Breaking!! : Washington Court decides in favor of Dems!!!!!!!

[VTGold]

Its at the top of the page "Breaking News"


"The Supreme Court of Washington has ruled that King County should allow over 700 uncounted votes in the recount for Washington's governor. More to follow. "


http://www.king5.com/

[Fiona]

1. the headline

says a decision is coming later today. The full article requires registration. Can you excerpt what you read?

[New Earth]

5. it's at the very top of the page in a red banner

"BREAKING NEWS: Wash. Supreme Court rules in favor of Dems
The Supreme Court of Washington has ruled that King County should allow over 700 uncounted votes in the recount for Washington's governor. More to follow."

[Fiona]

12. thanks

didn't see it. Way cool.

[SueZhope]

16. HOLLY F--------ing S------T!!!

Those votes will be counted..
Today there is democracy!!!
:grouphug: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :grouphug:

[pbartch]

72. I nominated this thread for our FRONT PAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[caligirl]

8. In the red strip across the top it has the short version, is this what

you meant?

[sabra]

11. Try bugmenot.com n/t

[read the law first]

A 10 vote margin will not survive a contest. Sorry but true.

A 710 vote margin, maybe. But there's no 10 vote margin in a state wide race anywhere in the country that can't be beat in a contest. Heck, I'd say there's not even a State House race anywhere in the country that could survive with a 10 vote margin.

Flame on.

[Fiona]

41. What do you mean?

there's no legal "minimum margin" to win. Whoever gets the most votes wins.

[read the law first]

47. The standard for an election contest

The standard to win an election contest is to show more illegal votes or unlawful ballots than the margin (in some states its the margin plus the undervote). Accordingly, in order to set an election aside, all the contestant has to show is, in this instance, 8 votes. I can find 8 illegal votes or unlawful ballots in a state wide race in my sleep. But, go ahead and pop the champagne. Just know if the margin stays under say, 250, the election is going to be set aside no matter who wins it.

[Fiona]

49. The 8-vote margin is WITHOUT

the King County ballots. With them, she'll have a more sizeable lead.

[read the law first]

50. that's why I said 710, then maybe.... n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

66. Not necessarily true

We've had local elections in Alaska won by fewer than 10 votes

[read the law first]

74. Not that survived a contest, I'll bet.

I'll bet in those instances, the loser simply accepted the "will of the people" (or the losers had incredibly poor lawyers).

[Richard Steele]

89. No flame, you make a GOOD Point.

But a better point is: any (fair) CONTEST is gonna give it to the DEM!

"When EVERY vote counts, Democrats WIN!"

Let them CONTEST this in a fair court; let their sleazy tactics become public knowledge!

Unless they outright OWN a judge, they know they can't DARE contest this!
They have MUCH more to lose than one race!

[caligirl]

2. Now get those votes opened and counted quick!!!!~

[New Earth]

3. awesome

and WHOEVER gets the most votes out of those remaining will be a legitimate winner, no matter which party. And that's how it should be.

COUNT ALL THE VOTES, it's not rocket science. :bounce:

[bemis12]

17. Well said

In the very unlikely event that these break for Rossi, he wins.

The additional votes will help add to Gregoire's legitimacy, though. I would have hated to have only an 8 vote win, and only on the third try.

[Helga Scow Stern]

54. This sets a precedent for

counting all the votes. :party: :toast: :party:


That should be celebrated even more than who wins.

[Straight Shooter]

69. My sentiments exactly.

This is a victory for the voters, not for Dems or Repubs.

:thumbsup:

[davidwparker]

83. Agreed.

Although I'd like to see a Dem win, I can live with ANY race if all who voted had their votes counted without monkey business. Voters first. Party loyalty somewhere down the list.

[SharonAnn]

4. And, she may be ahead by 8 even without the additional ballots.

With her ahead, the GOP will want thos additional ones counted, won't they? Or will they go tho the Supreme Court of the United States?

Hmmm.

Merry Christmas Christine! And the state of Washington too!

[pa28]

28. If they did go to SCOTUS would Gore Vs. Bush be relevent?

Maybe some legal types out there know the answer.

[AllegroRondo]

35. No, that was specifically a one time deal

for some reason, wording was included in the decision that said it could not be used as a precedent for any other case.

[bemis12]

6. Good! That's as it should be.

They'll almost certainly go to Gregoire 2-1, ending any hopes Rossi had. Nevertheless, I'm REALLY glad these won't be the deciding margin.

[sabra]

7. The way it should have been from the beginning!

"OLYMPIA, Wash. — The Supreme Court of Washington has decided that over 700 disputed King County ballots should be included in recount for Washington governor - a decision that could very well decide the astoundingly close race between Republican Dino Rossi and Democrat Christine Gregoire.
"

[Career Prole]

9. It'll be a Gregoire Christmas.

Count 'em all...everywhere!!
:bounce:

[liam97]

13. When you and stand and fight

you win (I mean not the election) but a fair counting. What in the world is the senator thinking?

[Patsy Stone]

10. Life is Good

I have to say, since the beginning of this whole thing, all I've wanted was for every vote to be counted, regardless of who wins.

I still feel that way. Even if the 570+ votes sink Gregoire, I'm happy. Count EVERY vote.

[Generator]

14. So how many of them are going to be going Dem?

But just to say even if she lost, dammit, of course they should be counted.

This is what happens when you fight(and when you live someplace decent like the Northwest..sorry but we don't play your bullshit east coast games..damn I'm mean today!!! YEAH)

Dammit Kerry you should have fought a little longer. Dammit dammit dammit. I need to go cry now.

[bemis12]

22. There's a world of difference

between 42 votes and 119,000 votes. Kerry wouldn't have conceded at 42 votes, and Gregoire wouldn't have pursued this if she were 100,000 behind.

[Helga Scow Stern]

58. What? Only cheating of a small magnitude should be pursued?

That doesn't quite make sense....:freak:

[rucky]

24. King county is very blue. n/t

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

75. Dino Rossi is also from King County

I think that plays into the fact that he lost there. They know what kind of politician he really is.

[seito]

26. There is a small difference here

About 117,000 votes... Give or take.

My hopes rest with the extensive fraud investigation which will continue beyond any artificial deadlines imposed by the courts. Kerry, the prosecutor never lost a case. I do not expect that he will lose the one that will bring down the BFEE once and for all.

[Generator]

32. Well that is my hope as well

That Kerry will bring down Bush eventually,though sadly not by becoming President.

But then I get to read bullshit posts in this forum about "how maybe Kerry worked with a Rove plant and that was how he got the nomination".

There's good stuff in this forum, and absolute TRASH.

[PaganPreacher]

63. "Kerry, the prosecutor never lost a case." Well, he won one case, anyway.

In truth, John Kerry was just average as a county prosecutor- nothing to write home about, though.

John Kerry, as Middlesex County Prosecutor, only won one major trial in 3 years. In 1977, John Kerry prosecuted a gangster for raping a prostitute (Commonwealth v. Edgerly.) He secured a conviction on the original charge.

He has no further record of winning cases as a prosecutor.

He did successfully argue a motion as a defense attorney in 1982, which resulted in the release of a suspect convicted of murder (Commonwealth v. Reissfelder).

He also won a $90,000 judgment in a 1982 medical malpractice case, winning against a doctor who implanted carpet fibers into the scalps of bald men. The name of the plaintiff is lost to posterity, but this may have been him:


source: http://news.findlaw.com/newsmakers/john.kerry.html)

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[Cheswick2.0]

93. I will believe he is on this case when I see him say so in public

I hope Will is right about Kerry joining the fray today. But I am not holding my breath.

[lwesty]

29. not to be picky,

but what "east coast games" are you referring to? Perhaps you should be more specific, maybe...southeast...instead of generalizing? I mean you wouldn't want to offend the eastern blue states, now would you?

[Generator]

39. Well I think the Northwest is superior

I lived in NYC for awhile and I loved it. But I think overall, life is better here.

I would have no problem taking OR/WA northern California and making our own country. We seem to get things right here. I think there is less BS-and more people involvement here. Even our local media has covered the fraud issue, in the Oregonian, on the radio.

In Oregon-we have the best voting system in the country. If they tried to pull Ohio here-well it wouldn't happen-the people would be in the streets until the cows-err...the Democracy came home.

[Carolab]

64. So true

you guys indeed ROCK (almost as much as us true blue Minnesotans!!!)

[seito]

15. Finally, a Victory for Democracy

Every Vote Counts

Count EVERY Vote

Don't you just love what we stand for. :loveya:

[Broken Acorn]

18. Aren't you all glad that we donated to the WA recount?

My $50 towards it feels better than any xmas present I got for anyone.


Hoping for a very Kerry Christmas as well!

[candice]

20. Yes, $40 of the thousand I spent for Democrats this election actually

did some good!

[VTGold]

19. If you register you can watch live coverage on Seattle NBC

[rucky]

21. I guess that means the 'pugs will start with the recall petitions...

any Austrian bodybuilders residing in Washington that we need to know about?

[NV Whino]

52. No, but we'll be happy to send one up there.

But not for a recall! Don't even think I'm suggesting that.

[ogradda]

23. :) :) :) :) :)

that's GREAT news!

[tjdee]

25. Should be UPHOLDS CONSTITUTION.

Why is it that only Democrats (lately, anyway) want to count ALL the votes?

That court actually ruled in favor of America.

[iamjoy]

94. Or Voters...

I thought the same thing, this is a way media could influence public decision (against Democrats)

By the headline reading that the courts ruled in favor of the Democrats, people could infer that when we don't win an election out right, we go to the courts and seek to use our legal system to overturn "the will of the people"

Had it said rules in favor of "voters" then it sounds like the courts are looking out for the little guy, which is a more accurate analysis of the ruling.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

27. Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I listened to the tail end of the hearing

And had an excellent feeling that they would!

[RaulVB]

30. HELL, YES!!!

Rossi, "pal"...YOU LOST, GET OVER IT!!!:smoke:

[RaulVB]

31. A great victory for the democratic forces! (n/t)

[republikkkon]

33. did they announce this

after it was leaked that gregoire had won by 8 votes? would they have still come to this decision if Rossi had prevailed in the recount?

[suffragette]

34. supremes stand with the people

Count those votes.
Proud of them.

[AllegroRondo]

36. When ALL votes are counted, Democrats win

[Generator]

40. YES YES YES

It's that simple. Why do we believe we are the minority? WE AREN'T.

[Farah]

well said!

[Farah]

62. n/t

sorry... dupe

[bush_is_wacko]

37. Her's a snip

Use bugmenot.com guys, you can read the whole story w/o resgistering, they'll give you an email and password.

<<snip>>

OLYMPIA, Wash. — The Supreme Court of Washington has decided that over 700 disputed King County ballots should be included in recount for Washington governor - a decision that could very well decide the astoundingly close race between Republican Dino Rossi and Democrat Christine Gregoire.

[JoMama49]

38. Isn't this more reason to do a hand recount of Ohio? n/t

[txaslftist]

42. YEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAW

[thedevilinthedetails]

43. The headline should read 'Supreme Court Rules in favor of VOTERS'

not Democrats!

Also, REPUBLICAN Secretary of State Sam Reed had the exact same position as the "democrats" in this appeal of a lower court order. Yes, even a Republican believes that voter rights are paramount in this case and that is what this is, a victory for ALL VOTERS, not just Democrats or Gregoire. Remember, nobody knows who these absentee ballots voted for. They are still sealed and have never been counted. Sure, you can bank on King Count and it's large Gregoire leanings so far in this election, but you never now, those particluar absentee ballots could lean Rossi's way.

And that's what this is about. Count the votes. PERIOD. Administrative error does not give the county a right to disenfranchise voters.

That being said, it's very good news for Gregoire...

[VTGold]

45. Democrats wanted to count votes - Republican didn't - hence headline

[NC Beach Girl]

44. Hooray!

Thanks for posting this, great news!

[Nothing Without Hope]

46. So what's next? The US Supreme Court?

The Repubs are going to want to fight. They hate inconvenient (for them) democracy. Here's an excerpt from an AP article that appeared about an hour ago (apparently written before the court decision) at Yahoo:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=703&e=1&u=/ap/20041222/ap_on_re_us/governor_recount
(snip)
More court battles appeared inevitable. Rossi has said that he would consider challenging the election results in court if he loses the third count after winning the first two. Republicans have already started preparing for a possible court challenge.
(snip)
About 350 people gathered Tuesday to show support for Rossi in front of the Supreme Court, at a rally sponsored by a conservative talk-radio station.

The crowd chanted "No more fraud!" They held signs saying "Welcome to Ukraine" and wore orange, a tribute to the signature color of demonstrators in Ukraine who protested a fraud-marred election there.
(snip)
Apparently the Rethug "anti-fraud" demonstrators utterly lack a sense of irony, not to mention intelligence or class of any kind.

The good news is that the Secretary of State, a Republican, supported including the King county ballots in the recount, a refreshing sign of integrity. Too bad so few prominent people of his party are like him:
(snip)
A lawyer for the secretary of state's office urged the state's highest court Wednesday to allow hundreds of recently discovered ballots to be counted in the undecided governor's race. He said the law on recounts allows canvassing boards to fix errors caused by election staff.
(snip)

[RuleofLaw]

55. I doubt the US Supreme Court would take this case

This is truly a state case, involving state law. Bush v. Gore was supposedly also a state case (Fla. Law) but the court made it their case because of the nationwide implications. This case on the other hand only pertains to Washington State.

[Nothing Without Hope]

73. I have to agree

The SCOTUS was so reviled about the Bush vs Gore travesty, they will be cautious about carefully choosing the next time they step into an election case and onto the Constitution. And this one is local, as you say.

Sickening hearing about the Repub "anti-fraud" protestors about this case, stirred up by a local conservative talk show host.

[bmoney07]

48. lets see what the repukes cry abour now!

n/t

[StephanieMarie]

51. The Title should be "Supreme court rules in favor of democracy"

That's what we're really talking about here -- we have to make it a non-partisan, American issue!

[suffragette]

53. court order on Secretary of State's site

If anyone's interested, the case documents are posted on the WA Secretary of State's website.
Wow, they're fast.
http://www.secstate.wa.gov/

[roenyc]

59. thanks for the great news

watched the hearings earlier. the republican lawyer was saying that allowing the 700 plus ballots into the universe of votes would cause his people harm. huh? but he couldn't explain the harm. So the Dem comes up and says yeah, it will cost you the election. lol

i was so worried that the Dem's and people would lose. but they won and this is a win for democracy. i am so happy about this. too bad same thing isn't happening in OHIO. but its a start.

i just cant believe that witch didn't let those votes in in the lower court. how can they get away with things like that. its just wrong.

[Rose Siding]

67. That's what Olsen argued in Bush v Gore

It didn't make sense to me then either. I believe that they meant that the "harm" is losing the election. But *one* party or the other is going to be harmed, no matter how the court decides! Both cases concern the benefit of the VOTERS, not of the litigants.

[caligirl]

56. Caal are being taken on live cable over the decision the number

to call into the King5 live show is 1-800-305-nwcn

[StephanieMarie]

57. Here's my letter to their web editor:

Your headline should read "Wash. Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Democracy", not "Democrats". We're talking about our most vital element of a democracy, which is the right of every citizen to vote AND to have that vote counted!

[skids]

60. Somewhere in WA, or thereabouts...

There's probably a very mad Republican businessman or several who invested heavily in some sort of back-room deal believing that Rossi had things wrapped up. He was probably assured of it in a wink-wink nudge-nudge sort of way.

Let the infighting commence. Here, we celebrate! :party:

It is like a breath of very sweet, fresh cool air. Oh wait. There's too much of that up here already right now.

It is like a bright warm beam of sunshine.

[ZRB]

61. Woo!

I just hope that these ballots aren't from a republican stronghold in King County. There are a few of those around!!! :mad:

[Pepper32]

65. Democracy still has a heartbeat! Yessss

Some good news for a change, 700 people will get their vote counted. :D Thank-you!

[pacalo]

68. Won't this case serve as a precedent for the upcoming cases

regarding recounts?

Hotdiggity dog! :toast:

[McCamy Taylor]

70. only for recounts in Washington State

[GetTheRightVote]

71. Yes, this is not about the Democrats, It is about every Vote Counting

:bounce:

[thehim]

76. R's will lose it

The persecution complex of the R's in Washington will reach epic proportions after this. I can't wait to see the discuss on Sound Politics tomorrow...

[raysr]

77. Especially after his comment

"Gregoire trusts lawyers not the voters". And then there's his demand of a concession. Now they're talking about election reform, only when they lose. Just think how many people would be alive today if the "Supremes" hadn't stopped the count in Florida 4 years ago. And then there's Kerry's early concession...

[thehim]

78. The bottom line is that all votes are counted

Now there's a push to find absentee military votes that were not counted. This thing may never end. The bottom line is that all votes that were cast by registered voters should be counted. Even if that means Rossi wins.

The folks at Sound Politics have an email from someone who claims the vote counters in King County were cheating. It just gets uglier.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[thehim]

80. LOL

No, I'm not a Freeper. I'm a moderate that leans left. I actually voted for Rossi, but I'd rather the vote be accurate than for him to win.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[thehim]

82. No

You'd guess wrong. I was very strongly opposed to the War in Iraq, but I'm a moderate when it comes to fiscal issues, and I have some disagreement with some Democratic positions, such as gun control and affirmative action. I still consider myself an independent voter, but the neocon faction, with their delusion vision of our conflict with Al Qaeda being a 'clash of civilizations', scares the crap out of me. Too much of what they say and believe is echoed in Mein Kampf. That's why I identify myself with Democrats mostly these days.

[raysr]

84. The Bush Administration

is anything but "fiscally conservative". And the fact that all Repubs are expected to toe the party line your vote for Rossi doesn't add up.

[thehim]

85. I don't believe that

Not all Republicans are in goose step with Bush. Many are just riding his coattails. And others are Republicans because they've always been republicans and don't really feel compelled to change. The bottom line is that I still won't write off all Republicans because of Bush. Many moderate Republicans are still good people and good politicians.

I agree that Bush is not fiscally conservative. He's more of a free-market libertarian. But I have no reason to believe that Rossi would be just as irresponsible out of party loyalty. The economic problems we will face as a state will exist whether we have Rossi or Gregoire as governor. Schwarzenegger is not pressured by Bush in setting his budget, and there's no reason to expect Rossi to be.

I do believe that it's essential for Democrats to take over Congress in 2006. The Republican control of both houses has given us irresponsibility in government spending that is unimaginable.

[selmo7]

86. There's a great satisfaction

in knowing that at least SOME of the recount money I donated went for something that seems to be turning out REALLY GOOD.

Whoo HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[raysr]

87. Every Republican

I've seen lately that veered from the party line got persecuted big time, Alen Spector comes to mind. I quit split ticketing after Ronald Reagan and the Gingrich bunch. Arnold will fall in line when they amend the constitution to let foreign born run.

[Learning2Fly]

88. My husband quit the Republican party

due to the Gingrich bunch! Rossi is from Bellevue, right? I would expect massive support for him there, but not in Seattle. But, as Seattle would have more registered voters, the majority of the 700+ uncounted King County ballots probably come from Seattle, favoring Gregorio.

[dobegrrrl]

90. About time

we got one. Repugs will probably try to take it to the "supremes" even though they do not have jurisdiction.
:headbang:

[Matariki]

91. telling quote from Rossi's campaign

particularly the part about reconsidering disqualified REPUBLICAN ballots. They sure don't get it.

from the Seattle Times:
<quote>
Rossi and the Republicans vowed to fight on. They talked of contesting the results in court or pressing county auditors around the state to reconsider disqualified ballots from Republican voters.

"This is the election without end," said state Republican Party Chairman Chris Vance. "This is the election without rules."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002128486_recount23m.html

[Wabbajack]

92. Who do you pronouce Gregorie?

Greg waar

Gregory

Greg-ory

?

[uppityperson]

95. Greg warr. Victory is that votes count, not dem wins.

It's one of those french pronounciations (giggle to myself). And this is NOT a democratic victory aside from the fact that they are the ones that want votes to count and our country to remaina democracy. It's a victory for democracy itself. Of course I'd like her to get the most votes, but over that, the votes need to cimply be counted. And thank you dem party for helping this happen.

[uppityperson]

99. It's spelled Gregoire

Gregorie would be greg-ory but Gregoire is greg-warr

[puddycat]

96. Thank God. We need some good news. I've been so down since the election.

I'm finding I try to avoid most news--there is simply not a lot to cheer about.

[terbear143]

97. craziness

This whole thing is totally crazy. I think both sides are acting like babies. I do think EVERY vote should count no matter what though. Being a washington resident and working with people that are on both sides of the spectrum it's hard to have and keep an opinion to myself. If Rossi wins my sister looses her job (she works for Gary Locke, our current Gov) so it's hard to explain that side to people... Without sounding like a total moron... ya know.

[terbear143]

100. The thing is...

I was willing to accept (reluctantly) Rossi's win. First count was him winning by 42, but when I found out that the margin of error was 4000 votes... I mean, come on... People also need to look at the Secretary of State... (SAM reed) he has been handling this so poorly... it almost doesn't matter what happens... just so long as it happens fairly!

[mimitabby]

98. the people win!!

imho, even if rossi ends up winning after they count the KC votes (and wouldn't that be hilarious if those blowhards wasted all our time and money and the contested votes went to rossi?!!)
COUNTING the votes is the point, in the state of washington, at least we don't have officials saying "sorry, this box doesn't print vote receipts, you'll just have to trust us"

I'm pretty happy about this imagine, winning by 8 votes!