Kerry should not be the face of "Take Back The Election" Movement

[VTGold]

Its as it should be.

These were our votes and we are fighting for them.

We're fighting for ourselves and for our country - not for Kerry.

The Repugs have attacked the people - not Kerry. We're fighting back.


I asked DU if we could set up a 50 state category within this Election forum so we could organize geographically on this issue alone. We'll see what they say.

[Pirate Smile]

1. I agree. They would just attack Kerry and distract from the real issue.

[clydefrand]

3. My thoughts exactly since this entire call for a recount started.

If Kerry gets involved very much, then HE becomes the scapegoat, sore loser for the repugs to throw dirt on. I've never thought he needed to get too involved for this reason. And I do think he's working behind the scenes.

[AmerDem]

2. "Kerry should not be the face of "Take Back The Election" Movement"

Apparently he's taking your advice. He hasn't been seen and only barely heard since Nov. 3.

[New Earth]

4. did you ever think, just once

that his reason for it is as exactly as stated in the original post in this thread?

[AmerDem]

9. That has been the problem with our entire party

People like Kerry monitor polls and movements before taking a step on decision making. This country needs someone to stand up and say what they mean, mean what they say and take the fight head on to the repukes. Hell, look at what ammunition we have against these people. Over the last 5 years we had more incidences of corruption and purgery to make Nixon look like a saint but no one ever had the balls to step up to the plate. These aren't the actions of a real leader, they're more so the actions of an opportunist.

[European Socialist]

14. I agree

Kerry needs to come out swinging. There is no risk for him. The voter suppression is already fact-electronic fraud is very probable since the repukes didn't want paper trails. If nothing else we need the people who voted for him to know the election was stolen. Even if Bush gets a second term he would be very weakened.

[bitchkitty]

26. That would be true except for one thing -

Our media has no integrity. He's doing the right thing.

[AmerDem]

28. "Our media has no integrity"

all the more reason for the Dem talking heads to have the integrity and speak out whenever given the chance. The corporate whore media can only hide so much.

[VTGold]

6. Yeah, but its smart because they can't attack him for being "selfish" & ..

...and in 2008 (if there is a 2008) he won't have the cry baby loser look to him. By then they'll have tons of proof and create so much doubt about the repugs. Kerry will be a shoe-in. Everything he predicted re: the draft and social security are already coming to pass.

Of course if we have success now he can truly say this was the will of the people.

[AmerDem]

18. "they can't attack him for being "selfish""

Who gives a flying f_ck what repukes think at this point. This comment expresses exactly what my gripe is in all of this. Why should we care what they think? We are now supposed to worry what a collective group of corrupt war criminals think about our party and what we stand for? When they make such slanderous accusation is the time we are to bring out all the information we have on them.

[shraby]

19. It's not just what a "collective group of

corrupt war criminals" think. It's what the news media will do with it. The news media shapes public thinking. Do you really believe they will say anything positive about Kerry if he leads the recount? They will crucify him day after day after day. Every day from the start of the recount until its over.
I don't want to see that happen, and I don't think others here do either.

[AmerDem]

23. you know what

If the message got out to every so called Democratic talking head to just let loose at every opportunity about every lie,every once of fraud, every stolen vote the corporate mews wouldn't be able to filter it all and there wouldn't be anyone left from our side to appear (if they banned them). Do you see how this would go? By just stepping up and be honest and direct the message gets thru. Hiding behind intimidation and peer pressure is beyond weakness and it will never be overcome. To think otherwise is playing directly into what they want.

[renaissanceguy]

27. I have to agree.

The media ruined Howard Dean a la "I have a scream" which was really not the lunatic scream that they made it out to be.


--------------------------------
Kerry REALLY won Ohio and the election. Buy Recount, anti-Bush, and liberal stuff at www.cafepress.com/liberalissues

[understandinglife]

5. I disagree. The most potent leader would be Senator Kerry, IF...

...he had the courage to do as I've requested. See letter below.

I do agree with you that the current status of this election is that it is not about Senator Kerry winning (or Mr Bush losing), it is about the fact that many of our fellow citizens were suppressed in their efforts to participate in the American franchise of democracy and the fact that none of us who were able to vote have any reason for confidence that our vote was counted as we intended.

We already know enough to know that the 2004 national election process is INVALID. The process must be halted on or before 6 Jan 2005 and we must establish an equitable mechanism of access to vote and an indisputable, verified mechanism for counting the vote.

Anything less and we are a totalitarian state.

Thus, my letter to Senator Kerry on 30 November 2004:
__________________________________________

Honorable Senator John F. Kerry
US Senate
BY FAX: [phone] & 617.248-3870
30 November 2004
Dear Senator Kerry,

Subject: W 2: Democracy O-ver ?

I ask you two questions:

1. Are we prepared to let that happen?

2. Who is the only person who can lead an effort to change the score to W out: Democracy, the Winner?

I can answer the first question only for myself, obviously. The answer is No.

In my opinion the only person who can lead all of us to the only victory that matters is you, Senator Kerry. I urge you to realize that fact and the fact that it is better to make a valiant attempt now rather than deluding ourselves that we are going to get another chance. Because, foul ball, strike 1 was 2000; foul ball, strike 2 was 2002; foul-tip was 2 Nov 2004, and we can't wait for the next pitch for several obvious reasons.

Our opponent truly controls the scoreboard, owns the field, and has been showing our Democracy the exit since 9 Dec 2000. We must refuse to leave; we must insist that the third pitch was no different than 1 and 2 -- spitballs.

Thus, Senator Kerry we all need to focus.

We must assert that the only 'winners' in a franchise of democracy are supposed to be the stakeholders, the citizens, who irrespective of what happened to their candidate, got to swing at legal pitches and didn't have the score changed from 3 to 0, and reported as a mandate.

Senator Kerry you cannot truly 'win' no matter what the numbers in OH, or FL, or..., happen to be.

Why do I say that without reservation -- well, let's reflect on what would it mean for you to "win" the current "election"?

What exactly would you and our Democracy be winning?

An HR and Senate controlled by Republicans; an intractable Iraq; a close to collapsing debt structure; a fanatical bunch of neocons who'd never let up; a voting system that you would not be able to reform because of the intransigence you would face from a Republican controlled Congress; a media that has shown zero interest in finding the truth, in defending the disenfranchised, and on and on.
You and your fellow patriots would arrive at 2006 and face a disaster that would make Newt's ravage of the Democrats in 1994 look like child's play.

In my opinion, you and Senator Edwards have only one realistic option - declare the current election process invalid, demand a comprehensive audit and commit to one of two outcomes:

1. Audit shows Bush 'won,' so be it;

2. Audit shows you 'won,' then you demand a re-vote using a fair and legitimate system and you abide by the outcome.

I am suggesting that you and Edwards take the type of courageous and selfless action that might just rescue our democracy franchise.
You need to call the spitball for what it was in 2000, and in 2002 and on 2 Nov 2004 -- a systematic attack on our Constitutional rights and our value proposition to all of humanity.

You, along with all of us who are dedicated to our Democracy, should not waste another second trying to 'win' something that simply cannot legitimately be 'won'; the other team not only breaks the rules, they control the scoring process, the umpires and the media.

Senator Kerry you must lead from a position of selfless service to the franchise.

From that vantage, with that sudden jolt to everyone's attention, you will have earned the moral and patriotic authority required to convince millions of Americans to shout -- "Halt, prove to us our vote was counted as we intended. And, for all those who were prevented from voting, let them vote, now.

Rev Jackson got a bit of attention yesterday by saying 'fine with win and lose, but let's count first.'

Just imagine what would happen Senator if you said 'we have nothing to win, we have everything to lose if we first do not determine exactly what happened in this election and if we do not insist that those who were disenfranchised are permitted to express their vote before anyone claims to be the Next President of the United States of America.'

And, just imagine the power and credibility you would have if you stood before all the Nation, at Independence Hall in Philadelphia and committed pledged yourself to this commitment:
'Even if the numbers swing in our favor, the current system is so bankrupt that we will insist on a re-vote, using a fair, legitimate process to ensure that whomever then 'wins' will truly have done so knowing that every eligible voter is confident that they had equivalent access to vote and confidence that their vote was counted exactly as they intended.'

Senator Kerry history is happening and it is a broad, black stroke being painted over our Constitution, our heritage and our credibility -- if you do not lead now, in a way no less dramatic and courageous as the Founders, as Lincoln and as FDR, our franchise is over.

I will be there next to you; I will take as many hits as I can withstand to protect you; I will die at your side and, at 57 years of age and having witnessed as an MD exactly what death is, I assure you, these are not idol or idealistic words. This is a commitment from someone who fully recognizes that we either halt the next pitch or what we call "America" is no longer a democracy franchise.

Awaiting orders, Senator Kerry.


xxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Halt, Audit & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"

__________________________________

This letter was also sent to Senators Feinstein, Boxer, Feingold, Murray, Cantwell, Kennedy, Byrd, Lautenberg and Congressman Conyers and Congresswoman Pelosi -- urging them to step forward with Senator Kerry and announce to the Nation that everyone loses, the American franchise of Democracy is LOST, if we do not halt the current, invalid process.

Peace.

[VTGold]

8. I wrote him too - begged him to show himself - said we needed to see him..

...but I've been thinking a little differently since.

He wasn't overwhelmingly powerful before the Election.

The Repugs are calling us cry babies - if Kerry were the face of this he would just be the biggest target - the biggest cry baby.

The best face to get this into the public arena is Jessie Jackson because racism still touches a nerve in this country (who knows for how much longer). I don't see how the media can ignore racism.

If they hold hearings in OH - and African-Americans get up and testify to what was done to them - it will be all over the news (I pray).

I'll be 40 next summer and I've never had to stand in line to vote for more than 5 minutes in my life. I've lived in NYC, the burbs and now VT.

I admit racism won't be enough to hold the attention of the media for long but it will at least get other Dems to notice - I can't tell you how many Democrats I know that have NO idea what is going on.

[ClassWarrior]

10. The only way this would work would be IF...

...JK really did have a band of Congressional brothers and sisters to stand with him, as you suggest. Feinstein, Boxer, Feingold, Murray, Cantwell, Kennedy, Byrd, Lautenberg, Conyers, Pelosi - and I'd add Durbin, Dorgan, Corzine, and a host of others. That's the only way to avoid turning this into another excuse for shouts of Sore Losermann.

See this thread that suggests "flipping the Senator problem:"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=131829&mesg_id=131829&page=

NGU.

[understandinglife]

12. I agree and I think that Senator Kerry....

....if he is the leader many of us surmise he is, and if he were to take such action, might well find that some of his Republican colleagues in the Senate and in the HR would step to his side.

We know of the prominent Republicans who endorsed him prior to the election -- solid, staunch, no-nonsense Republicans who recognized the scale of the crisis our Nation is confronting.

Now, imagine what those Republicans must be thinking after the past 5 weeks of behavior from the current administration.

Then, place that behavior in the context of the Constitutional crisis represented by the systematic disenfranchisement for which we already have ample evidence.

Place it in the context that ~ 30 % of our fellow citizens voted using a device that does not provide an unambiguous, secure mechanism for validating that their vote was counted as they intended.

I do think that if Senator Kerry were to stand in front of the Nation and do what is recommended in the letter -- demand a halt, an unambiguous examination of what happened on 2 Nov 2004 and a re-vote, he would prevail.

The only real winner at this moment is our franchise if we defend it.

Senator Kerry can save the franchise, retire from the field and be one of the greatest heroes in our Nation's history. That is the role I am urging him to seize and make stick. He will have millions of Americans at his side if he does.

Once again, the losers if the current national election is allowed to proceed are 'we the people'; we will no longer be 'a more perfect union.' We will be minions in a totalitarian state.

Peace.

Peace.

[americanwhothinks]

7. LOVE the 50 state category idea! DU talk--> DU walk! n/t

[proudtobeadem]

11. That is a great idea!

[AtLiberty]

13. I don't recall it doing Gore any good...

...to be part of the fight in Florida in 2000.

Just the opposite.

But I do wish other Democratic leaders would step up to the plate.

[McCamy Taylor]

15. except the federal courts would intervene if he asked them to..

...at least this is the impression i got from the hearings yesterday

Cant he at least say "I dont think I won, but I am going to put my name on this legal challenge to help out the people who want to see that all the votes are counted"?

[VTGold]

16. Yeah, but I think Americans are tired of seeing Political Parties....

...fight eachother.

This truly is We The People against a faction of really bad powerful people.

We'll get alot more broadbased support from moderate repugs that way and unfortunately we need their support.

[Hobbes199]

17. Whatever, I still feel cheated.

[Dr Ron]

20. It's not (only) about Kerry

If this was a Kerry fight, then the media would treat it as a meaningless battle assuming that the recount still shows Bush won (which is likley as the recount does not address issues such as voter suppression). The issue would soon be forgotten.

It is necessary to fight this based upon princples of how a fair election should be conducted, regardless of the winner.

While it would be fantastic if this leads to reversing the election results, that is also hightly unlikley. We need to also look towards the future and hopefully use this for some real election reforms.

It sure says a lot about Republican one party rule when the United States is fighting battles over having fair elections.

[zann725]

21. I agree. And did anyone else notice...

that both Arnebeck (AFD) and Bonifaz (VRI) are attorneys with MASSACHUSETTS organizations, one based in Boston, and one in Waltham, Mass. While these attorneys are on the surface working for Green or other candidates, still...

We should trust and believe he is doing the best he can...while we do ALL we can as well!:kick:

[VTGold]

22. true true - feelin' better all the time :)

[Eloriel]

24. Look around. There already is a 50-state forum. n/t

[Imagevision]

25. Kerry is doing fine!...Ohio recount will get done-that's all we need

And there will be NO time limit...innauguration to be put on hold if necessary!...