As it stands, the Democrats will NEVER win another National election.

[IdaBriggs]

I'm an Independent, and I am telling you the truth:

You won in 2000, and Gore rolled over.

You won in 2004, and Kerry rolled over.

You did everything right -- a good candidate, worst opponent EVER in the history of the United States, a good organization, good people, you name it -- more people were active and involved in this election than I have EVER seen before in my life.

And you lost -- WE LOST -- because it was STOLEN.

No one is afraid of you. You lose, you whimper, you whine, you roll over, and the Republicans laugh.

I am a 38 year old college educated woman sitting at a computer in Michigan, and I was able to read reputable evidence of voter fraud in two states, but your candidate -- MY CANDIDATE -- conceded the election, and devastated his supporters.

Is it possible he's playing "rope-a-dope"? Who cares? You will NEVER be able to muster the level of support you garnered this election -- money, time, energy, commitment -- EVER AGAIN because IT DOESN'T MATTER: they STOLE IT, and everything was just some stupid game that made the networks a ton of money, and kept everyone feeling like they were making a difference to democracy.

I am sorry to tell you this, but John Kerry just allowed democracy as we know it to be destroyed. I trust him, so I assume he has a good reason -- perhaps his life was threatened? John McCain is also someone who did the same damn thing not that long ago. The rash of plane crashes containing government officials who don't tow the line certainly raises my suspicions, but let me be clear:

I DON'T CARE. If they are playing dirty, and you folks aren't, SCREW YOU. I'm not interested in your high and mighty falluting principals when I'm burying people I love who SHOULDN'T BE DYING!!! If they are hiring CHURCES to spread their gospel, WHY IN HELL AREN'T YOU PEOPLE? There was over THREE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS TO PAY FOR IT; WHAT THE HELL WAS THE PROBLEM?

"Start a revolution" -- who cares? What do ANY OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT? What'cha going to do, MARCH AROUND IN CIRCLES SOME MORE?

If you aren't putting the crooks in jail, you as a party are completely useless, and your vaunted principals are simply marketing tools.

What more EVIDENCE of conspiracy, murder, theft, you name IT do you folks need before your "leaders" do ANYTHING about it?

Want to know why I'm an Independent? The Republicans are corrupt scum bags, and the Democrats are INEFFECTUAL -- you keep thinking "the rules" apply, when in reality, you have entered a death match.

Right now, DEMOCRACY is down for the count.

Tell me what to do, folks. I'll jump in and join the battle. But I'm not going to waste my time trying to get more VOTES than a bunch of folks who can make numbers MAGICALLY appear when they need them to be there the night of an election -- do I look STUPID?

We didn't lose; we were ROBBED, RAPED, AND LEFT TO DIE. They are laughing their fool heads off, and if they get away with it AGAIN, no one has the right to say ANYTHING about "democracy in America" EVER AGAIN. Your party will die a deserved death for not doing what it needed to do to protect the people.

Now either WHINE AT ME, or GIVE ME A SHOVEL AND TELL ME WHERE TO START DIGGING!!!

And someone tell KERRY TO GET HIS ASS BACK HERE, AND GET TO WORK!!!

[Copperred]

1. real deal

Liberty or death....that is the question.....and its real...

[Gloria]

2. kick

eom

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. And I'm just wondering why I can't have at least one IdaBriggs

living in my community. The time is ripe for Independents to come out and join forces. The Dems needs some depth to their width to make a perfect picture.

[IdaBriggs]

9. We did. My husband & I have NEVER given money or time

to a political group EVER BEFORE. (We took pride in it, to be frank; Independents are the "third great party.") Didn't you notice it yourself? People came out of the woodwork to help John Kerry with this election -- EVEN REPUBLICANS!!!

[The Backlash Cometh]

35. I know Ida.

Something is just not adding up. But here is someone who is willing to do the math for us:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x19390

[Cobalt Violet]

4. I agree. The stealing is our biggest problem.

We have to do something about it now.

[wurzel]

5. We lost because more Americans voted for Bush than Kerry.

Or close enough to make a fraud possible. We have to understand that. Learn the lesson. To get their vote we have to speak their language.

[IdaBriggs]

6. Pay Attention -- MAGIC Votes! 1 Kerry Vote = 2 Bush Votes!

10 POINTS worth of votes just MAGICALLY DISAPPEARED IN FLORIDA AND OHIO!!!

The language is BINARY!!!

[wurzel]

17. Even if that were true it still means tens of millions voted for Bush.

For the fraud to occur the election had to be closer than it ever should have been.

[ciaobox]

8. Fuck that lesson. Fuck the language of ignorance inbreeding

and theocracy. Fuck them. Steal it next time if we have to.

[NVMojo]

11. or play their strategies ....and they are good

[never_get_over_it]

13. Bullshit

We don't have to speak their language we have to get control of the vote count because we can recruit and campaign until we're blue in the face and it will do no good - we had more voters in 2000 and 2004 and they are still in power and even more entrenched. They have been planning this theft for four years

We have to figure out a way to get back an honest or nearly honest voting system and not just for national elections but local ones too.

We have to understand they will now try to systematically dismantle every single social program and protection that we have - we'll be lucky if we'll be able to get medical care - we are screwed if we don't get this back and fast....

[wurzel]

15. How many votes do you think were stolen?

[ciaobox]

19. There are only TWO WAYS TO GET IT BACK

1. Steal the vote ourselves
2. Get Governor's mansions in red states (recall anyone?)

That is it. There is nothing else we can do at this point. I HOPE EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THIS!

[Jawja]

36. We will not get it back

until things get bad enough in this country for a new majority to rise and try to throw these people out of power and then discover that they cannot.

Right now, about half the country is happy with the result and they think democracy is alive and well. It has to become evident to a clear majority of the country that their democracy is gone before something will be done.

It will have to get very bad in this country for that to happen. It is the DIVISION in the country that's the problem right now. That's the reason blatant theft is possible.

[jdj]

14. baloney.

not statistically possible

[JJ]

21. Never happen

Doesn't matter what language you speak if they can't hear you.
Every media; talk radio, network TV, national magazines, and nearly every newspaper in this country and several others (ie: Great Britain, and Australia) are owned by greedy power mad scumbags like Murdoch.
Most Americans never hear the truth.

[wurzel]

25. I guess the next time the way to win is have a good rant.

[liberalpress]

37. Oh Yeah?

Use the mail, the computer, stand on the corner and scream if you have to. We think too globally. Time to think locally. We need to regain it one baby step at a time. It takes longer, but it lasts longer

[ciaobox]

7. Excellent statement. I concur completely.

And to add to that wonderful rant - why do we keep thinking the high road will get us anything but a FUCKING NOSEBLEED? We need to get as dirty and crooked and lowdown as those fuckers. Worse. If we are to EVER win an election, we need to hire an army of fucking prostitutes with hidden video cameras and plant them in every Republican politician's bedroom. We need to OUT every gay Republican. We need to hack the fucking voting machines OURSELVES. We need to plant buff union guys outside polling booths in Repuke neighborhoods and chase them away on voting day. Whatever it takes to RETURN Democracy to America...THEN we can play by the fucking "rules". Get it YET? THREE ELECTIONS IN A ROW STOLEN? GET IT?

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. Election reform from dog catcher on up. Starting NOW

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[IdaBriggs]

16. With MAGIC Votes Against Us? What's the point? nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. The point is the make them not magic any more, see?

[UL_Approved]

12. Concessions aren't binding

Kerry can retract, and the popular vote is still not decided. Other threads mention this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=18511#18654

This could be the November Surprise!

[LondonAmerican]

18. here's hoping

it's going to be harder to make the paper ballots disappear than a bunch of 1s and 0s in an auditless electronic 'voting' machine.

This really is outrageous! Why on earth did Kerry just roll over and die? What about all that high turnout? Where are the ballots?

Why is the democratic party just sitting on its hands?

[ciaobox]

20. Please stop. Just stop.

Kerry would not do that to us. He is not that heartless.

[serryjw]

23. December 13th is D day

after EC meets it is binding...get to work!

[darkism]

22. GET RID OF THE MACHINES

Mike Malloy is saying it right now.

GET RID OF THE MACHINES
or we will never stand a chance.

[DaveofCali]

31. Why would they get rid of them? They help the Republicans....

[GettysbergII]

26. Amen!

So what are our tools of change here:

Boycott all things wingnut
Mass protests of vote fraud and media complicity
What else?

[saracat]

27. Hey Ida. I am with you! You are right!

[VPStoltz]

28. Never?

Wham, Bam, Thank You Ma'am! You really hit it on the head, especially the part about playing by some kind of "rules." The rule of the Repukes is that there are no rules, especially "moral" rules. The hit the track by attacking the candidate personally and create a person the voters don't like. Then you lie, lie, lie, distort and distort the lies into more lies. And as it has been said, "history is lies agreed upon" and the Repukes are great at creating history. What was Kerry trying to prove by being a "gentleman?" Bush is the lowest form of human being, one who shrouds himself in righteousness to hide the demon inside. I equate him with those priests who fondle little boys. They wear the gear, talk the talk, play the game, but all the time have their dirty little hands in someones pocket abusing them and stealing their dignity.

[CHICKEN CAPITOL USA]

29. bush is in for life now

i posted this earlier on another thread but seems appropriate for this one

nothing can possibly change now even though it's obvious there is a moral question that is totally obvious and overlooked-
The problem is that Deibold co is run by republican supporters and contributors.
Regardless if it may be proven or not that underhanded programming occured(the code remains secret and unchallenged),
there STILL remains a CONFLICT of INTEREST sufficient enough to question whether or not the results were fair.
Bottom line:
A partisan company cannot be in charge of counting electronic votes.
(at least not in a fair democracy)

question: what can we do about it now?
A: nothing at all
These voting machines are in place now PERMANENTLY because it's impossible to gather enough votes to investigate or change it with a republican majority in the house.
There MAY never again be a DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS, SENATE, OR EXECUTIVE.
There WILL never be a way to challenge the validity of the results of an election.

ALL right wing proposed laws will pass with little opposition.
Supreme Court appointments as well.

Laws to inhibit opposition groups may be implemented whether they are "fair" or not.
Challengers may be easily put down--patriot act 2 will pass and any groups files will be accessed by those in power and information will be used to ensure that they remain in power.

Bush plans on staying in for life. He will never relinquish power.
He doesn't have to.
One more terra attack and military law may go into effect and any "suspects" as identified by those in power may be imprisoned without access to attorneys.
Sectors, Curfews, Draft, and World Domination is just a congress session away.

[DaveofCali]

30. YOUR RIGHT, DEMOCRACY IS GARBAGE IF ONE SIDE GETS TO RIG IT

WE HAVE TO FUCKIN FIGHT THIS BECAUSE THERE IS NO DEMOCRACY AND THE DEMOCRATS/LIBERALS ARE TOTALLY FINISHED IF WE DON'T FIGHT THIS!!!

[SoCalDemGrrl]

32. F*CK That- We played hard but they have the keys to the VOTING MACHINES

I guess you weren't paying attention in 2000.. We will loose unless/until we demolish the DIEBOLD/ES&S Machines.. period. Game over.. the vote-bots win!

[leftofthedial]

33. since the coup of 2000

the fix is in

the campaigns are a sham

our "leaders" apparently are threatened sufficiently to keep them compliant

I agree, right now, democracy is dead in the water.

[cassiepriam]

34. They did it: Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated

This is their goal and they have accomplished it
for the time being at least.