New York Times & AP: Groups File Election Challenge in Ohio

[understandinglife]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Ohio-Electoral-College.html

Peace

"When Did Bush Know?"

[understandinglife]

1. Other links starting to appear....

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/1-12132004-416238.html

http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/12/13/ohio/

[Pirate Smile]

2. What is the deal with classifying people as "dissidents"?

[mmiixx]

16. freedom fighters would be better

[prodigal_green]

3. I'm bothered by their use of the term dissident

They are not opposed to our system of government, only the way in which the vote was manipulated.

[peacebird]

4. got to love the "unbiased" opening sentence of the article.... NOT!

" Dissident groups asked the Ohio Supreme Court on Monday to review the outcome of the state's presidential race, hours before the Ohio delegation to the Electoral College was to cast ballots for president and vice president.'

[neversaynever]

5. Actually, I 've gotten very positive responses to the sig line in

my university email

it reads

Me, PhD
Cognitive Dissident



Dissidence is a good thing, especially when it's COGNITIVE!

[understandinglife]

7. Just reflect on all the thinks Senator Kerry was called...

....for returning as a decorated hero and objecting to the Vietnam war.

Just look at all the things he was called during the past 12 months.

And, I assure you, I was called much worse than 'dissident' when I participated in an anti-Vietnam war protest in San Antonio Texas in 1967.

Who cares what 'they' call 'us' -- what matters is what 'us' are (and have been) doing to try to save our American franchise of democracy from obliteration.

Order some "I'm a Patriotic American Dissident" buttons and wear'um ;-)

Peace.

"When Did Bush Know?"

[magellan]

9. En garde, folks

We're all aware of the fairly innocuous dictionary definition of "dissident", which is: disagreeing especially with with an established religious or political system, organization, or belief.

But the sudden use of this word by the MSM to describe protesters is a disturbing development, and should concern us. It's clearly meant to prejudice public opinion by conjuring the negative connotation of "dissident" that's been with us since the McCarthy era.

What this means is Bush**'s propaganda campaign has moved to the next level. They mean to pressure us into conformity and/or silence, and if that fails they'll have the public's support when the arrests and detentions start.

[understandinglife]

10. Yawn. Time for a snack.

"When Did Bush Know?"

[Carolab]

11. Well, then the action to TAKE

is to write to anyone who uses the word and correct them.

We are NOT dissidents. We are United States citizens who believe that the election should be investigated because obvious instances of voter disenfranchisement occured.

So that makes us patriots, NOT dissidents.

[magellan]

14. You're preaching to the choir.

Apparently, so am I.

:-(

[KnowerOfLogic]

8. WaPo runs it opposite "Photos: Bush Wins after John F. Kerry concedes

the 2004 presidential election.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60947-2004Dec13.html?sub=new


Nope, no ulterior motives there. Sheesh.

[TrustingDog]

12. so Kerry is now a 'dissident'? lol.

well, so is noam chomsky - so he's in mighty fine company.

Dissident is NOT a negative word - but the MSM knows that too many people are just too dumb and don't get it.

[Kellis]

6. This is big.

People are going to sit up and take notice now.

Thanks for the heads up understandinglife!

[Carolab]

13. My reply

I take extreme exception to your false characterization of the citizens who are asking for an investigation of the election. There are well over 50,000 documented instances of clear violations of elections laws across the nation. There are serious questions surrounding the integrity of the elections machinery that was used. Elections laws are intended to protect citizens from disenfranchisement of their vote. In their desire to ensure that there is protection of the vote for every citizen in this country, the citizens who are demanding there be an investigation are patriots, not "dissidents".

Please issue a correction to your reporting today, and kindly refrain from the use of this terminology which seeks to cast a false light over the character of U.S. citizens who are merely asking that the laws be upheld.

Contact them with your response:

[e-mail] or leave a message at 1-888-NYT-NEWS

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. this is mine... so there

:-)

To the Editor,

Your use of certain terms, more closely associated with Stalinist Russia, when referring to those who are now questioning the Ohio election is telling. These people are Patriots in the truest sense of the word. These are people who want transparency in elections and voting systems. Why is it that you seem to feel threatened by REAL PATRIOTS who are doing the work that should be done by a free and independent press. There is one in the country, but it seems it no longer resides with the paper of record.

Sincerely,

[JohnnyCougar]

17. Allright, come on....

We're only going to be laughed at if we make those kind of accusations. It will work better if we are reasonable, and leave the Stalinist accusations out of it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. You think I am going to use the word disident

in my letter? That only reinforces the frame... they want to push.

I will not do that. Oh and the LAST TIME our "free and independent" MSM used the term disident was at the height of the cold war... at least in an overt and constant manner... and they were seen as heroes.

Please DO read Lakoff's "Don't think of an Elephant."

When emailing to them I will not use clear skyes initiative either, but polluting the environment initiative, I will not use Social security reform, but SS privatization, I will not use No child left behind, but rather school privatization, I will not use Tort lawyer but public protection lawyer, I will not use Disident, but rather use patriot, and yes I will remind the editor when was the last time they used that world CONSTANTLY...

Don't play their game...

Oh and do I expect them to publish it? HELL NO... but I intend to make them think that not all of us are falling for their Orwellian games

[JohnnyCougar]

19. I never said anything about the term "disident" at all.

I just said comparing their actions with Stalinist Russia is probably not the way to frame the debate.

I already read Lakoff's work weeks ago. If anything, Lakoff would tell you not to accuse a mainstream media source that is as close to being on our side as any that their actions resemble those of Stalin. If I were the editor of the Times, I wouldn't even finish the first line of your letter.

It doesn't matter if it's true or not, comparing them to Stalinists will not gain you credibility.

[grasswire]

20. my letter

Why are citizens who seek to protect the precious bedrock American principle of "one man one vote" being called "dissidents" by your paper? "Dissident" is a term most generally used by totalitarian regimes who wish to quash free expression. The sudden use of this term to describe those who seek open and fair elections in America is chilling. It is inflammatory and meant to turn public opinion against people who only seek to comply with the Constitution.

Cease and desist from this frightening agitprop. To continue with this label is to urge Americans toward civil war.

[4democracy]

21. Is this just online and not in the print version of NYT?

I couldn't get it to show up in headlines of print edition. Also it is dated the 13th, but posted 10:41pm. What does that mean, it wasn't in the paper today and won't be in there tomorrow? I know they have been getting a lot of email to cover the story, but if they just do it online late at night, no-one will see it anyway.