The reason there are so many new people here is the election.

[smartvoter]

I came to this place because it's where the best election fraud data was coming from when ABC shut down its election board. I would imagine that many are here for the same basic reason -- this is where activity is centered.

I keep seeing challenges to new people, labeling them as Freepers. I went through the same myself any time I disagreed with someone who's been here a while. I am thick skinned and it didn't bother me as they often looked foolish and were called on it by other veteran DUers.

However, I have read a number of "sick of this" posts from new people out here and the bottom line is you have a choice here between larger numbers and broad representation, and a private club.

[Hamoth]

1. That and national news coverage

Kieth mentioned this place on his blog, if I recall. The RRMB's best hot leads were coming from here so I came to check it out. If anyone wonders whether I am real or not, you can check me out over there too.

http://forum.therandirhodesshow.com/

So many places have suddenly started linking to you guys, and you guys got a lot of mentions in various websites that we all frequent...lots of "thanks to the guys at DU for putting this to our attention" everywhere. Bev Haris was here...that was also a draw for me.

Mostly I'm here because you guys do hard research, and at the RRMB nobody knows how to get their hands on data. I was hoping to help with some new analysis work on a few things and thought it woudl go over well here and that I coudl get some help from better minds than mine.

Here's still hoping!

[read the law first]

58. Make that the LACK of national news coverage. DU rocks!

Because of the MSM enforced blackout to appease their corporate bosses and not threaten their government contracts by rocking the boat, DU right now is the CENTER of the political/electoral universe!

This is the ONLY place that people can come to in order to get UP TO THE MINUTE information on who is going to be the most powerful man on the planet and it's all happening in real time. That's kind of important.

DU is the hub of the whole election right now.


Recounts NOW!!!!!!!!!! What are they waiting for???????????????

[AmyCrat]

2. I agree SV... again ;)

You and I, again, are on the same wave length. I was even considering starting a new post to this effect.

Of COURSE there MIGHT be some new people who COULD be "freepers"...

BUT, if democratic underground is getting links from places regarding fraud, and people are coming here for information on that fraud, and joining and posting, even asking questions, we should all be careful not to chase them away with "get away you freeper!" statements. Diversity is good. Looking at the evidence and presenting intelligent arguments on it's authenticity is good! Don't for one second think the media doesn't do the same thing.

If it's not strong enough to stand up to some scrutiny, is it strong enough to begin with? Maybe, but isn't it worth exploring? We can all be on the same side, while being skeptical of "smoking guns".

[SaveAmerica]

33. I can understand not trusting...

I came here after the election because those that I volunteered with before had been scattered to the winds, the official Kerry/Edwards blog was MIA, I needed to find like-minded people and see if I could understand how a win that was supposed to be Kerry's wasn't. That's why I'm here so I know that not all with low post counts are rep. but I can understand why trusting is so hard. Along with all the other horrible things the current white house occupiers have done, they've eroded basic trust in America. For me it started with the color coded alerts (heaven help us if there really is need to alert America, who will listen?), included the over-the-top announcements of death and destruction if Kerry was elected, and has grown into a distrust of certain people. As I've learned of the wide array of fraud possibilities I've even started to wonder about some of the people I volunteered with. I agree it's wrong to chase away or deride those with opposing views, but I can understand the basis of their mistrust.

[Broken Acorn]

3. Well put...I agree smartvoter n/t

[Pirate Smile]

4. Are you checking out the other forums also?

Hey, to me, the more the merrier.

It is the best place I've seen to get information from a huge variety of sources.

[pixelthief]

5. Agreed, the election IS a factor

to be accounted for in bringing in large numbers of newbies and freepers alike.

Don't doubt the fact that there are freepers here. More join every day.

Please check out this post from another thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x122703#123286

[smartvoter]

10. I am sure there are, but unless you're psychic, show some tolerance.

Seriously, I've gotten to know some of the newer people out here and the are doing all kinds of things for the cause both here and on their own and I've seen them called freepers many times. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[pixelthief]

29. You've misunderstood

Please show me the courtesy of reading my post (and included link) carefully before implying intolerance on my part. I'd do the same for you.

[smartvoter]

32. I didn't mean "you" literally. Just a broad statement.

Can see why you thought that after reading. Should have taken a moment to write it out better.

[pixelthief]

36. Honest mistake

No worries.

[Tace]

6. Yeah, I Started Posting 2 Years Ago -- Never Got Called A Freep

And I definitely, naively, posted some stuff early on that would engender derision today.

I'll betcha, though, that most of those folks crying "Freep!" are relatively new posters as well. I've found that most of the old-timers are open to different views and less likely to get offended, cry "Freep!" and hit the alert button.

I have hit the alert button a few times. But, it was when the person was obviously deranged and writing obscene things and taunting posters. They get tomb-stoned so fast, and their posts removed, that most of us never even see such posts.

Cheers, and Welcome To DU!

Edit: Plus, there are any number of Freeper converts and DU/Freeper bi-boarders taking part without disrupting.

[Stand and Fight]

9. Actually...

Your post was tongue and cheek if ever there could be such a thing. "I'll betcha, though, most of those folks crying "Freep" are relatively new posters as well." Hmmm... I know for a fact that this is not the case. I alerted on two "veteran" DUers this morning for doing that same sort of thing -- people who had been here since like 2002! Told them they were full of themselves and missing the obvious reasons as to why membership has grown in November. I don't think generalizations in any way are going to help encourage membership or cohesion among members.
;-)

[movonne]

19. Maybe DU should start a forum for converted Freepers..I would

like to see that.

[Stand and Fight]

7. Right on, smartvoter!

I have been quite disgusted by this very same occurrence. It really is quite counterproductive to discourage people from coming on the site through such abrasive posts. There might be some freepers, but some of the people on this site have grown overly paranoid in regards to whose freeping. At times I have regretted donating my hard earned cash in light of these heinous attacks from so-called fellow progressives. But I will fight on and say to hell with them and their paranoid narrow-mindedness!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

20. i remember Seventhson had been here for almost 2 years and he was a freep

i believe he had thousands of posts and on Nov 3rd came out of the closet and PM every old member and cuss us all out and told us what sucker assholes dems are...i never did like the guy but was none the less taken aback by the PM.

ive learned that high post counts offer little assurance as to whether one is a freeper or not

welcome newbies and please bare with some of us old farts ...understanding that we were all pretty shocked at Seventhson long infiltration and ugly actions

[Stand and Fight]

22. Thanks so much for sharing!

I am glad to be here despite the foulness of some members. It is nice to know that there are honest people like yourself that would come forward with a story like this. I'd no idea that such a thing had occurred! That really does suck when you come to trust someone. Makes you wonder who the hell you can trust anyway! Doesn't excuse anyone's behavior, but it makes for interesting thoughts.

[theorist]

8. Don't take it personally.

I think it's getting better now, but you have to realize that we've all been through a lot over the 6 months leading up to 11/2. Then, the trauma of the outcome put everyone on edge. As you know, it's been a hard time being a DU newbie for this reason.

I personally never call out posters for having low post counts. You have to keep in mind, though, that a veteran DUer will be suspicious of someone making a controversial claim with less than 100 posts. Don't let that stop you, of course. It may be wise to befriend someone with a high post count, and run things that you're unsure about by that person before posting.

We are all peers here regardless of political leanings. Just be civil.

[Tace]

11. Heck, Only Time I've Have Threads/Replies Removed Is Since The Election!

There's been a lot of edgy members lately. People seem particularly sensitive about discouraging remarks about Kerry. Keep in mind, this place is, at heart, a board dedicated to the goals of the Democratic Party.

[Stand and Fight]

12. Ummm....

I have to admire you for having the intelligent and know-how not to call on posters for having low post counts. That has nothing to do with intelligence, intention, or motivation for being on the site. Suspicions are fine when they are balanced with thorough reason -- not unhealthy and unheeded amounts of paranoia. It's nice to see that there are SOME veteran posters on here that have mastered such outbursts. I commend you for that. However, I must ask what about free speech? Are you kidding us when you say we should run things that we're unsure about by that person before posting? Are we in freaking kindergarten now, and we have to request permission. I don't think such a system would promote the free exchange of ideas and information. The majority of us are adults here. I don't need to run my posts by anyone! As you said, theorist, we are all peers here, and likewise it is not necessary to have to censor ourselves unduly because people cannot temper their paranoia. That is what should be checked and looked at -- not someone's post number, not their time on the site. Many of us are long-time and proactive Democrats -- we should not be reduced to actions similar to loyalty oaths or pledges. I'd thought we were better than that.

[Wordie]

17. I don't think that's what theorist meant. It seemed the idea was offered

as a suggestion, something that a poster could do if the poster wanted to, not a requirement.

...and give people some room for making inadvertent errors now and then too! :)

[Mojorabbit]

16. Im new to posting here too

I have lurked for a long while and rarely post. I am not one for "me too" posts and will never have a high post total. I am getting a good education too.
It does disturb me that the charge of being a freeper is thrown around so much and the counting of post totals seems a bit junior high but them I am old.
I think the work being done here is phenomenal and I have a real deep respect for those in the thick of it.
Peace,
Mojorabbit

[Daphne08]

28. Well, this is my first post

and I don't know what 'a freeper' is, but I originally came here because I am very uncomfortable with the direction in which I see this country moving. I have been for years, but it was the talk of reinstating the draft that spurred me into seeking out alternative news (which led me here). I have two sons who are in their twenties.

I'm a lifelong Democrat, and I'm also old enough to remember the political and personal devastation caused by the war in Vietnam, the social and political changes which occurred during the 60's, the Watergate scandal in the 70's, etc, so you can imagine my horror over the reactionary John Ashcroft and the passage of the Patriot Act.

I've long been fearful of the increase of power now held by large corporations and our own federal government, but it was this unprovoked war in Iraq that finally awakened me.

I'm certain that there are many here for the same reasons that I am. We wish to be informed even if we rarely post.

[Im with Rosey]

41. I am also old enough...

:nopity: to remember all that and more. One of the most important things to remember is that we all have one thing in common. Shrub is doing his best to destroy our country, to line his pockets and frankly "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" My current words to all the repubs in my immediate area are, Did you vote to send MY SON to war? That is one of my main objectives with the info I gather from DU... to keep my 23 year old son and others like him, out of the clutches of a war mongerer!

[Tace]

44. Daphne08 -- Welcome To Democratic Underground -- Yahoooooo!

[Daphne08]

53. Thank you, Tace

I've already learned a great deal from all the information I've found here, and as Im with Rosey stated above, I'm interested in keeping my sons (all our sons and daughters, in fact) from having to fight in a war which should never have been waged.

[Razorback_Democrat]

67. Sorry

I think that is absurd

running it by someone with a large post count?

give me a break

[MarkusQ]

13. The fraud, not the election

In case anyone cares, I came here because I saw the poll results change on election night. This disturbed me, and I started Googling for a clue as to why it happened. The most cogent comments at the time seemed to be here, and I wrote the moderators a note, asking to join.

In the note, I clearly stated that I am a Republican, and have been for well over twenty years. I am not a Neo-con, and I strongly believe that election fraud is a non-partisan issue. As I told people at the time, I'll be glad to get back to arguing over who should pay for health care, and how much, as soon as we make sure that we aren't living in a totalitarian police state founded on the big lie. I don't particularly want Kerry to win (I voted for Badnarik), but I'll be damned if I'll sit idly by and let a bunch of crooks steal my country by wrapping themselves in my flag and claiming to have a "mandate" from my party.

So that's why I'm here.

--MarkusQ

P.S. My initial interest was to get rational points about election fraud to communicate back to my (mostly Republican) friends to convince them that this wasn't just "sour grapes" on the part of the Democrats, and likewise to remind the Democrats here that many (I'd even say most) Republicans want fair and honest elections as much as they do.

In the last few weeks, I've also become involved in trying to promote the constructive threads (e.g., voter suppression, counting irregularities, etc.) and discourage the "disruptor" threads (e.g. affidavits about Chinese spies and Black Helicopter rumours). I'm afraid that the closer people get to seeing how simple and easy it is for partisan election officials to swing an election using low-tech dirty tricks, the more we are going to be barraged with unconfirmed reports of unspecified allegations of international intrigue and dog killing.

[Tace]

46. MarcusQ -- Not Sure If You'll See This -- 'Cause It's So Late, but...

I'm politically an independent. This is a great board.

[MarkusQ]

64. I agree! I love it here! (n/t)

[WritersBlock]

14. Thank you.

I started coming to DU because I heard it mentioned so many times in the Bartcop chat room on election night.

I've been afraid to respond to certain posts because:
1) I may look stupid to those who've been here longer if I say something about a subject without knowing the DU history.
2) I may be branded a "Freeper" if I dare to disagree with anyone who has more posts than I do. I'd really resent that, especially because there are family members whom I haven't spoken to for months over this election, and I cried - actually, literally SOBBED - when I realized that the election was being called for Bush.

So please don't assume that low post counts = Freeper. It ain't necessarily so.

[Wordie]

15. Thanks for starting this thread. It's a touchy issue and good to get out

in the open, imho. This place attracts people who march to a different drummer, in general, I think, which is great. But when people have a slightly different slant on things, it can be easy to misunderstand. Add the frustration of the election results and all the other factors going on right now, and there can easily be problems. All of us may be having moments of grumpiness or impatience.

I think asking people to clarify can be a good idea, when in doubt. But then, I myself am not an "oldtimer".

[Quakerfriend]

18. It seems to me that some

are labeled Freepers, rightfully or wrongfully so, because of the tone they but into their writing. Sort of legit IMO. Just as when speaking to others in person we need to use certain etiquette.

[Wordie]

21. Maybe, but I've also noticed that its easy to presume a "tone" that the

writer doesn't really intend. That's why disagreements are so much easier online, imho. In person, we have all kinds of body language, and the sound and tone of voice to tell us about the intent of the speaker. When we deal only with writing, its not as easy, and miscommuncation is MUCH easier. I have said things a couple of times, meant in a highly positive way, only to have the person completely ignore me, or flame me.

And then, when you are dealing with such controversial material anyway, which so many people have such a deep investment in (I'm still, personally, having difficulties sometimes about Kerry's loss), it makes for some difficult interchanges.

[Stand and Fight]

23. Very clearheaded posting. n/t

[Pepper32]

27. It's funny you should mention that... (MY TWO CENTS ABOUT ALL OF THIS )

When I first started posting here and someone implied that I was freeper. I was instantly VERY offended, I thought they were indirectly calling me the N word or something similar. I calmed down eventually, because I knew they could not know I was biracial/black as they had never seen me. I had no idea what freeper really meant, at that time. Then when I found out it originated from some site or that it meant republican. I thought wow they are so far off it's beyond funny. How many black republicans are there? I don't know any. I know they exist, however. Although, I seriously doubt they will come down off their high horse to even visit DU, let alone spy or whatever.

My main purpose for coming here is because I don't want the GOP to get away with suppressing black voters and I want the guys I voted for (Kerry/Edwards)in office. As it should be, had the GOP not cheated using dirty tactics.

Bet.com is a great site but most people there think the election was won fair and square or don't want to admit black/minority/democratic people votes were suppressed. I am scared to death that republicans are trying to roll back the times where black people shined their shoes and said yessa a massa'. I have seen some very troubling bills introduced to the house and no one is addressing them.

I was really hoping that someone here would be attacking the issue of voter suppression and intimidation furiously. However, that's not the case. It's really disheartening but I'm tough and I will not give up the fight to have every vote count and everyone allowed to vote. That's my main goal for being here and all thanks goes to Randi Rhodes for pointing me to this site via her messageboard. I like her board but it's not quite DU. I feel this site is the heart of the party and it is taken very seriously by media sources etc.

I really hope people would just get to know me before prejudging me. My head doesn't spin around and I'm not out to get anyone here or influence your opinion. I just want my concerns heard and acknowledged.

It's really sad that people get labeled for things they have no control over. What do they want newbies to do, show ID, scan their voter registration card and post it? Exactly what will satisfy the newbie bashers? I will now step down off my soap box. :)

[pixelthief]

30. Me, too

I, too, am disheartened over the lack of focus on voter suppression and intimidation. But I also think that the reason for it is that most of us are focusing heavily for the moment on the fraud issue because it has the (slim) possibility of overturning the election.

I'm sure these issues will have their day in the sun before we're done. And don't forget about Cliff Arnebeck's challenege in Ohio, which relies heavily on suppression as grounds. Then there's Jessie Jackson and Conyers who seem to be fully aware that there was widespread intimidation of black voters.

We won't forget this.

[Pepper32]

42. You say, "We won't forget this" . I certainly hope you're right.

I know I NEVER will.

Thanks for your response. :hi:

[smartvoter]

35. Well, I suppose this is no better but I think they "happen" to do

it in minority areas because it's one of the few ways to identify Democrats. They did the same thing on college campuses -- it's isolating a group that is likely to vote against you and retarding that vote.

Now that I've said this, and this is a sensitive subject, let me be clear that it in NO WAY absolves them. The willingness to use race as a tool for disenfranchising Democrats is reprehensible.

[Pepper32]

55. I understand...

...what their goal was during this election, all the more reasons why we need to address this issue now.

I fear their mission is far more ruthless, than just stealing the election.

It appears this is only be the beginning of them using Jim Crow tactics to get their "ideal AMERICA."

Just recently, GA Supreme Court Ruled to strike down it's hate Crime law. http://www.adl.org/PresRele/HatCr_51/4580_51.htm?&MSHiC=1252&L=10&W=GEORGIAN+GEORG+GEORGE+georgia+GEORGIANS+GEORGIAS+GEORGIE+GEORGY+GEORGIABASED+&Pre=%3CFONT+STYLE%3D%22color%3A+%23000000%3B+background%2Dcolor%3A+%23FFFF00%22%3E&Post=%3C%2FFONT%3E

www.adl.og
(a great site to stay informed about hate crimes etc)

School Segregation on the Rise
http://www.aflcio.org/issuespolitics/civilrights/ns01262004.cfm

Bush record on civil rights
http://www.aflcio.org/aboutaflcio/magazine/upload/bushwatch_civilandhumanrights.pdf


I just can't help but to notice things are getting worse.

Again, I have seen some very alarming Bills introduced to the House and so far no one is making any noise about them.

Here is a few BILLS I am keeping an eye on:

You can look up any of these laws here http://house.gov/

(The fact this Bill is even needed is disturbing)
H.CON.RES.130 : Expressing the sense of the Congress that neither the President, the Vice President, nor any Member of Congress, justice or judge of the United States, or political appointee in the executive branch of the Government should belong to a club that discriminates on the basis of sex or race.
Sponsor: Rep Maloney, Carolyn B. (introduced 3/31/2003) Cosponsors (47)
Committees: House Government Reform; House House Administration; House Judiciary
Latest Major Action: 5/5/2003 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on the Constitution.

(Just hope this pass)
H.RES.793 : Condemning all efforts to suppress and intimidate voters in the United States and reaffirming that the right to vote is a fundamental right of all eligible United States citizens.
Sponsor: Rep Watson, Diane E. (introduced 9/22/2004) Cosponsors (51)
Committees: House Judiciary; House House Administration
Latest Major Action: 9/22/2004 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the Committee on the Judiciary, and in addition to the Committee on House Administration, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned.

(You really need to read this one for yourself)
H.J.RES.25 : Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the 22nd amendment to the Constitution.
Sponsor: Rep Hoyer, Steny H. (introduced 2/25/2003) Cosponsors (7)
Committees: House Judiciary
Latest Major Action: 3/6/2003 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on the Constitution.

(Umm, yeah right. They will drag there feet on this one)
H.RES.629 : Impeaching Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense.
Sponsor: Rep Rangel, Charles B. (introduced 5/6/2004) Cosponsors (4)
Committees: House Judiciary
Latest Major Action: 5/20/2004 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on the Constitution.

(Think B*sh & Co. will look favorly upon this one?)
H.CON.RES.102 : Expressing the sense of Congress that Congress has the sole and exclusive power to declare war.
Sponsor: Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila (introduced 3/19/2003) Cosponsors (1)
Committees: House International Relations
Latest Major Action: 3/19/2003 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on International Relations.

(I hope this pass because they just passed a bill that requires mandatory Mental Health Screening for our kids, so if they get put on the blue pill there goes their voting rights)
H.R.4250 : To amend the National Voter Registration Act of 1993 to require States to provide notice and an opportunity for review prior to removing any individual from the official list of eligible voters by reason of criminal conviction or mental incapacity.
Sponsor: Rep Price, David E. (introduced 4/29/2004) Cosponsors (30)
Committees: House House Administration
Latest Major Action: 4/29/2004 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on House Administration.

(They will drag their feet on this one too, yet they can introduce and pass multi-billion dollar bill over the weekend)
H.R.3809 : To restore, reaffirm, and reconcile legal rights and remedies under civil rights statutes.
Sponsor: Rep Lewis, John (introduced 2/11/2004) Cosponsors (102)
Committees: House Judiciary; House Education and the Workforce; House Transportation and Infrastructure
Latest Major Action: 3/11/2004 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Education Reform

(Hope this pass for obvious reasons)
H.R.2935 : To provide fairness in voter participation.
Sponsor: Rep Davis, Danny K. (introduced 7/25/2003) Cosponsors (1)
Committees: House Judiciary
Latest Major Action: 9/4/2003 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on the Constitution.

(Can you believe this Bill was introduced last year and still has not passed?)
H.R.2239 : To amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002 to require a voter-verified permanent record or hardcopy under title III of such Act, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Holt, Rush D. (introduced 5/22/2003) Cosponsors (157)
Committees: House House Administration
Latest Major Action: 5/22/2003 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on House Administration.

(Yeah right, this will pass)
H.R.2090 : To limit the redistricting that States may do after an apportionment of Representatives.
Sponsor: Rep Waters, Maxine (introduced 5/14/2003) Cosponsors (19)
Committees: House Judiciary
Latest Major Action: 6/25/2003 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on the Constitution.

(Yet another bill that was introduced last year that could have made a difference in the outcome of this election, and yet it's still sitting there)
H.R.1941 : To enforce the guarantees of the first, fourteenth, and fifteenth amendments to the Constitution of the United States by prohibiting certain devices used to deny the right to participate in certain elections.
Sponsor: Rep Paul, Ron (introduced 5/1/2003) Cosponsors (None)
Committees: House House Administration
Latest Major Action: 5/1/2003 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on House Administration.

(Only 3 Cosponsors?)
H.R.80 : To enhance Federal enforcement of hate crimes, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila (introduced 1/7/2003) Cosponsors (3)
Committees: House Judiciary
Latest Major Action: 3/6/2003 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security.

(Really hope this pass)
H.RES.793 : Condemning all efforts to suppress and intimidate voters in the United States and reaffirming that the right to vote is a fundamental right of all eligible United States citizens.
Sponsor: Rep Watson, Diane E. (introduced 9/22/2004) Cosponsors (51)
Committees: House Judiciary; House House Administration
Latest Major Action: 9/22/2004 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the Committee on the Judiciary, and in addition to the Committee on House Administration, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned.

(Yeah right, as if their giving up Diebold)
H.RES.797 : Recognizing the importance of implementing any and all measures necessary to ensure a democratic, transparent, and fair election process for the 2004 Presidential election.
Sponsor: Rep Johnson, Eddie Bernice (introduced 9/23/2004) Cosponsors (8)
Committees: House House Administration
Latest Major Action: 9/23/2004 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on House Administration.

(WOW, no cosponsors)
H.RES.515 : Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that Congress and the States should act to end racial profiling.
Sponsor: Rep Bell, Chris (introduced 2/4/2004) Cosponsors (None)
Committees: House Judiciary
Latest Major Action: 3/1/2004 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security.

(umm, I just don't know what to feel about this Bill)
S.2190 : A bill to implement equal protection under the 14th article of amendment to the Constitution for the right to life of each born and preborn human person.
Sponsor: Sen Inhofe, Jim (introduced 3/10/2004) Cosponsors (2)
Committees: Senate Judiciary
Latest Major Action: 3/10/2004 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary.

(another I'm not sure about)
H.R.579 : To implement equal protection under the 14th article of amendment to the Constitution for the right to life of each born and preborn human person from the moment of fertilization.
Sponsor: Rep Hunter, Duncan (introduced 2/5/2003) Cosponsors (10)
Committees: House Judiciary
Latest Major Action: 5/5/2003 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on the Constitution.

[Razorback_Democrat]

31. Very true!

Some of the craziest arguments I've ever had were online-e-mail arguments where the tone was misinterpreted, and that cast a shadow on the meaning.

Example: several years ago I sent an e-mail in ALL CAPS to my old boss not knowing that this meant "screaming" in an e-mail.

Needless to say that didn't go over well, the whole point I was trying to make was lost in the response: "Did you know that all caps is screaming?"

Anyway, to make a long story short!

I AGREE!

[Withywindle]

24. Thank you.

This newbie had been lurking for a while before the election, but it was after that I joined--simply wanted more people to talk to about the fishy smell of it all and the absolute devastation I felt. That's it really, as ulterior motives go.

Not a Freeper. Total yellow-dog. Lost my voting virginity to Jesse Jackson in the '88 primary. I also will probably never have a huge post count either. I'm just not really "chatty" that way. Nothing wrong with the "ask me anything" threads and all that, it's just not my thing.

It's interesting to read about the whole Seventhson ordeal, though. Pathetic on his part. What a great achievement--NOT. A betrayal like explains a lot about the paranoia I've seen; something like that really messes with you. Just don't let it close you off to honest newbies, even the ones who say things that might seem unnecessarily inflammatory or unbelievably naive. Lots of people have agitated emotions and plenty of Bad Thoughts running through our heads right now.

[pipes]

25. I lurked forever before posting...am I a newbie?

I have what 30 some posts been registered here since before the selection and pick and choose my posts, although I have been posting more lately!

DU is a place for people to go when they feel that the rest of the world is a whacko ass place and that they have noone who feels as they do.

If there are freepers, and no doubt there are, not like this is the www or something....fuckem! Who cares let them flame away and post there bullshit, we are all people who should know enough to just ignore them.

I tell my kids all the time to ignore the one who is causing problems...so everyone say it with me, "fukem!"

[Tace]

47. Fuck 'Em

[Vote4Kerry]

26. Agree..better to have too much information than not enough

Lots of good research gets posted on this site from everybody, including newbies. I think we should give everyone a say.

[Mastiff]

34. I tried to discuss disagreements over at Freepers.

They didn't want any disagreements with the Party Line. I got blown out of the water. I have always voted Republican because of 2nd Amendment issues(If the Democrats changed their stance on gun control, there would be a lot more Democratic voters). I spend most of my time on another site because I can actually discuss things without getting hit by the right wing flamethrowers. I hope this site will allow anyone to present their points. Having factual backup for those points would be good, rather than just calling someone a freeper.
I voted Kerry in this election. I am rabidly anti-Bush. I might start voting Democratic from here on out. What passes for Republican these days would have Goldwater rolling over in his grave.

[Razorback_Democrat]

45. Welcome to DU Mastiff!

from one newbie to another!

:bounce:

[Tace]

48. You Must Vote For Whom You Wish -- And Free Speech Should Be Respected

here. I, for one, want to hear your thoughts. Cheers.

[grumpy44]

37. Election Fraud info I can't find anywhere else

DU has the best sources of info.

[Psyop Samurai]

38. Hi, smartvoter...

...and other thoughtful people, new and old.

DU is ground zero for democracy, and smart, concerned people have found their way here.

I'm mostly content to read and learn, but have no reservation about chiming in if the mood strikes me. I don't feel compelled to fall all over myself to prove some kind of loyalty.

:hi:

[Jimr]

39. From a newbie to all of you fighting the good fight.

From a newbie to all of you fighting the good fight.

"Villanelle For Our Time"

From bitter searching of the heart,
Quickened with passion and with pain
We rise to play a greater part.
This is the faith from which we start:
Men shall know commonwealth again
From bitter searching of the heart.
We loved the easy and the smart,
But now, with keener hand and brain,
We rise to play a greater part.
The lesser loyalties depart,
And neither race nor creed remain
From bitter searching of the heart.
Not steering by the venal chart
That tricked the mass for private gain,
We rise to play a greater part.
Reshaping narrow law and art
Whose symbols are the millions slain,
From bitter searching of the heart
We rise to play a greater part.

Words by Frank Scott (1899-1985)
Music by Leonard Cohen

[Tace]

49. Yowza -- Great Poem -- And, I'm Only Now Getting Hip To Leonard Cohen

[Pepper32]

60. Inspiring Poem, thanks! n/t

[Proud to be blue]

40. I'm new and you are correct

I have been lurking around DU since before the election. I never joined until today due to feeling quit a bit unintelligent and not resourceful enough as most of you all. I know I may not be able to contribute to the mathematical theories or some of the research you all do. However I have been trying to do what I can and that is email and call the addys posted to flood them with info on this past (stolen) election in hopes to get them to listen, report, and most of all investigate. I am appalled at the extent the media is ignoring this issue and even Keith Oberman has resulted to just a min or two. We do live in a Democracy right? I am tired of seeing or hearing "get over it". Why should we? Isn't this America? Is Democracy not important? I am afraid of having W for four more years. What else may we sacrifice for his own power trip and mistakes? I thank the good Lord my son (19)sees the error in W's ways and that he has rethought his decision to join the Military due to W. He doesn't want to fight a war that shouldn't be and he believes (as well as I) that W will take us elsewhere where we don't belong. I am proud to tell others that when the US Gov called to speak to my son about enlisting in the Armed Forces, he proudly stated, "I will not serve under George W. Bush the illegitimate President of the United States".

I just wanted to let you know that there are probably other lurkers like me who just sit back and read the boards and do follow the letter and call requests given by others. I also wanted to let you all know how much I appreciate all the hard work and time you all donate. It's a precious gift to give and you are doing it for Democracy and I applaud you. Keep up the fight!!!!!!

[mom cat]

43. I am proud to be in an organization that is attracting such wonderful

new members as yourself. Welcome to DU! :hi:
I also wanted to say how inspired I am by your son's decision. That takes real courage...Tell him that mom cat thinks that he is a "real man". And as for you, I bet that at least some of your son's wisdom comes from a caring mom who stays informed. Your brief post was so genuing and real that it brought tears to my eyes. DU needs those qualities every bit as much, or even more than analytical skills and brilliant political analysis. You bring that to our group and we are all stronger for it. :yourock:

[Tace]

51. Proud to be blue -- What A Really Great 1st Post!

Very, very moving. Post some more 'eh?

[Proud to be blue]

62. Thanks for the welcome

You made me feel like I should of joined and posted months and months ago. I will try to post more and hope that at some point I will be able to contribute more than just a cheer to applaud your hard work and efforts. However, I always wanted to be a cheerleader. Keep up the good work everyone!!!!!

To Pepper32 and all the people that have a loved one or friend serving in the Military. My heart and prayers are there for you and yours. May they all come home in good health and get home soon!!

[Pepper32]

57. Great post...

Unfortunately, my brother (24) was duped into joining the Marines right after graduating high school.

I pray everyday that they do not call him, he doesn't even want to discuss it. He has a 2yr old son and I know he never wants to leave him. Not even for one day. The thought alone is just...


I'm at a lost for words.

[lonestarnot]

50. Hi

I'm new to this thang...too but I'm not a new Democrat. Have been one all my damn life and I don't give a fook who freeps or creeps, but I am smart enough to know when someone is feeding me full of disinformation. Moderators have a job to do, so if my posts are deleted, well maybe I broke a rule, or the moderator was following his (rules). Not the end of my world. Anyone who works for a living and votes for a repulsive has to be not connecting their vote with the reality of their life... but a democrat who votes and doesn't have his vote count has disrupted MY ENTIRE LIFE! I have been living and breathing forums, reading every liberal paper column, all web info I have time for reading, and I am convinced we have been robbed! I visit here because I feel that this place represents a community who feels the same way I do, that America is coming apart in the worst way and we must absolutely stop it the best way we can and organize efforts toward that end. We will not be steam rolled into slave labor by the elitists and corporate freaks just because they think they can. They have backed us up against the wall this time with their openly yet secret coop. We will get to the bottom of this sooner or later and I will not give up until we do.

[Tace]

52. I Feel The Same Way

[operafred]

54. i found du through links here and there and am i ever glad i did

i used to get much my info re the elections at buzzflash.com and i still check in there daily, but i must say say that here in du, there is more real digging going on for real change. i've also noticed that some of the info i'm finding here takes about two days to get to buzzflash

it's my sincere hope that the ground swell that i've been feeling of building public pressure this past week or two will become a tsunami and wash bush out of the white house for good.

[prairierose]

56. I'm new here to....

I came here before the election occasionally to read the forums but when I woke up Nov 3 & realized that the bad news wasn't a dream, the networks actually called it for * & the guy I had been working for lost too...I had to come back. This place is the one place that consistently gives me hope. Because of the smart people here, because of the research in voting fraud & suppression that is coordinated here, because of the people who want to discuss the message we send & the future of whatever may come from the dem party. I haven't yet been called a freeper but that may be because I am a "commie,pinko, liberal, treehugger" as we were called so many years ago & that comes through in my rhetoric. Oh & I forgot hippie!

But I want to say to all of the new people that I hope that you will learn here as I have & give people a chance to get to know you. I think that many people are just plain scared right now. & many are also worried about the possibility of dirty tricks being played here too. I don't post much but I read a lot and that is the subtext that I see much of the time.

[greatscott15]

59. Been Infrequent Visitor until Lately

I found this site a while back and came by every now and then to check on things. Got hooked on it in the weeks leading up to the election. On Nov 3rd, I kind of "checked out" for a few days. Pretty bummed out and all. Thought is was all over. Bush had clearly won.

Then I happened back here and saw the new forum and all the activity. Got me excited again. Can't seem to stay away from reading. Now I am getting up the "courage" to start posting a little. Unfortunately, I cannot be very active right now due to some personal issues. But I will lend moral and some financial support where I can.

Keep the faith everyone.

[Spiffarino]

61. Thanks for saying that.

It must be "electoral trauma" that's causing so many otherwise decent people to be so inclined to label newbies as freepers.

I've found myself getting into the act in small ways, too. It's time to end the infighting and play nice. If I don't like a poster, I use the wonderful ingnore feature that Skinner has made available. It's a very useful little tool and it will help keep your blood pressure nice and steady.

The mods do a great job of keeping order. If somebody looks freepish hit "Alert" and go on your merry way. Accusatory language and anger only serves the interests of those who want us to disappear. No way we can let that happen.

If are going to thrive we have to be real Democrats. That means being the big tent party, not the exclusive club of the GOP. If you love liberty, justice and fundamental fairness, you've come to the right place.

Welcome, smartvoter. I'm glad you have a thick skin. We need more like you around this place.

[m berst]

63. I disagree

"I keep seeing challenges to new people, labeling them as Freepers."

Certainly people do keep saying that this is happening, but I am seeing exactly the opposite happening.

I am seeing a lot of long time and well respected DUers being accused through innuendo when they question the authenticity or value of some of the information that has been posted recently about the election. Many of the ones making these innuendos happen to be newer members, ironically.

So it seems to me that it is precisely the reverse of what you are saying.

Just my opinion.

[merbex]

65. I have told AT LEAST 10-15 people about this site since election day

5 have told me since that they LOVE this site.I haven't seen or spoken to others yet.

Now consider,if they told 5 people who told 5 people....

You get the idea

[cilla4progress]

66. As well..

I came here after the election, also. Needed a place to vent, read, learn and share with others about what I sensed and now believe was a stolen election.

I've been mostly gratified and impressed with the posts and the tone. There are some, however - often seem to be confined within individual threads - which are clearly just venting or folks with a lot of time on their hands and the need to communicate, share, have fun. That's ok, too, even if it's not my interest. It's simple to skip around and bypass those and head where my interest takes me. I prefer the most the more thoughtful, intelligent and positive threads, like this one.

I'm real interested to see where the voter fraud activism ends up. I hope we aren't proved to be a bunch of "tin-foil hatters" (I believe I now understand this term...) as to our more cloak-and-dagger theories, but at the very least we do know there was disenfranchisement in the lower income and urban neighborhoods with long waiting lines, too few machines and ballot challenges / provisional ballots.

Thanks du.

[Razorback_Democrat]

68. As someone who's been warned by the moderator

to not call someone a freeper

I'd like to apologize to anyone that I called a freeper.

I'd also like to say that this is a very tense time.

I will be hitting the alert button when I am suspicious about a poster's intentions.

I won't call anyone a freeper.

Please don't call me paranoid.

Karl Rove would like us all fighting without weapons.