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Now this is what I've been talking about willlis!!! 25,000 OH Votes Stolen

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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:16 PM
Original message
Now this is what I've been talking about willlis!!! 25,000 OH Votes Stolen
ACCORDING TO...

http://www.gnn.tv/users/user.php?id=46

OHIO STOLEN


2004-11-03 16:26:30

Greg Palast and Randi Rhodes reported today that the state of Ohio was
stolen by the Republicans in election 2004. Ohio was the critical state that tipped the balance, giving the presidency to Bush.

Turns out one County in Ohio, equipped with Diebold electronic voting
machines, reported NEGATIVE 25,000 votes.

Wha?!?

That's what at least one election official in Ohio said. The votes from that County are lost. Not counted. GONE!

*******

RING ANY BELLS!!!!

Diebold deletions... this has happened before, 2000, Volusia county

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0310/S00211.htm

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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. this literally
makes me sick to my fucking stomach. This country sucks.
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Caria Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. I was ALREADY sick to my stomach
This is so, so awful. OK, Kerry has conceded, but can't we still push it and kick up a big stink - for the next four years?
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wurzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. kerry should not have conceded. They should have taken Ohio apart.
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I am so upset at that dive
that I almost wish I had voted for Ross Perot.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Kerry now owes the country a retraction of his concession
But I personally, after being so shocked at his sudden precipitous concession speach, don't think he has the cajones to do it.
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PinkTiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
25. Cajones??? You better cover your own stinking cajones!!!!
Kerry is hung heavy enough to make you look like a girl.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
31. They can still take OH apart and let the * campaign answer for the fraud.
Despite the puke majority in both Houses, there's no way they can't hold him to the fire for this.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. Diebold promises. Diebold delivers.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. Now this is the evidence we need to make a case.
:wow:

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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. A case that gives no recourse for added votes
And fraud is below the libel suit horizon.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. So now what?
:shrug:
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #5
38. Ah, but this is where the much hated ELECTORAL COLLEGE
proves its salt.

Remember that thing? We don't vote for the president, we vote for the electors, and in an election where the results are called into question, states can step in to solve the matter. Like, appointing electors through legislation, through court rulings... Someone would have to see what Ohio requires.

The ELECTORAL COLLEGE was put into place for two reasons, and one of them is exactly this. There is a safegaurd against a corrupt president, if it can be proven in time.

Then, of course, even if the electors choose Bush, Congress has to ratify the choice. Remember f-911? Proof that Bush cheated and a popular outcry of rage will cause miraculous things to happen to party unity in Congress.

Don't quit fighting for what's right just because the path isn't clear. IF we could prove cheating to the point where the rest of the country accepts it, we can stop this.

I don't believe it will happen, but we should fight for what's right, and make them defeat us, rather than surrendering.
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wurzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. So what happens now? Nothing!
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PresidentErnestTBass Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. Well, this guy has an idea
Christopher Knight wrote something on his blog tonight about it. Read it keeping in mind he's a Christian and former freeper.

http://theknightshift.blogspot.com/2004/11/notice-to-talibornagain-bush_03.html
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #18
32. holymoly
That guy is hot! I don't dare even copy it over here. But I'm bookmarking it.
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SoCalDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
37. We find out the truth, and Bush steps down in favor of Kerry

We investigate. We find the truth. If the election was stolen, then in order to preserve our union George Bush MUST step down in favor of the rightfully elected President John Kerry.

That's what happens.

I don't care if it's two months later. If we prove fraud and Kerry should of won, then Kerry is our President.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. Facist Rethugs!!!
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm going to see Palast speak Sunday in SF
I hope we have more info by then .
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madaboutharry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. If it recorded -25,000,
You can't know the amount that it should have recorded. This doesn't tell you what the starting point was, it could be a number much higher than 25,000. You would have to examine the voter rolls to see how many people voted.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. And the lost votes cannot be guessed back
into proper distribution. Like ballots tossed out the window. I don't even see the hapless disheartened team of a billion lawyers even making it an issue. The damn thousand lawyers in Florida 2002. Tell me that Edwards is a skilled corporate lawyer. I know this is politically protected chaos but WTF.

Are they conjoining one of Bev's quiet Qui Tam suits?(ironic mode)
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
14. Election reform, election reform, election reform
Won't matter a bit how great or awful our left side candidates and campaigns are if the ballot boxes are always fiddled with!


We have to scrap the system and start over from scratch!

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm
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grumpy old fart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
15. This is exactly why Kerry fucked up by conceding
Even if the election wasn't going to be reversed, we needed to have the fraud exposed.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. any updates to this?
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grumpy old fart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
19. What county??????????
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grumpy old fart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
20. If it's true, details..........
where are the details on this explosive claim? What County are we talking about? I want to believe, but forgive me, I'm not some bone head repuke who just believes every half tale I'm told.....
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. It doesn't make any difference if Kerry
conceded. The vote count is what counts, period.

First, I'll admit a few tears of frustration and despair -- we all get those moments. Read over the blog post-concession and there's lots of good stuff here -- too tired now to brain-storm, but we've got plenty of material to work with.

Second, concessions mean diddly-squat other than in the public perception. I grant you that it would appear to be really stupid to concede at this point, from a PR standpoint -- it seems to embolden the opponent and also demoralize your supporters by reneging on a promise.

Hopefully you noted the articles saying that the counts will continue in Ohio and Florida. That is because the concession does not change the law in existence at the time of the election... remember your Antichrist Scripture Book of Baker, Chapter 3, "You can't change the rules in the middle..." The only way Kerry could concede the right for the votes to be counted is if he were a party to the "contract" that is an election -- he isn't...that agreement exists between the United States and its citizenry.

That was exactly the reason why the USSC should never have taken Bush v. Gore -- w was not a party in interest; it wasn't his vote that was allegedly being diminished, it was the votes of Floridians. In legal terms, w did not have "standing" to make the claim -- he could not stand in the shoes of the people whose rights he was claiming to defend.

Let's take this another step -- what if when the counts are completed, it shows Kerry won Ohio or Fla or both? Do those states then choose not to award those electoral votes even though the concession was based on early returns and the provisionals/absentees were lopsided for Kerry? Please!! The citizens of those states can seek to force the naming of the proper (Dem) electoral slate...Kerry can help by seeking to join as a third party plaintiff or by filing amicus briefs, but basically, it is not his ox being gored here (no pun intended when I decided to use that phrase, but it is fitting, no?). Shouldn't we want him enough to fight for him? He did for us, and I'm not convinced this isn't strategic, although I haven't had the benefit of viewing his concession speech.

Another step -- even if the counts don't go Kerry's way, suppose that due to efforts by various individuals and groups we demonstrate that there is something fishy, get investigations, etc., and can raise a colorable claim of election fraud. And don't start in on me with the nay-saying -- fraud takes time to investigate, you can't do a damned thing until it's going down, and the polls haven't even been closed for 24 hours yet. The corpse not only isn't cold yet -- it isn't even a fucking corpse! So quit your keening over the late-not-so-great Kerry campaign; no sale.

Okay, back to the fraud -- one major pillar of the law is that decisions (legal rulings, contracts, etc.) based on fraud are not binding. The Latin term is "void ab initio," which I always liked for some reason, meaning held void from the beginning, as if it never existed. Now, granted, I have no idea of the application of the concept to say, an inauguration, but I think it could certainly be applied to the certification of a slate of electors.

Without doing research on more of the specifics, I can't come up with a date (seem to recall mid-December from 2000...) and even if the certifications go thru then, proof of fraud could arguably require recert up to inauguration.

BOTTOM LINE: From what I can prod out of my brain right now, it is my belief that we have about a month and a half to get at least probable cause level evidence on the fraud in order to attempt a halt of the certification of the electors' slates.

The counts are going on, and that *may* pull our butts out of the fire, but as someone up-blog noted, we've got no time to be depressed. Today was it -- seven stages of grief compressed into one afternoon (or maybe a weekend) consisting largely of disbelief. {Hang on to that Anger character, though, there will be pressing need for that...}

Tomorrow, we begin....research, interview voters (e-mail family and friends in swing states and ask them to describe their voting experience in as much detail as they can recall – things that didn’t seem notable at the time often raise flags later), find something, anything, that you can do to work on this collectively. This is one time when it’s not just okay to ‘throw yourself into work’ to avoid despair – it’s absolutely essential that you do exactly that. In other cases, it would prevent healing; in this case, it could erase the reason for the despair.

It will take a few days for the organizations to put plans in place to know where to assign volunteers. (Not saying this was unexpected, but again, impossible to deal with fraud until you know its form.) This leaves a few days of feeling directionless. Go to the various websites and indicate your willingness to help – that will help them have a better idea of resources. Let them know if you can travel, work via internet, etc. Be specific about talents that you think may be helpful – Can you get people to talk easily? – actors, apply here (remember, we are not agents of the state bound by the Fourth Amendment). Are you good at research, statistics, computer programming, demystifying technical verbiage often contained in esoteric elections regulations, a writer able to translate an interview into an affidavit? Do the e-mail interviews of family and friends (make sure to ask about turnout, lines, etc.), if they know ANYONE who worked the polls or in BOE offices (lots of temps), see if they can get them to talk.

None of this will be easy by any stretch of the imagination. This will take the combined effort, resources and strength of will of everyone who realizes that this is our country that is on the line. We ARE fighting for our lives, here. But, realistically, what did we expect? We knew that anything but “Kerry in a Landslide” was a recipe for repug “problems” after the election. We knew that the fight would continue into December or longer, even if the counts were over. We just hoped that we would be in a position of perceived strength for the fight. But perceived strength can be overrated. The element of a surprise knockout punch from a seemingly toppled foe cannot be.

We are the underdog. We are Rocky. We are DanielSan. We are the BoSox down three games to the New York Yankees, the richest team in baseball. They may have the money, but we have the talent and the will to take them out. They know that. They believe they have vanquished us because they have taken our head. But, like the mythical Hydra, the creature that will pursue them in their waking nightmare has many heads, all of which will be striking at different points at different times.

We are united - we will not be deterred, and we will not be denied the electoral process due us. This is not the end of anything; it is simply a new stage of the fight, slightly less heady than expected. But infinitely more gratifying if it comes off.

C'mon -- it's actually OUR turn now -- we get our chance to kick the bully in the nads. How many threads have I seen here crying in frustration that Kerry-Edwards weren't going for the jugular? They couldn't -- we can. It's that part of the movie where the bullied have to stand up and realize that together they are strong.

So, again I ask "What is this shith?.... Over?! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? **** It's not over til WE say it's over!" Because, dammit -- WE ARE THE PEOPLE.

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2590721>

If this url doesn't work, the post is called "What Is This Shith?!"
back about 3 pages or so.
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grumpy old fart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Thanks for the pep talk, but
Is anyone following up on this? Just "counting the votes" ain't gonna get it. It's the bbv fraud that needs to be pursued. what is being done, right now, to preserve the evidence? All this anecdotal b.s. doesn't amount to much at this point.
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RememberTheCoup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. ditto. I don't see this on Palast or Rhodes websites.
And I don't know much about gnn.
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Robert Oak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
21. here we go, now what are we gonna do?
I don't trust all of his journalism, but his story on the 2000 election
had documents, tapes and bonified proof.

The US media? completely ignored it.

We need to push this up.

kick!
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darkism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
23. kick
:kick: and nominated
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meisje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
27. Plese see this thread
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brettdale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
28. The media has to report on this
This has to get out.
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Lil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
29. I think this is the article with the info. from Randi Rhodes [25 million]
Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 12:16 AM by Lil
http://www.vindy.com/basic/news/281829446390855.php
It has some very good informaion

Mahoning and Mercer counties

. . .

The problems were a combination of human and computer errors, Munroe said.

"We've never seen anything like this before," he said.

Of the 16 precincts, 11 were in Youngstown, two in Boardman, one in Jackson Township, one in Craig Beach, and one in Washingtonville.

Some of the machines malfunctioned, others had problems with the personal electronic ballot cartridge placed into the machines before each vote to count the ballots, and other problems were caused by human error, Munroe said.

The human error specifically was precinct officials getting nervous or overwhelmed by the number of people voting, and then failing to properly follow protocol to count the ballots in the machine, he said.

That led to some races showing votes of negative 25 million, Munroe said.

"The numbers were nonsensical so we knew there were problems," he said.

There were similar problems at four or five other Mahoning precincts, but poll officials there were alert enough to catch the problems, and fix them, said Thomas McCabe, deputy elections director.



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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
30. Name of county?
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Lil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #30
40. for URL below it is Mahoning and Mercer counties, OH
Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 05:14 AM by Lil
http://www.vindy.com/basic/news/281829446390855.php
It has some very good informaion

Mahoning and Mercer counties
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Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
33. I don't know the legalities involved,
and that part of the fight is up to American citizens, although I'll
cheer you on to the end.

But if nothing else is achieved, getting this information out there
will cast a cloud over Bush's second term. He's always been dogged
by the theft of the 2000 election; let's make sure the theft of 2004
sticks with him as well. Let everybody know that he's a cheat, a
thief, a liar and an imposter. Don't let it rest, get this info
out to everyone you can think of. Get people like MoveOn involved;
their resources are huge.

Shout it out loud: BUSH CHEATED AGAIN!!
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GoblinToe Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
34. For the love of country

Why does the mainstream media IGNORE this?! It's their country, too.

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SoCalDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
35. That is consistent with my analysis of exit polls

EVoting states showed discrepancies. When we can get exit polls for each precinct and compare them against the evoting vs. non-evoting precinct results, we will know with a much greater degree of certainty where the problems are. A discrepancy of 25,000 votes will become alot easier to find.

The same exact problem happend in 2000 in Florida with one of their precincts. The conclusion of that investigation was that fraud was quite likely; someone may of swapped out a memory card.

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nomatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. The "power outage" that lost votes in FL
2000 election I think was in Volusia or Hillsboro. I got it somewhere. Anyway the power company said there were no outages reported anywhere around there. There were thunderstorms in other counties but no power outages. Then they said it was a bad disc.
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Cookie wookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
36. What county?
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