Recount Validity in Jeopardy

[truehawk]

This is very disturbing

Medina County Officials Refuse to Cooperate with Recount

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Because the order of candidates changes from one precinct to another, and the fact that it looks likely that some ballots were counted in the incorrect precinct, it is crucial to be able to verify that the ballots are being counted in the correct precincts.


http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/ballots/PDF/CLEVE04F.pdf

http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/ballots/PDF/CLEVE04n.pdf

If you voted for Kerry in Cleveland 4F and the ballot was read in Cleveland 4n, your vote was counted for Michael Badnarik.

If you voted for Kerry in Cleveland 4N and the ballot was read in , Cleveland 4f you got Michael Peroutka.

Joe Knapp's analysis of what happened in multiple precinct polling places is here, and this does not count votes for "Disqualified, and of course votes for Shrub.





http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Also
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Demodonkey said the votamatic automatically changes per ballot, but there is nothing on the ballot per sea where the voter indicates the precinct and nothing on the punch card itself except a space to write in the precinct on the bottom. In the recount instructions they talk about control cards. There is a punch card image around on the board somewhere, but I can't find it now.

Now I am not on site, but I do know that control cards have been used in the past.

The control cards are used to cue the tabulator to the right candidate order. Put the control card a little ahead or behind in a multi-precinct deck and voila, switched votes!

[NY lib NY]

1. They can't do this!

Didn't this just happen in another county. They didn't want to participate and the Glibs sued with Kerry's support. The court ruled that all counties must participate.

[bones_7672]

2. I don't know about that ...

the ballots in Cuyahoga County (Cleveland) had punches on them to identify their location.

[truehawk]

3. Are you sure?

The punch card image that was posted here did not have intergeral check punches.

And that was one of my previous concerns. If there were punches indicating precinct, then they would have only had to mix some other precincts ballots in BEFORE THEY WERE VOTED to have them miscounted.

[bones_7672]

7. The ballots at the precinct I worked 11/2 had identifying punches. n/t

[truehawk]

4. If the ballots were unique to, precint, then they were Mixed before votin

And we won't find that in a recount.

[truehawk]

5. If the ballots were unique to the precinct, then Mixed before voted?

If it was a machine readable punch how many people would know they got the right punchcard for their ballot order?

That we WILL not be able to find in a recount.

[troubleinwinter]

6. Ohio's election is just thoroughly fucked up beyond belief.

The vote was not legitimate to begin with, an accurate recount seems near impossible, and the stonewalling and funny-business just makes it seem like a complete fiasco.

[read the law first]

8. I like this chart a lot but help me understand it.

I would have expected the percentage of third party votes to GO UP as there were more precincts per polling place but it looks like most were in the two to three range. Why wouldn't this go up and up and up?

This is a great chart but I want to make sure I understand it.

Thank you.

[truehawk]

9. I have a theory that they concentrated on smaller polling places

Where there was less scrutiny.

If it were accidental then the larger polling places would give higher numbers of mixed votes.

[read the law first]

13. Aha! Now I see. Thanks. n/t

[truehawk]

10. The Plain Dealer says the ballot shuffle happened, but it is just a glitch

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1102674912293811.xml

Yeah RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!

[demodonkey]

11. Update: The rotation codes are NOT on the ballot, they are on

"header" cards (control cards) which are run at the beginning and end of a stack of ballots from a precinct. SO, if you got a "wrong" ballot into the middle of that stack, it WOULD be read wrong, on the wrong rotation.

There is supposed to be a precinct number written on each ballot card.

(Sorry I got it wrong before... Learned more today...) And I think it WOULD be safer if the machine read the rotation code on each ballot.


<<Demodonkey said the votamatic automatically changes per ballot, but there is nothing on the ballot per sea where the voter indicates the precinct and nothing on the punch card itself except a space to write in the precinct on the bottom.>>

[truehawk]

15. Uh Huh, that is what I posted above

missplace the control card and switch votes.

As part of the recount we need to audit the sample precinct decks to make sure that they are correctly grouped and not mixed.

[Peace Patriot]

12. Please correct your title--it's misleading.

Your title, "Recount Validity in Jeopardy," made me think there was something wrong regarding the Greens' $ bond for the recount, or some other damned action by Blackwell (invalidating recount procedures, or volunteers' credentials, or something). I thought something happened that was OUR fault, or being blamed on us. Would you re-title, please?

[truehawk]

14. Can't, time for edit has passed, But

The recount will not do any good unless we make certain that the cards are counted in the proper precinct, and THEN it won't show anything if gave the people the wrong card. (evidently the precinct is stamped on the back.

What I am concerned about is that they could have just moved the control card, which would mean the valid vote is there if we can just unshuffle the deck. However if the recount observers don't get to verify the province of the ballots being hand counted and then machine counted, the oppertunity will be lost and we will never know weather the decks are still shuffled or not because we were not allowed to look.

I think we should fight to verify.

[truehawk]

16. Kicked back from the edge