Went to a Democratic Christmas Party last night with all kinds of Dems

[saracat]

There were moderates and liberals. There were conservatives. They were all united in one thing. We "lost " the election. And while there was probably fraud, we need to move on. They believe pursuing election fraud will"hurt "us. They also believe that all the anger at the Party is really temporary and snicker, "they will come back. They ( angry progressives )have "nowhere else to go"! . The contempt for Move On was almost unanimous. I am absolutely furious at this attitude. Even the most liberal people within the Party aren't remotely interested in election reform and are already concentrating on 2008. No one was even aware of Cliff Arnebeck and the Ohio recount! And these were our most active and top ranking Dems! I am becoming a pariah as the result of wanting to make change. Even the ACLU people said "forget about it". I am very angry and disheartened today!

[helderheid]

1. Keep the faith

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.”
-Margaret Mead

[righteous1]

2. Well move-on got my ire up with the "we bought it, we own it "

statement. Ill timed and grandiose statement

[saracat]

5. At least it wasn't as bad as the Al From WSJ Op E d

"We don't want the Democratic Party identified by fringe elements like Move On and Micheal Moore."

[righteous1]

6. Yes, extremely insulting n/t

[Darkhawk32]

3. That doesn't shock me in the least...

The Democratic party thinks that knocking on doors, grassroots movements, etc, etc is the antidote against Republican fraud.

Couple of clicks to gain 51% of the vote fraudulently > Millions of hours of grassroots work

This crap needs fixing ASAP.

[newyawker99]

27. Hi Darkhawk32!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[elizm]

4. What's up with that?

I'm finding the same thing...They are 'part of the problem' and not part of the solution. It is SO frustrating..not to mention depressing!

[Darkhawk32]

7. I agree it IS frustrating......

We need to learn to start kicking some asses or else the Democratic party will be no more in less than twenty years.

We need outgoing FIGHTERS like Randi Rhodes to be brought forward even more within the media. We need to lessen the influence of the meak-voiced people like Al Franken. I agree with Franken's assessments most of the time, but he just not forceful enough to penetrate people's thought process.

I've thought about running for office, but I'm too hot-headed for it and I wouldn't hold any punches with the media nor opponents.

[Pithy Cherub]

8. Ouch! You have to do it the old fashioned way

one Dem at a time. Think largely of the most successful movements started with opposition from those who were thought to be allies at first. We are definitely at that stage of the event. :pals:

[Yupster]

35. Pat Robertson as role model

Pat Robertson thought the Christian fundamentalists were ignored by the Republican Party in the 80's.

In 1988 they organized small groups to take over precinct conventions throughout the country. Since the average precinct convention has about four people showing up, it was easy to do.

They nominated their own list of candidates for the county conventions, then the state conventions and little by little took over most state Republican Parties.

It was all done quietly, and democratically, and it pretty much worked.

Same thing can work here.

[RaulVB]

9. Why are you frustrated?

I have not met a "mainstream Democrat" ever on my life, I doubt I ever will and their "establishment like" talk is out of touch with what is going on right now.

This crisis will slap them on the face. Some will never recover from the blow, and I couldn't care less.

[joeunderdog]

55. Scarey knowing * is going after Soc Sec, Supreme Court, tax base and

everything else that has made the country what it is. In 4 years, there'll be nothing left. Election reform will be like putting lipstick on a pig.

[Sydnie]

10. Yet, they have the balls to

hold a forum that they televise on C-SPAN and say that whom ever they select to run the DNC MUST be good at FUND RAISING! Now, that is balls. They don't care that they didn't win as long as the money keeps pouring in and piling up. They should have done what Kerry did and given the other $250,000 that was needed in WA. Instead, they send out and email asking for more money.

I have been a democrat since I was in the womb, born and bred from two democrats. My mother, in her later life replaced the D next to her name with an R. I didn't understand it. Maybe now, I am getting a glimpse as to why.

They keep this shit up and we WILL make another party a real player in this game... and they will have no one to blame but themselves.

[dmac]

52. That was one of the only satisfying things I have done

since the election. I have written every group and individual I supported financially and told them this well has dried up as far as they are concerned if they do not publicly get behind this issue.

Who knows if the people I wanted to read those messages ever will, but it made me feel better - and what's more - IT's TRUE.

[Niche]

11. Dems in Wash. have their HEADS UP THEIR ASS

and they are sadly mistaken if they lie down again like 2000 I WILL NEVER VOTE DEM AGAIN. My partner already said he wouldn't VOTE at all if they up their complicit behavior. A lot of liberals I know have said "Fuck them! What's the point?" Like the Socialist who followed Hilter - they will be destroyed by the Right. The right is RAT FUCKING, they don't care how they destroy the Dems - they just want to win. The DNC is starting to really piss me off.

[suziedemocrat]

12. I had the same experience BEFORE the election.

I was volunteering for the Dems in Indiana. I am a computer programmer and even before the election, I was very worried about the voting machines without a paper trail. I mentioned to the person running the Democratic office that I was worried about voter fraud and she totally dismissed me. The I made some calls to local people and one local guy went on and on about how he was worried about voter fraud in this election. She heard the conversation and seemed to think we were both crazy. Then the day of the election, I heard of people voting straight ticket - but their Presidential Vote went to Bush instead of Kerry, I told her and she dismissed me with a comment I couldn't hear and walked away.

I began to realize that I am farther left than most Democrats; which is weird, because I don't consider myself to be all that liberal, more middle of the road really.

I do think we should only go to war as a last resort when we are truly defending our nation, or protecting a people against genocide.

I do think the best thing about the United States of America is the Bill of Rights.

I do think you if you have Fraudulent elections, then you don't have a Democracy.

Do those simple ideas put me to the Left of BOTH mainstream Political parties in the U.S.? How Sad!!

To me the Democrats who dismiss this are courting disaster. But, I am old enough to remember when if you thought smoking caused cancer and didn't want people to smoke in you home, you were considered a pain in the ass. I remember when Doctors didn't think people should take vitamins, and they thought you were nutty if you did. Some people STILL don't believe in Global warming. A LOT of Americans (maybe even some Democrats) drive large cars and don't worry about how that affects US policy. I'm not sure we are all so liberal, maybe we are just more alert to what is going on.

[SmokingJacket]

34. Great post!

I'm not old enough to remember when people thought those things about smoking, but it rings true and makes me feel hopeful that one day issues like voter fraud might be part of the mainstream.

Maybe even soon.

[quiet.american]

13. This is why Bush "won"

These sort of people still labor under the delusion there WILL be a 2008 election that is winnable.

They still labor under the delusion that what Bushco has in store for this country is something short of hell on earth.

They are the sheeple. And they deserve their fate -- whatever it is Bushco has in store for them.

[xiamiam]

14. not getting over it this time..we did that before and look at this mess

we cannot wait four years...the planet as we know it will be unsalvageable...not to speak of international relations...their agenda is downright evil...and arrogant...and criminal...and it must be stopped now or we will never have another chance...without an internal revolution...this nonsense must be stopped now...we are in peril and some sheep dont get it...the blinders are available everywhere..please refuse to put them on....

[Stop Shrub]

15. lets get them signed up...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=142725&mesg_id=142725

please take this thread seriously it is a way to make a difference!

[Quakerfriend]

18. I am a rather conservative democrat

and I, too, am stunned at the attitude that says "Let it go until next time". The situation is really so blatantly straight forward:
Multiple counts of fraud + unverifiable voting done on insecure machines owned by party ops = undemocratic totally unAmerican election.

[Stop Shrub]

20. please sign up then

we need to organize as best we can!

[bleever]

16. They will see the light. It's up to us few candleholders to guard

the flame, to see it spread, and one day to find ourselves in a conversation with one of those "mainstream" dems and have them launch into a history of the vote fraud of '04.

And we can smile, and nod, and know that we got our job done.

We find ourselves in a unique position to actually know what has happened, and to believe that it can and must be discovered and rectified, and to have a community. Very few people, at this moment, are in our position.

So I say: keep working. Keep believing. The progress over the last few weeks has been incredible, and continues to be.

:thumbsup:

[stella2cat]

17. more of the all-too-pervasive non-confrontational attitude

don't let it get you down, there will always be a group of us that won't shut up B-)

[Quakerfriend]

19. Yeah, you are right

Then many won't want to admit that they were duped.

[marions ghost]

21. yes this will be the Test...

...can we weather the criticisms that would silence us on this issue? Coming from our own side it hurts even more. Thanks for putting your experience here, saracat, so we can see what we might be up against.

I think we have to realize that we who feel this way are going to
have to work against the tide for awhile. Because this is the hard road. But I think support will pick up if we can hang in. And we seem to have a very solid core around the country who "gets it"
JUST fine....noooooo problem!

I am going to work on voting reform with like-minded progressives rather than just Dems, and see where that goes. I can understand the people at the Dem Xmas party having a "let's get on with it" attitude, but I think there's NO EXCUSE for not knowing what's going on in Ohio and the Conyers hearing. Rampant vote suppression and auditless e-voting are both clear and immediate threats to democracy. Could it be that the Dems do not want fingers pointed at their own recent failings on voting issues? For one thing, how did HAVA allow for the spread of these auditless voting machines, and what was the Dems involvement in that at natl and state level?

Instead of just knuckling under to a "groupthink" mentality that makes us question our own sanity, what are we going to do about this? How can we meet these criticisms head on? Maybe we can discuss that Q a bit here if anyone has ideas...I dont have any perfect answers, but I know we have to meet this kind of persuasion with persuasion of our own.

[sled]

22. Party "leadership"???

The way I see it, the whole bunch...party "leaders", corporate media
(so-called journalists), etc. are just defending their own rice bowls.
It was never about the Kerry versus Bush, but was "Anybody but Bush"
versus Bush. The train had left the station, long before Kerry ever
tried to jump in front of the parade, & the coalition against Bush,
was much bigger, than the Dems, alone.

The rank & file Dems did an absolutely fantastic job, of registering
voters, getting out the vote, etc., but the Dem "leadership" failed
miserably. Move-On has every right, to demand something for the money
& time, they invested, & I can't blame them one bit, for calling a
duck, a duck. Where would the "leadership" have been without them???
Where would they have been without Michael Moore & "Fahrenheit
9/11"??? Would the "party leadership" have put 500,000 protesters, in
NYC, without the coalition, against Bush??

A lot of folks, of every political persuasion, came to the aid of the
Dems, cause that was the only logical game in town, given the current
political situation, in America, & they all turned out en masse, with
money, effort, & when it came time to vote, they voted the village
idiot, out of office. Exactly why I'll always believe, Jr. got
whupped, in a landslide. I saw, what I saw.

The only folks, in this whole effort, that failed, was the
"leadership" of the Democrat party, & they should all be ashamed, of
how they failed, whether it was to win the election, or protect
against the theft of the vote. A pitiful excuse, considering the good
people, they had out here in America, doing the truly "hard work".

I've witnessed a hell of a lot of elections, & I've never seen
anything like, the effort the rank & file Dems put out for this
election. Restored my faith in the American people. You guys have
nothing to be ashamed of, you performed magnificently.

That said, I think the only folks that need to take a long hard look
in the mirror, are these clowns, that purport to be the "leadership",
of the party. They led nobody, you guys did it on your own, & you
were fabulous. You are this party, whether those clowns in DC, like
it, or not. They're just trying to protect, their own self-interests,
as far as I'm concerned.

As for the rank & file, take a bow, every last one of you...you're
great, & you don't deserve the "leadership" you've been handed, by the
powers that be. If they don't stand up & fight, right now, as far as
I'm concerned, they are a bunch of "girlie men"...nothing but pasty-
faced Tucker Carlson clones, that aren't worth a bucket of cold
spit... The "leadership" needs to lead, follow, or get the hell out
of our way...there's a hell of a lot more of us, than there are of
them...it's about time they realized, this is what democracy looks
like & they need us, a hell of a lot more, than we need their sorry
asses...

It's a free country, & the Dem "leadership" doesn't have a birthright,
to anything, no matter how delusional, they may be...

Carry on!!! You guys were the bomb...& still are...

[EFerrari]

48. This year was amazing & here's to the day when "party leadership

isn't an oxymoron, like "California recall" or "Fox news".

[mbee]

23. Let them laugh all they want at Move On, but the can't survive at

all without the Grassroots members. They better join the Repug Party and maybe they will.

[Bread and Circus]

24. They just don't have any clue how powerless they are.

What they don't realize is that this is following the arc
of a trend that is ruinous for the Country and for U.S. democracy.
If they knew, they'd probably be as mad and angry as you.

[LiberalAndProud]

25. They don't know.

It's like a football game ... oh well, we'll get 'em next time. They positively do not understand just how evil the Bush cabal will become. The water keeps getting hotter and they just keep swimming. And there's always been cheating. No problem, right?

Frogs

Swimming

In Boiling Water

Until

Fully

Cooked

[jamboi]

26. Dang, that's a downer saracat. :-( n/t

[Lisabtrucking]

28. And where was this democrat party? Funny I wasn't invited.

[americanwhothinks]

29. Sounds like "one kind of dems" to me... some folks won't believe anything

until *everyone* believes it...

Many of these people are of the "name dropper," "where'd you go to school?" ilk--

ie, their minds are hierarchical...they buy into set, fixed, "official" paradigms,


they don't decide for themselves.

It's radical to think independently, to make critical distinctions that aren't yet embraced by the majority--

and many human beings are too afraid of "seeming strange" to step up and make a call for themselves.

This is a human thing, and I'm not surprised that (are you in DC?) many Dems-- most likely those who care a lot about the 'party line'-- are human in this respect.

Guts aren't order of human day-- if they were, Bush wouldn't get away with anything!! He depends upon rampant gutlessness!!

[johan helge]

30. It's important to distinguish between two things:

1 Do they support a good election process in the US?
2 Do they support pursuing election fraud in this election?

It should be possible to make them support the first thing. And no serious person can say that the US election process is serious! E-voting without a paper trail would be considered just a bad joke in any serious democracy. And paper ballots being read and counted only by machines - are you joking?

About the second thing: Do they really think that irregularities and indications of fraud should not be investigated? Why not?

[mod mom]

31. This why we are not getting the numbers at rallies

but remember we must unite against the repugs! The move on's (including the many 527's we helped build will just have to have egg on their faces in the near future. We need to work on educating them as info comes out NOT put a divide in the party.

[Lisabtrucking]

32. I still want to know where the party was? waiting n/t

[saracat]

40. Christmas Party at a private home!

[Vidar]

33. Bless you, saracat--nt.

[Freddie Stubbs]

36. Welcome to reality

Most Americans do not believe that the election was stolen. Most Democrats do not believe that the election was stolen. Just because a belief is widely held by DUers does not mean that it is widely held by Democrats as a whole.

[myschkin]

37. If you are

too dumb to add 1 + 1...

[Im with Rosey]

38. My Grandfather, born 1890

was a democrat,his democratic party was different than mine. My democratic party is different from the one I believed in 5, 10, 20 years ago. Do we change and adjust as the times call for? I think we do. As I push 50(OH NO!) I still think the party has the strength to weather this storm. Remember that there have been times that the party has reconfigured itself to achieve the inclusive ideas of many. It just takes determination and the will to make it work as the powerhouse of J.F.K., Robert Kennedy, Bill Clinton...

[intelle]

39. Saracat -- you have the courage of your convictions

and, despite those spouting "party line" you stood up for what you believe in. I am proud to know you!

:pals: :yourock: :headbang:

[KatieB]

41. Hope you told them if the vote is invalid there is no 2008

Repugs have it in the can. People are so stupid. Felt sorry for you saracat.

[jdog]

42. Don't be disheartened Saracat

It's hard to be ahead of the curve. But you are - - you're stuck with it!

[consciousobjector]

43. Running into the same thing here in Ohio...

Chairman of party (who is also president of county elections board)is clueless...
tried to get in touch with other party members to organize...get calls to tell me of meetings but no place for meeting revealed, Spent half a day going to every former meeting place...no one there on day of meeting.
They did give me a day and place for holiday party...not going, don't need more negativity! :grr:

[Peace Patriot]

44. Quakerfriend, marions ghost, sled...

I think you understand this quite well. Thank you for your posts!

That was a great analysis, sled! I wholly agree!

saracat described the people at the party as "our most active and top ranking Dems!"

So, THESE are among the people in the Dem leadership (or associated with them) who are RESPONSIBLE for permitting rightwing Republicans to gain total control of our election system--with SECRET source code owned as proprietary in the central electronic vote tabulators throughout the country, Diebold & ES&S voting machines everywhere, and no paper trail in a third of the country.

The Democratic leadership had one important job to do, after the 2000 debacle--and that was to insure that our votes were counted THIS TIME. Their failure on this issue has been catastrophic.

I have thought over the past weeks that their reluctance to face this matter could be embarassment. This was such a huge failure.

They owe us all an apology. They should issue that apology and clear the air--then get busy on this investigation.

But they are hiding behind their temporary power, their Christmas drinks, and their own sneers of contempt for the people who are actually analyzing data, and also, by implication, for the old, sick people who stood out in the rain for ten hours to vote for them, or fainted in the line and never did got to vote.

That kind of contempt won't hold up for long--in most of them. It's very defensive. And it may be disgusting (and dismaying), but it does need to be understood.

Also, the more I see this reaction among the "top ranking Dems," the more I fear that porkbarrel and corruption are a factor as well. They are hiding something--some of them. And I don't think it's stupidity or incompetence. Bear in mind, the MAIN JOB of "top ranking Dems" is GETTING VOTES (well, maybe next to fundraising). But VOTES are a damn fundamental thing for party leaders!

And they've let rightwing Bush "Pioneers" control how the votes are counted--with no auditability! I mean...

You just have to laugh! It's so OUTRAGEOUSLY ODDBALL that they WOULDN'T IN THE LEAST BE INTERESTED IN WHO COUNTS OUR VOTES, AND HOW!

To any rational observer--to a visiting Martian, and probably to most of the world--I'm sure it's like, huh????????!!!!!!!!!

saracat says some of these Dem leaders believe that, "while there was probably fraud, we need to move on." Was that just sarcasm, saracat? Or did some actually acknowledge that "there was probably fraud"? If so, their position becomes even more strange.

They're probably caught up in the win/lose thing. If it doesn't mean that Kerry wins, then it doesn't matter--because Kerry winning is the only thing that enhances their power. Sad to say, some probably don't give a crap for the power of ordinary voters, poor people and minorities. How telling this report is!

Naked Democrats!

The facts of this election, beginning with the condition of the election system going in--that it was an OPEN DOOR to fraud by Bush Inc.--the evidence of impossible Bush numbers all over the map, and the criminal vote suppression in Ohio and Florida are simply overwhelming at this point, and you have to wonder how we got here, and why, with this Dem leadership.

I have no evidence of outright corruption--some strong suspicions, though--given the money Diebold was throwing around, wining and dining election officials, and the sheer cost to the states of these fancy new election systems (money from us, stuffed into Diebold's pockets, thence to the committee to re-crown Bush--how's that for irony?)

--as well as suspicions of Dem leadership on other issues such as the Iraq war. Why were they so adamant that an antiwar candidate couldn't win? Was it because that antiwar candidate, Howard Dean, was outside the DNC club and might cast a glowering eye at Dem corporate donors and war collusion?

The tragedy of all this is that we put these differences aside, and cooperated magnificently on ousting Bush--and succeeded! And now, that amazing democacy movement that we all saw developing, and were part of, has to deal with having that victory stolen right away from us by the most corrupt election system the world has seen since Josef Stalin.

And the party we tried to put into power has this sneer on their faces, and their cocktails in their hands.

Wow. And couldn't care less about a little election fraud.

I guess this is the beginning of the tearing apart of the Left that I have so dreaded, and have tried not to contribute to. But I cannot get past the utter betrayal of every promise they made that "every vote would be counted," and their utter failure to insure it--or at the very least, to scream bloody murder about it.

I know Tom Delay obstructed needed provisions, like a paper trail, but still--the way this election system got set up is so blatantly wrong--eye-popping wrong!

I really can't think of a motive for it, besides porkbarrel. It LOOKS like Democratic Party suicide.

Or maybe those people are right who say there is only one party, the War Party (made up of Republicrats)--that is, that current Dems in power think things are just fine. THEY are taken care of. Why should they make a fuss? The War Party goes on.

I don't know. I'm getting kind of mind-bent trying to figure it out. But I think there are strong elements of embarassment, guilt, possible corruption, and snootiness--removal from ordinary people--the jobless, the poor, the disenfranchised, the very people Democrats are supposed to defend.

And a rather astonishing obliviousness, a la Marie Antoinette ("let them eat cake").

("Let them eat half a vote, a quarter of a vote, an eighth of a vote--for every one Republican vote"--? Let them eat precinct work, while we lap up the golden piss of the Great American Empire?)(Sorry--this is getting out of hand...).

[brindis_desala]

45. sorry to say I'm not surprised

The BBC just had an excellent series: the POWER of NIGHTMARES.
It posits that liberal democracies no longer feel able to deliver their promises so they create bogeymen and pretend their function is to protect the people instead. The problem is that politicians' motives are only altruistic and\or benign so long as the outcome enhances their power. The Democratic party, particularly the DLC, sees itself as competing for the same corporate dollar but corporations owe their loyalty to shareholders not nations. Until progressives admit to that basic incongruity they will continue to be let down not just by the MSM but their own party.

[pattyloutwo]

46. I see the same thing

even in liberal Seattle. It's frustrating. I've chosen a few people to give the latest updates to, whether they want to hear it or not. I can't figure out why people would be so naive and trusting given our history. Of course people cheat, lie, steal, commit fraud. Let's not make it easy for them to do so.

[stirringstill]

53. Excellent Post

Well said. There are certain members of the Democratic Party that are responsible. Some may be guilty of something which could be used against them--perhaps a machine helped them once upon a time. Some may just be lazy. But most are certainly guilty of having failed to recognize the real threat. This was not about Kerry vs. Bush, but Kerry against pro-Bush forces. Define those forces and one realizes that this is a far bigger game than the DNC versus the RNC. Do these pro-Bush forces regard the US Constitution quaint? What would some of these forces do to get Bush elected? Scary.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

54. "Being a moderate, maybe we should throw SOME Jews in the oven..."

"Because I'm not comfortable with the radical fringes who want to
1) throw all the Jews in the oven (right wing)
OR
2) throw none of the Jews in the oven." (left wing)

"So, all things in moderation.
Therefore the right answer must be...in the center!"
See? Politics is all about compromise.

-Compromising your humanity. (DLC/DNC)

[pauldp]

47. The jacked car analogy

"while there was probably fraud, we need to move on"

DNC:
"Someone stole our hubcaps but lets keep driving eventually we'll get there"

DUer:
"Dude, they stole your f*cking TIRES! Rims and all! You're not going anywhere!"

DNC:
"C'mon get back in the car, let's keep going"

DUer:
"Oh shit check this out, they took the BATTERY too!"

DNC:
"I figure we should be there in a couple of hours"

DUer:
:wtf:

[jbnow]

49. Easy to imagine how hard that would be.

You'd expect the gathering to be filled with kindred spirits that share your passion here...instead they really are part of the problem.

My Democratic friends are not political movers and shakers, neither am I. But they avidly wanted Kerry to win and I heard more political passion from them then ever before. After the election they were upset and then they "moved on" since they saw Kerry do it. Early on several read/listened hopefully to the information and opinions I offered, but the passage of time dimmed that. They agreed there was probably some fraud, but not that much and what could you do.

b's people did this right. The extra millions in the popular vote and the large # of votes b seemed to win Florida and Ohio by made looking at fraud or questioning results seem useless. Big fraud seems to outrageous to consider and makes considering less likely.

[Senator]

50. This is why we need to get in their faces>>>

Start rattling their cages.

www.thedeanpeople.org

Force them to ask themselves a simple question "Are 10-hour poll-tax-lines for poor, minority voters AND no lines for affluent, white voters tolerable? In short, are you a racist or not?"

Inquiring minds want to know.

.

[dmac]

51. I feel your pain . . .

Isn't it amazing? Reading about your night felt so sadly familiar to me. Before I found DU I just didn't care about seeing anyone because no one cared about this issue - and worse, they all wanted to talk about where the Dems went wrong and what they need to do now to stand a chance in '06. And I am screaming what you need to do now to stand a chance in '06 is do something about this theft of the WH for the second term! Now, after over a month, I rarely say anything anymore - I can't stand the patronizing sympathy, or the "smile and nod" routine, where I can read their thoughts through their eyes.

I DO NOT understand why everyone is taking this so lightly. Why just "move on"? If I hear, "We lost, and we better get to work on '06 or we will lose it too" one more time I may have to lock myself in my house for the for the rest of my life.

I have been reading to catch up after being away all day and it seems many positive things happened or are about to happen. I can't help but wonder how these people are going to react if they prove fraud, if they prove KErry had more votes and took Ohio, if they prove that we need to be recounting in every state. The way they are acting now it wouldn't surprise me at all if they join with the conservatives to say we should leave well enough alone. And that is when I guess I have to leave the country. If no one cares but me, I care too deeply to stay here. At times I feel we are many . . . but mostly I feel we are few. It is lonely and hard to keep the faith, but I will never waiver. But I also realize nothing is ever going to be the same for me again.

This week is going to turn everything around and maybe then, people will see me the way they used to - sad thing is, I will never see them the same.

[GetTheRightVote]

56. It is amazing how much pain these people can take ....

But not me, I am sick to death of stolen election. My only question is who is paying off who in the game of elections ???