Conyer's response to Blackwell's snub

[cyn2]

http://rawstory.com/exclusives/conyers_letter_1214.php

[IAMREALITY]

1. Fucking Awesome!

I knew it would just fuel Conyers Fire.

Katherine The Second is just digging himself a deep ass grave with each day that passes!

[jamboi]

2. Whoa! Everyone should read the insolent Blackwell non-response! n/t

[karlrschneider]

15. Where can I read it? Didn't see a link on the page...

:eyes:

[Dolphyn]

28. Here's the link to Blackwell's response

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/ohblackwellresp121404.pdf

Blackwell is "ready to eliminate the myths that may be circulating of unfair or discrimintory treatment of qualified Ohio electors at the polls."

:puke:

[VTGold]

32. Does that mean - other investigations with teeth are going on?? Please God

[hootinholler]

84. No, that means

that BW is trying to use the investigations without teeth as justification for not responding. A big mistake IMNSHO.

-Hoot

[jhgatiss]

34. Conyers should have marched over to the Statehouse yesterday...

and asked that punk Blackwell to his face what the answers to his questions are!

[budkin]

3. Kick ass Conyers!

Keep on that little bitch Blackwell!

[New Earth]

4. i'm in love with this man

i think he is my #1 hero right now.

he dont' take no shit from Blackwell!!

[life_long_dem]

63. We need a cage match. Starring:

The Respectable Representative vs. The shit for brains, vomit breath, lying fukin' piece of repug trash.

My money is on the Democrat.

[Karenca]

5. This gives me hope :) nt

[WritersBlock]

6. My respect for Representative Conyers and his colleagues grows daily. n/t

[lonestarnot]

46. This group will be reflected upon in history as the True Hero

Patriots of our day along with Green Party Cobb. I am a damn yellowdog who is thinking of going green!

[SueZhope]

7. You go Conyers

This Blackwell/Conyers story is a story in it self.

The media would be all over this if this was a Democrat SOS that was playing this game .
This is an OUTRAGE that this is being ignored (except by Keith)

[Darknyte7]

8. Hell yeah! Hell yeah!! n/t

[LSparkle]

9. Go, Conyers, GOOOO!

[Woo]

10. AH SWEEET JEEEEEZUS

I see others see it differently, but this is getting us NOWHERE, FAST.

I'm tired of playing nice with these assholes.

This letter is a nothing but a 'pretty please' --

Sorry, I'm frustrated and to see them walk all over us, while we try to 'play nice' is driving me nuts -- the only option I see now is to STORM THE CASTLE... that's what I'll be preaching -- unfortunately you can't do that with a tupperware party crowd of 30...

[skids]

18. If you really feel that way...

Get your but to Ohio and provide the recount workers some physical protection.

(Not that I should talk)

[ParanoidPat]

50. I disagree that "This letter is a nothing but a 'pretty please'".......

.......This letter is just another length of rope for Blackwell to hang himself with. :evilgrin:

Blackwell's response to Conyers first letter was just the latest wrap around the noose of evidence that proves a "pattern of obstruction" on his part.

You can't "storm the castle" by yourself. You can't rally the people to back you up without demonstrating adequate reason to to so.

This letter is just one more piece of evidence that the Government no longer works for the people. The Constitution allows us remedy for that. ;-)

[George W. Hayduke]

11. impressive

I think we can say without a doubt, Conyers is "on the boat".

A good start.


edit:patience kiddies....

[Woo]

26. Screw patience...

Can't you see -- we're going around in circles here -- Conyers has no power -- NONE, ZERO... -- unless we back him up with feet on the ground, people in their face --no one understand this -- wake up folks!! --
-- Conyers response is dead in the water, it's not even worth the paper it's printed on... unless we can back it up with action...

I'll wait a little longer but Conyers better start saying something that goes beyond... 'ohhhhh, now I'm mad... do that one more time and you're gonna get it'...

On EDIT: And what I mean by better start saying something is... he needs to stop talking to THEM... because they're laughin at him -- and START talking to US... the people (in mass) who can get something done... and MY LETTER to him will reflect that opinion... this has just gotten to be ridiculous..

I'm highly pissed off...

[George W. Hayduke]

40. GOOD

i'm glad you're 'highly pissed off'.

because when these hearings lead to CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS (whether or not Fuckface is reinaugerated or whatever) and IF congressional investigations are stonewalled (possibly by CONGRESS ITSELF) THERE WILL BE SUCH NATIONAL COMMOTION THAT HALF THE COUNTRY WILL FINALLY COME OUT IN PROTEST....

AND THERE WILL BE NO MORE DENYING THAT A PROBLEM EXISTS AND MEDIA WILL FINALLY COVER IRAQ, ELECTIONS AND THE COUP DE'ETAT WILL FINALLY BE RECOGNIZED FOR WHAT IT IS......

whether the civil war will be bloodless or bloody, i cannot say...

[dalloway]

43. patience is a virtue

There is a reason for the process. Conyers understands the process and is using it to build evidence of obstruction. By giving Blackwell opportunities to respond, he is exhausting all avenues of resolving this first. You have to go through the steps--can't just object to a set of electors (or whatever it is they plan on doing) without first exhausting all other avenues of resolution, even contacting Blackwell. As I see it, Blackwell's letter continues to dig his own hole, adding weight to the evidence of his obstruction.

[ClintCooper2003]

12. Broadcast it all over the planet! n/t

[grasswire]

13. I'm waiting...

...for Conyers to call him "son." As in "Sit down, son."

[4democracy]

14. Notice a copy was sent to Sensenbrenner, he's the Republican Chair

of Judiciary Committee

[texpatriot2004]

16. Copy of an e-mail I just sent out to everyone about this matter

K. "Katherine" Blackwell Sec. of State in Ohio and Co-Chair of 2004 Bush Cheney re-election campaign refuses to answer any of the 36 specific questions the Judiciary Committee has posed to him. He sure seems to be hiding something...he is acting very guilty.

Here's a link to Congressman Conyer's response to Blackwell's letter

http://rawstory.com/exclusives/conyers_letter_1214.php

Blackwell had said on television that he would not interfere with a recount in Ohio but he lied on TV it seems.

"The answer was a far cry from the seemingly genial exchange I had with Secretary Blackwell on November 29th’s Countdown:

KO: “As it plays into the recount, though, sir, are you saying that your office does not anticipate taking any steps to try to prevent a recount in Ohio?”

KB: “No, we haven‘t. We‘ve told the two officials candidates that have-the candidates that have asked for a recount that, once we certify on December 6, they have five days to certify, I mean, to ask for a recount. Once they ask for a recount, we will provide them with a recount. And that‘s what I‘ve said from the very first indication that they were interested in a recount. Once it was established that they were statewide candidates withstanding, our law says that they can ask for a recount. We will regard this as yet another audit of the voting process.”

Smoke — plenty of it. And little obvious means of telling whether it’s the smoke of a flawed election, or the stuff set ablaze by Ohio officials falling into the fireplace during their desperate, petulant, failing struggle to make themselves look good." Keith Olbermann Blog 12/13/04

This is the link to Blackwell's letter. It's kind of slow so be aware of that, it's kind of slow like Katherine Blackwell who took two weeks to answer none of the questions.
http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/ohblackwellresp121404.pdf

[texpatriot2004]

33. Hey ya'll send this out far and wide, pass the word about this.

[Kellis]

47. Im on it.

Thanks.

and thanks for the post OP.

Get this out to the media you guys.Support this effort.Support Conyers.FIGHT for your voice to be heard.

here is a link w/ 391 news media links to get this out quick.

http://www.independentmediasource.com/voteintegrity2_09.htm

Come On DU.It is up to US.

[skids]

17. How Arrogant (of Blackwell)

I didn't catch his reponse letter -- he really tried to tell Conyers what the Justice Committee should and should not be doing WRT to the GAO?

What a f**ktard.

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. You think Conyer might be getting

just a little sick and tired of Blackwell and his crap? This is great, the more Blackwell stonewalls, the deeper he digs his own grave. Bring 'Em On!

[Alizaryn]

20. That man has class! Has anyone sent Olbermann links to the 2

letters?

[henslee]

21. BOO-YAH!

[Poppyseedman]

22. I have a different take. Probably not a popular one either.

The federal government butting into states government is one of my pet peeves. It doesn't matter if it's a democratic or republican issue.

If I was Blackwell, I'll go tell any congressman of any stripe, except the Ohio congressional representatives, to pound sand.

Elections are state run. Period.

Personally, I think it was rude of Blackwell to wait two weeks to response, after all Conyers is a ranking member of Congress.

This would be the content of my letter:
Article X of the Bill of Rights

The Powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively or to the People.

What part of Article X do you not understand?

[jamboi]

25. Technically you do have a point. That's why that part of the consititution

needs to be updated, since taking states rights to that point where they are interfereing with citizens rights in the rest of the whole country makes no sense whatsoever. Obviously federal standards must be applied to federal elections.

[Poppyseedman]

41. Repeal the tenth amendment?

[ConstitutionGuy]

78. No they shouldn't

exactly because they are federal - not national. Go read the Federalist papers, written by men who knew a whole hell of alot more about the way the Constitution is supposed to work than any of us alive today. They speak exactly to this issue on the discourses concerning the electoral process.

The presidency is a federal office, not a national office. The framers did not create a national government, they created a federal government. A national government and a national president is one that would be elected by the whole people acting as a single electorate. That is not what we have and not what the framers intended.

In a federal government (as opposed to national), which is what we have, power and prerogatives are shared between a central government and sovereign states (thus the 10th amendement reffed above). In a federal (as opposed to national) election, the people act not in concert as a single electorate, but as citizens of their respective states. From the founding of this nation the presidential election has always been an election among citizens of the several states, not the citizens of the whole nation. Therefore, the laws of the state control, not Congress - because the presidential election is the result of a series of multiple elections conducted at the state level, not a single national vote.

Article II of the U.S. Constitution

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

Further more, the Constitution is itself a creature of the states, having been originally ratified by the state legislatures and requiring the approval of 3/4's of the state legislatures to amend.

Federalism - what a concept!

I agree with the earlier poster. If I were a state official, regardless of party, and I was convinced that I and the people working for me had faithfully executed the duties of our offices, I'd tell an unimpowered Congressman whose looking to cause me trouble and embarassment to go pound sand as well.

[anamandujano]

27. too bad the us supreme court didn't understand in 2000

[Poppyseedman]

36. The SCOTUS did understand that.

That's why they got involved and overruled the Florida SC only after the Florida SC made their ruling, not on what the state did.

The separate powers of the federal and state governments interacted within their own realm of authority. Only the federal judicial branch has powers over the state judicial.

It's the way the Constitution works, we don't like it, we need to change the Constitution

[Carolab]

44. Violations of civil rights

are federal matters. As are any violations of "equal protection" and any violations of HAVA, which is a federal act.

[Poppyseedman]

72. See post # 70

[Stand and Fight]

55. Your argument is absolute rubbish!

Have you ever heard of the damn 15th Amendment to the Constitution? It goes a little something like this:


Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

=======================================================

I don't think I need to go into this any further.

[Poppyseedman]

70. I would hate to try your patience but......

Yeah, the 15th amendment does ring a bell.

Where exactly did the state of Ohio "denied or abridged.......on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude."

Has anybody in the state of Ohio stated under oath that they were denied the right to vote because of their race or color???? They were turned away based on the fact they were black? Did black people have to wait in long lines along with white people or did the white people get moved to the front of the line?

Nowhere in my post did I say there was not any problems. My one and only point is and it is still correct whether or not you think so, no one in the federal government has jurisdiction over a state election, unless of course the state breaks the law.

Has anyone proved that the State of Ohio broke any federal laws???

If not, then any congressman, from any party, has a no say so in the way the state runs the election.

I'm not defending Blackwell, just defending the states rights.

Or do you prefer the the GOP controlled federal government start sticking their nose in every state election they think needs to be looked at?

[Stand and Fight]

56. And another thing...

Read the damn letter! Precedence is given by stating past examples of when Congress have intervened in state matters! I have no patience for people who start their mouths before they engage their brains.

:mad:

[texpatriot2004]

57. Ya'll pass this news on please...send those e-mails out n/t

[Poppyseedman]

73. Brain engaged.

I read the letter. I have no patience for people who think that there have no consequences for actions they take.

Go ahead, let congressman poke and hunt for unsustainable charges based on hearsay and hyperbole. That's all it's going to wind up being.

What are you going to do when the ball is on the other foot and the GOP starts asking about other states that were even closer than Ohio or the GOP doesn't think an certain election was fair?

Will you hypocritically defend states right then?

At what point does the federal government power end and the state begins?

Unlimited power by the federal government is a dangerous thing especially nowadays.

[shraby]

62. This was a Federal election

so the Federal government would have some say in the matter. Remember the supremes in 2000.

[Poppyseedman]

71. The federal government

does not hold elections at all.

The individual states runs elections for positions that represent their states in the federal government.

The SCOTUS in 2000 over ruled the Florida SC about the Florida laws in the state, not the actual election results. I know that is splitting hairs, but we have a separation of powers for a good reason.

[ConstitutionGuy]

79. See post 78 and others.

The exact opposite is true. A federal election is NOT an election conducted by the federal government. Is an election conducted by the individual states acting as sovereign entities. Read the Federalists. Poppyseedman is spot on.

[sunnystarr]

83. Seems to me that you forgot about HAVA

This act does allow the federal government into State elections. Once states accept Federal money they allow the Federal government into the picture. ergo Schools, highways, etc.

[crispini]

23. My response to Conyers

Re: Ohio Election Fraud

Dear Rep. Conyers,
Thank you for your continuing attention to this matter, and most especially for your recent communication to Secretary of State Blackwell, who seems determined to be an obstructionist jerk. The election in Ohio was disappointing to say the least, and fraudulent to say the most. Thank you for your strong stance on the issue, and thank you for your patriotism.

I will once again write my representative and urge her to join with you in following this up.

[KansDem]

24. Good job! Use their words against them, Mr Conyers...

Note the second footnote on page two (I would copy but the letter is an image)...

Conyers is arguing that an investigation can be undertaken concurrently with the GAO and/or Congress (could Blackwell et al have tried to squelch this investigation with that argument?)

Conyers refers to previous investigations of:
1. campaign finance irregularities in 1996
2. Charles Parrish
3. Feds and Branch Davidians
4. 2001 investigations of Clinton Pardons

I believe some/many/all of these were set up by the GOP Congress to embarrass President Clinton. At least I know Nos. 3 % 4 were. What about nos. 1 & 2?

The GOP set a lot of precendents that I think are coming back to haunt them. If it's good enough for the GOP Congress, it should be good enough for others... :)

[Donailin]

29. Not awesome. Not even encouraging.

It reminds me of the past year, month in and month out trying to collect the child support from my ex. "When will you be sending it, why haven't you sent it? When will you be sending it? Why haven't you sent it?" <----14 months of that

It wasn't until the state of MD stepped in with threatening letters of license suspension and this sort of thing that he was "prompted" to do the right thing.

There needs to be a threat factor, like criminal charges for obstructing justice.

[Hobbes199]

31. Yeah. It's nice that it was sent.

But at that point I'd have threatened some legal action.

[ConstitutionGuy]

80. Using what powers?

As a minority member of the committee he has no more power to bring legal action that my miniature schanuzer. He's not from Ohio so he can't even bring a citizen's complaint.

[lonestarnot]

49. It would be silly to threaten knowing the authority with teeth is not

there to back you up. Blackwell knows he can thumb his nose at Conyers and get away with it. Bitch K. B. needs some life lessons!

[Straight Shooter]

30. Hey, Blackwell, do you or do you not support democracy?

Your refusal to answer the 36 questions we posed to you is unfortunate and part of a pattern of decisions that have worked to obstruct and stonewall a search for the truth about Ohio voting irregularities. If these allegations are as obviously baseless as you have claimed, it would seem that you could perform a public service by disspelling them. The voters deserve no less."

Rep. Conyers is NOT going to back down. Blackwell has insulted Rep. Conyers and the House Judiciary Committee.

[insane_cratic_gal]

35. Rhoades

talking about the letters now in Air america

[dalloway]

48. Randi also said 2 Ohio electors failed to show up yesterday

At the last minute they had to be replaced with substitutes. She couldn't believe this wasn't reported anywhere. Think those electors were smart enough to keep their names out of this pile of sh*t? Or maybe they were going to be "faithless" electors and so Blackwell gave them the wrong building number? Oh, to speculate. There ARE some Repugs for whom election fraud IS going too far.

[Moonwatcher]

59. Repub Electors

A list of 20 Presidential Electors on the Ohio Elections web site:

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/news/guide/PresidentialElectors.pdf

currently matches a list of electors published in the Cincinnati Enquirer on 11/1:

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/11/01/loc_elex1melect.html

If there was a switch, the State's web site wasn't updated with the final names of electors.

[k8conant]

66. I was watching on CSpan as they replaced the electors...

but I didn't hear why. Ohio Revised Code said they had until 9 am to notify if they wouldn't be there. We need the names of the two new ones to see if they were qualified. I heard one name but don't remember--was it a Mr. Allison?

[mdb]

37. Conyer's sent out his response to Blackwell's on the same day.

Yet Blackwell's response to this matter took him 12 days. Blackwell is really on the ball ain't he?

[Verve]

38. So what's the next step?

When Blackwell refuses again to answer the questions, what can Conyers do about it?

[mdb]

51. Reading the statement of the Comptroller General.

Congress can impose certain procedural requirements through the Help America Vote Act and the National Voter Registration Act, both of which are enforced by the Department of Justice.

Maybe someone would know how far this could go?

http://www.gao.gov/electionresults.pdf

[wiggs]

39. I do believe there is a not-so-subtle threat in the letter

It is implied that his committee can initiate prosecution.

Also, I wish he had not ended the letter with a simple expectation to see a better response. A more appropriate ending would have been "call your wife and your attorney. A US Marshall will be in your office in one hour with an arrest warrant."

I don't understand why this guy isn't already in jail. Lockdown of public records like what happened is prima facie evidence of fraud that shall be prosecuted!!

[troubleinwinter]

42. I think ya hit a good part of it...

Having read Arnebeck's petition to the court, citing Blackewell's committing of violations of Ohio law and election fraud, I think Blackwell dare not answer Conyers' questions. He is more likely conferring with a criminal attorney at this time.

[ConstitutionGuy]

81. Conyer's is not acting for the committee

They are a minority of the committee and can not bring any force of Congress down without a vote of the entire committee. He can make a public stink and cause a PR problem, but that's it.

[Rosco T.]

45. I do believe the translation of this is...

Your behind is MINE, BEYOTCH!

[texpatriot2004]

54. Yeah, I think you got it. n/t

[tandem5]

52. go get'em! n/t!

[bones_7672]

53. But how can Conyer do ANY good without the backing of the

Judiciary Committee?

[Stand and Fight]

58. Read the Contstitution...

That will tell you everything you need to know... You might also want to do some research. The answers you seek are out there.

[bones_7672]

60. I know what you mean, but no Senator will touch this. n/t

[Verve]

61. Good Hint Yoda! But could you be more specific for those of us who

don't have time to read the constitution? Use some of that knowledge of yours to educate the less educated.:)

[texpatriot2004]

64. kick it for Conyers

[GetTheRightVote]

65. Kick again for Rep. Conyers, Jr., I hope justice is served

Thank you for all your hard work and those who support you in it.

[kerry2win]

67. Conyers asking the questions I wish I could ask

Thanks, I only wish more than Jackson and Olbermann were representing us who have been sileneced. Conyers Olbermann Jackson 08 ...lets take 3 (edit year only 4yrs off)

[Patsy Stone]

68. God Bless John Conyers... n/t

[Kralizec]

69. Keep at it Conyers! The public will come around eventually!! n/t

[floridadem30]

74. At least one of our officials is doing something. n/t

[Guarionex]

75. in plain language, Conyers just said...

Suck my dick, biatch....I asked you a question...answer it!

[proud patriot]

76. :-)

:thumbsup:

[texpatriot2004]

77. kick it again for Conyers

[lizzieforkerry]

82. After reading Blockwell's letter...

I will vote for Conyer for President any time he runs!!!! That man rocks!!!