So how are they recounting the votes in the Paperless Counties in Ohio?

[lizzieforkerry]

I haven't seen any posts on this and haven't heard anyhting yet. Does anyone know how they will be recounting in the Diebold counties?

[lonestarnot]

1. bushit counting those

[liberalnurse]

2. I just got a telephonic update......

I volunteered for the re-count. They will be doing training tomorrow.

They will do a 3 percent sample first on Tuesday morning and compare that to the something???? To see if it is a large variance to go forward to do a full recount.

Thats all I know.

[uppityperson]

3. Thanks for volunteering and good luck there.

[liberalnurse]

5. You are most welcome.

I feel honored to give my time...... :hi:

[berniew1]

8. There are some things they can do in touchscreen counties.

1. They can check the number signed in on the voting rolls to see it the numbers match the official totals.
2. It would be good to audit the software used in the counts.
3. They can audit the absentees and provisionals.
4. The audits and provisionals make up a big sample. They can compare the statewide candidate totals for countywide candidates to total county totals to see how the sample matches the total population.
Then the comparison of the Kerry/Bush counts for the sample to the total county counts gives indication of whether their were irregularities in the Presidential race.

for example, the North Carolina study:
Unofficial Audit of NC Election: Comprehensive Case for Fraud
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=45003&mesg_id=45003

This is a pretty good case for fraud in North Carolina.

[lizzieforkerry]

6. But are you recounting in the counties that had the paperless

Diebold machines? I think we only had six counties like this. I am volunteering in a county with punch cards. We are hand counting precincts that add up to at least 3% of th ecounty total. If they are off by 1 vote, we will hand recount the entire county, if we are exactly right, we will machine count the rest. I was wondering how they are going to do this in those other counties, since there isn't anything to hand count.

[OKthatsIT]

4. REVOTE!

Swine swirls will repent!
Its obvious, there has to be REVOTE.

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. You just asked the $64,000 question

The good part is that Bush won't be able to prove he won.

[read the law first]

9. I've actually participated in a paperless recount.

All they do is download the memory cards a second time. If one's theory is that the GEMS server was hacked, this will eliminate that possibility because the cards were at the machines before they got to the GEMS server. Other than that, there's no particular value in downloading the same data (which could be corrupted) a second time. But, if one's theory is that the vote was hacked after it got to the tabulation center, the recount will conclusively show that to be true or untrue.

[3 DanO]

10. What prevented the GEMS server from changing the vote

on the memory cards the first time they were read?

Without a paper trail these cards contain the official record of the election. And so far I haven't heard anything to indicate that this data is protected from alteration after it leaves the precincts.

If I were in charge, I would have had the memory cards write locked with tamper resistant tape placed over the wrote protect switch by the precinct judges at the close of the poll.

[read the law first]

13. good point.

About the only thing is the speed at which the data transfer is accomplished and the number of hacks that would be involved.

They pop these memory cards into stand alone accumulator machines, download the data from the card and pop them out. It takes about ten seconds per card. Now, it could be that in the downloading process the accumulator responds by corrupting the data on the card while it is being downloaded but wouldn't you have to have two hacked programs that happen on each of the accumulator machines? One to change the data as it comes in and then to change it on the card? And you would have to get to each of the machines in the tabulation center.

But then you also have the tapes that the machines printed out using the uncorrupted data before they left the precinct. These are usually posted at the precinct. We have people copy these numbers down before the memory cards ever even make it to the GEMS server, so if something changed at the GEMS server, we would know about it right away.

But I think your point is a valid one.

[Amaryllis]

11. Crucial information on Ohio recount!

From http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/111004V.shtml

"Ohio did not use modern electronic voting machines in this election. Six counties use an older form of electronic voting, which has a means of verifying the accuracy of the vote. In 69 Ohio Counties, punch card ballots were used."

The main problem is usually in the tabulators, the machines that count the votes. This is the easiest place to rig the vote.

This is why it is crucial that they do a hand recount!
Can someone start a thread on this? I am too new to start one, but this is CRUCIAL information! See selection below on hand recounts from http://www.stolenelection2004.com/alerts.html. (This site has the BEST action alerts on everything going on in Ohio)
We need to stay on this and MAKE SURE a hand recount is done!

"Ohio will have a recount initiated by the Greens and the Libertarian candidates. Now the Democrats, as well as the Greens and the Libertarians are asking for volunteers to help monitor this recount, It will begin on different days--the 14th, 15th, and 16th.

A.The Green party is demanding a FULL recount and the Democrats are not sure if they will make that request yet. They might be satisfied with a 3% hand count and let the rest run through the same faulty machines! The local Ohio Boards of Elections different counties which makes the final decision will get "cover" if the Democrats are satisfied with 3%. For more info http://tinyurl.com/5a627

Tell the Dems that a full manual recount--and a full investigation of the voting machines-- is the only way to make sure every vote will count!

Contact: Contact the Ohio Dems 614-221-6563 (voice) 614-221-0721 (fax) email [e-mail]

[KatieB]

12. We need to demand a hand recount of all of Ohio! What is wrong w/DEMS?

I emailed "Dan"

[Bill Bored]

14. Which 3%? And what about the other 97%?

How will the initial 3% sample be selected? At random I hope! Let's say there is in effect, a deck of punch cards in each precinct. Will someone just shuffle them?

And let's say the tabulators are just rigged to come up with the previous results +/- a few votes to make it look like a real recount with some trivial errors. How will we know that the the machine counts are real? You could get a perfect 3% sample, run the other 97% through the machines, and still come up with something very close to the original answer right? Is there a way to rule this out? Forgive my ignorance.

[Niche]

15. here's email from Green Party tonight...

Hello Recount Supporters!

How are all you doing? Things are just zooming along here in Ohio. We had trainings all over the state today and - wow - people are so committed to ensuring that every vote is counted. It is amazing.

**************
I wanted to clarify my update from yesterday -- the last ten words of a sentence were cut off. It was supposed to read:

We have dozens of trainings taking place this weekend, and we expect supporters from Oregon, California, Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois, Pennsylvania, New York, Connecticut, Kentucky, West Virginia to start flooding in to protest the Electors meeting on December 13th.

I apologize for the confusion.

************************

We are now up to eight counties starting on Monday (and only six different start times, how nice):

Clinton County at 7:00 am
Lake County at 9:00 am
Medina County at 9:00 am
Ottowa Count at 9:30 am
Wood County at 9:30 am
Jefferson County at 10:00 am
Holmes County at 1:00 pm
Fayette County at 3:00 pm

THE RECOUNT PROCESS
I strongly urge those interested to check out the Ohio Revised Code, Provisions for Recounts, Section 3515:

http://serform2.sos.state.oh.us/sos/elections/statewide/provisions_recounts.htm

Most folks seem to have a question about whether or not their will be a hand recount. Here's what the code says:

-->The board must randomly select whole precincts whose total equals at least 3% of the total vote and must manually count

-->If the tabulator count does not match the hand count, and after rechecking the manual count the results are still not equal, all ballots must be hand counted. If the results of the tabulator count and the hand counted ballots are equal, the remainder of the ballots may be processed through the tabulator. (that's regarding optical scan and punchcards)

So...the duration of the recount in each county all depends on whether ANY discrepancy is found.

I'll send another update tomorrow; it's almost 10:00 pm and I still have hours of work ahead of me.

There will be a rally at the State Capital on Sunday, 12 - 2pm. Come on by if you are in Columbus! It's not being organized by Cobb/LaMarche but I'll be there to talk about the recount.

Otherwise, maybe we'll see you on Monday! David Cobb will be here as well (and he's going to help witness the recount of the DRE machines in Franklin County on Tuesday).

Check out http://www.votecobb.org for more details about upcoming events and activities.

Your support is greatly appreciated. We are honored to stand up for you, the people, in this effort.


THANK YOU
Lynne Serpe
Ohio Recount Manager
Cobb/LaMarche
Vote Green for Peace, Democracy, Ecology and Justice
www.votecobb.org