

47. Don't confuse the Neo-cons with the GOP

I'm a Republican. So are a lot of my friends, and almost all of my family. We're running about 85% anti-bush.

So how come he seems to be the leading light of our party? Beats us. Maybe for the same reason he seems to be the president elect. A lot of Republicans are suspicious of Bush and the Neo-cons. Some (the fiscal conservatives, the ones that think it's wrong to lie to congress so they'll let you use the army to kill people you don't like,...) are more than suspicious.

Look at the intelligence reform bill. Republicans are not monolithic.

--MarkusQ

[PATRICK]

15. Possibly this dumb reasoning

IS part of party strategy. Meanwhile, as people and America continue to perish from the earth, this stealth pose will be buried by the next terror attack or war.

It is so pathetic and fragile a strategy and so hopeless one really has to question the intelligence or loyalty of those going through old motions in a new crisis.

Pitiful. So now we are basing our lives on an analogy empty of effect?

[emcguffie]

17. I for one hope so

I certainly do hope so. I know hope isn't very enlightened, but I do believe there are honest Republicans who will be sickened when they realize what has been going on. To the point even of possible impeachment, if the election is not overturned. Watergate took quite a while to develop.

Of course, one big problem is all those Republican senators and congressmen who got their seats the same way. Consequently it will be necessary to expand the investigation to other races.

It just has to keep developing, to the point where the machines are examined, and no, 97 percent of the votes are not counted the same way.

I think the Arnebeck suit will want to look inside the machines.

[keepthemhonest]

19. I am hoping that there may be phone calls, memos and meetings

and that one person who has been hearing little tidbits of evil and actually has a conscious will turn them in

[electropop]

29. There may be hundreds who were in on it

At a minimum, for the suppression effort, the SOSs and the county election commissioners in many many states and counties.

For electronic theft, it could be as few as a couple dozen people, who would have written theft software for the machines, and their bosses at the various voting machine companies.

In some cases, it's apparent that whole rooms full of people are involved, such as during that lockout in Ohio.

This is just too many pieholes to keep shut. Somebody will be presented with enough evidence of his/her personal malfeasance to become frightened. Then the squealing starts.

[truehawk]

20. We will try to make it so!

[MarkusQ]

23. That's how I'd bet

That's how I'd bet. The data is all publicly available. There is no shortage of witnesses. And once it starts unravling...

--MarkusQ

[ladjf]

26. Nah. The only thing they are good at is covering up their tracks.

[McCamy Taylor]

28. Not true. The "suicides" will bring forward witnesses afraid...

...that they will be targetted by the cleaners. Your best protection from the Bush hit squad is to be very high profile...and stay out of small aircraft.

[ladjf]

30. If we could ever just find one person who has the indisputable

hard evidence the case could be "cracked". Somewhere out there, there's got to be someone who cares about the country enough to blow the whistle. And so far as "suicide" is concerned, you are correct when you say if the information has already been made public, say a video sent out simultaneously to 100 TV stations and newspapers, there's nothing to gain by "suiciding" the witness.

[seito]

36. Too True

Never underestimate the intestinal fortitude of a pissed off witness that has been threatened.

[Dinger]

27. Wouldn't Comparing Availability of Voting Machines In Precincts . . .

be easier to prove than how the votes were electronically stolen?

[keepthemhonest]

31. I remember a thread that

offered a 200 thousand reward to someone who would come forward with info about election fraud, enough to convict. what if DU raised a reward so big(bigger than 200) it would be hard for them to resist, plus they would be a public hero.

[chorti]

43. this has been done in franklin

See: <http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x122226> and see .

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Minnesota_Lib]

37. Get ready for the new Republican catch-phrase....

"plausible deniability."

In five weeks if you do a Google on this phrase, your first 2480+ hits will be at RNC and Freeeper sites. ;)


Edit: my sloppy spelling

[Cocoa]

41. Bush has several Watergates

and none of them is very secret.

Iraqgate, Sept.11gate, PlameGate, WMDGate, etc.

[Withywindle]

46. What bothers me is that

the * administration has already done so many things worse than Watergate, and it seems to just roll off them. Is the public completely desensitized to scandal now? (unless it involves blowjobs?) Is the suppy of rationalizations for not worrying about it just bottomless?


Another thread just had me thinking about Iran/Contra. I remember when that broke: it seemed like the hugest, most twisted scandal imaginable. It should have brought the whole Reagan/Bush I team down in foul-smelling toxic flames. And yet it seemed like only a small segment of the public was paying attention, or cared...