We must have a smoking gun to prevail on January 6th

[Ugnmoose]

For those old enough to remember, it was the discovery of the Nixon tapes and the 18 minute gap (erasure) that sealed the deal and drove Nixon from the White House. In order to get the Repukes to disqualify the Ohio electors, we will need to have solid irrefutable evidence of fraud. If this happens they will not be able to withstand the public's outrage. They will have no choice but to vote to disqualify. We can only hope that Arneback's suit and evidence being gathered by Conyers and others is going to produce such evidence. If not, you can expect January 6th to be a pyrrhic victory.

[Griffy]

1. I think a few million on the lawn will help! be in DC on the 6th nt

[liam97]

2. lets just aim

for 1 million!

[knowbody0]

3. i think we have a smokin ak47

[OldLeftieLawyer]

4. If that story about fraud -

manipulation of the voting machines' software - in Ohio is true (and I am completely certain that Kerry would never have made his entrance and taken it to Federal Court if that informant hadn't been thoroughly vetted - and then placed under 24-hour guard), that's all the smoke and gun anyone could need.

That would suspend all of Ohio's votes, it would render the certification and voting by the Ohio electors null and void, and it would paralyze the entire Electoral College.

As I've been saying since November 3, John Kerry could conceivably make history with this situation.

It's far from over.

[Ugnmoose]

6. Hi Old Lefty

Good to see you posting. Given your astute legal mind - what's your take on the events unfolding in Ohio? Legally, what do you think will happen with the Ohio SC and will that bear any relevance to the January 6th vote.

[txindy]

7. I believe you're absolutely right

It's just beginning, really. And I have a feeling that the eventual outcome will make all of this angst we've been experiencing since Election Day seem like a very meager price to pay.

[seito]

8. Hi OldLeftie

Good to see you. :hi:

This thing has played out pretty much as you predicted weeks ago.

Thanks for your posts.

[TA]

12. So what happens if the Ohio vote is null and void????

Because of the mess and impossibility to do a reasonable recount:

1. Would Ohio hold a new election?

2. Would the Ohio electoral votes be thrown out?

Either way Kerry wins, right?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

17. It depends

There are a lot of steps to take before the matter of the countable votes is even ripe.

Your two questions are so complicated, you have no idea what you just did to the inside of my head: :nuke:

Here are the possibilities (in no particular order or significance):

Remember, it all hinges on what the courts do - you better believe that Fuckface's guys are going to be right in court opposing this motion, and, conceivably, fighting it all the way to the Supreme Court.

So, that's the first big hurdle.

Assuming, arguendo, that the judge on the District Court level allows the emergency petition AND secures the evidence ("evidence" here is defined as every fucking vote in Ohio, as well as every tabulation, every voting machine, every goddamned piece of paper associated with November 2, 2004), that all could be held on ice, so to speak, while the emergency motion is argued all the way to the Supreme Court.

What the SC will do is anyone's guess, so I've got nothing there.

But, if Kerry were to prevail - and this is, of course, my ideal scenario - then I would guess that the Ohio Electors' votes of December 13 are immediately declared invalid, the other Electors' are officially notified that a recount will take place, the matter of the President of the Senate reading the Electoral College results of January 6 is forestalled because of the Ohio recount, and - my goodness, I'm drooling all over myself here - the January 20 inauguration is postponed until the votes in Ohio are recounted and tabulated UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE FEDERAL COURT.

I envision Federal Marshals and Deputies all over Ohio, standing over the vote re-counters.

I see John Kerry steadfastly pursuing every legal alternative, and thwarting the Fuckface legal contingent every time, all on the basis of the fraud in Ohio.

By the way - and this is just lagniappe - if the Ohio matter gets a foothold in the Federal Court system, I can imagine the same argument being quickly taken to Florida, if the Kerry investigators have amassed the same kind of "evidence," i.e., irrefutable proof of vote fraud.

Finally, hello, folks, :hi: and it's good of you to remember my earlier posts. We are far from finished, so let's quietly keep the faith.

[TA]

18. Thank you my friend and now the inside of my head is going round

and round. It definitely would be a clusterfuck wouldn't it?

[pick_a_dilly]

20. hell ya --- t remember old LEFTY's posts well and . . .

they were very on target . . . they came at a time when i was really depressed and needed some good news ------


THANKS AGAIN LEFTY ------ WE SURE ARE GLAD YOU ON OUR TEAM!!!!

[crickets]

24. Thank you, OldLeftie

These are strange, frustrating times. The news from Will Pitt today and posts like this one really lift my spirits.

[zann725]

27. So good to see ya back! Always appreciate your expertise!

While I'm not an attorney, I agree with your scenario that the Inauguration might be post-poned. I feel Shrubco will be kicking and screaming about this...trying to force their way in. But somehow I feel whatever goes down on Jan 6, and prior to Jan 20 is going to leave the "final results" in limbo on Jan 20. Just not enough time. Plus had it been another candidate, might be easier getting them out of the WH if they lost. But Shrub simply believes he's above the law, and that EVERYTHING must go his way. Boy is he going to have an 'awakening' soon.

Also re: the Inaugural date. I mentioned on a few other threads, but will mention it again. As far-fetched as this may seem, numerologically John Kerry seems to be surrounded by the number "7." Luckily, January 6 is a "7." And the year 2005 is a "7." January 20 however is NOT a "7"...which makes me lean toward the possibility that the Inauguration of President Kerry will be delayed. Also, if Kerry gets inaugurated any day AFTER January 20, then he will most likely serve as President for "7" years (plus odd months).

[s-cubed]

28. Hi, Old Leftie - where have you been?

John Kerry said in his message laden video that we would CHANGE history - it's going to happen.

[DesEtoiles]

5. Will this do?

http://2004.georgewbush.org/deadletteroffice/index.asp


DEAD LETTER OFFICE
E-MAIL FROM THE GEORGEWBUSH.ORG "CATCH-ALL" MAILBOX

OCTOBER, 2004: Recently, we at GeorgeWBush.org happened to notice that our mail server had a default "catch-all" mailbox, which for the past several months had been quietly gathering any and all e-mails addressed to @georgewbush.org. We felt the need to share.

10.29.2004 UPDATE: GeorgeWBush.org initially posted a select few highlights of the e-mails from its catch-all mailbox. But in response to overwhelming interest in this material, we have since dug back into the pile. You'll find today's newly posted e-mails in the YELLOW shaded boxes below. Also, the catch-all box has now been disabled, having been suddenly overwhelmed by thousands of spam and virus e-mails.

[latteromden]

9. *snort* Whaaaaat is that? I don't quite understand, although I do

a little.

"Can't we say something intelligent?" Ah, don't they just wish.

[DesEtoiles]

13. As discussed previously on DU

but I can't find the thread.

I do remember reading snipets that involved direct references to suppressing minority voters - called "caging". Basically challenging them and trying to intimidate them to prevent them from voting.

[understandinglife]

10. I remember the day I first saw those and I have my copy of the file...

....safely stored in case they 'disappeared.'

Peace.

[DesEtoiles]

14. Per the current note looks like they have been expanded

[Carolab]

11. Did anyone ever call/contact these folks in Nevada to ask if they voted?

http://2004.georgewbush.org/deadletteroffice/attachments/Douglas%20County%20Voter%20Fraud%20Master%20Spreadsheet.xls

[lonestarnot]

15. Had not had the opportunity to see this email box but had heard about

it. Thank you. They even EXPLOIT the blind!

[lonestarnot]

16. We be smok'n baby! Not to worry! Come'n round the mountain now!

[IndyPriest]

19. I think the case against Triad will be the key to

setting the political landscape on Jan. 6. If it's shown by then that Triad fucked around with the machines IN ANY WAY - you've PROVEN the kind of fraud that invalidates elections. In THAT context, the Republicans would be in a VERY tough spot: either expose themselves to the country as abettors of criminal fraud, and probably lose every election for the next 50 years, or hold their noses and vote in Kerry to save their political hides. That's why Conyers is going after Triad with a baseball bat.

[understandinglife]

21. We don't have to prove that Triad f*^%@#d around with the machines...

.....we know they did!! We've even got the dude on the video admitting he messed with devices that should NEVER HAVE BEEN TOUCHED!!! :wow:

These is just too easy; it's like once the 'tapes' were known to exist, the ball went downhill really fast.....hang on because this is way, way, way worse than 'Watergate.'

Peace.

[IndyPriest]

23. Yes, WE know, but the COUNTRY doesn't know - yet! :-)

[O.M.B.inOhio]

22. Recast Jan 6 objection: Repugs interfered / stalled investigation

therefore we (responsible senators) weren't able to dispel doubt of the election's validity. We sure wanted everything to go on schedule, but Mr. Blackwell's obstruction, certain OH counties' noncompliance with the law during recount, AP & others' refusal to give raw data, etc, etc means we couldn't prove votes were counted accurately, not to mention the additional expense to the taxpayers because of this non-cooperation. Heck we may have to re-vote (don't think it's right, Repugs? Then don't ask for it in Washington. We know you're so principled).

And while we have the attention of you outstanding journalists, let us read these letters from Mr. Conyers.

[New Earth]

25. oops

wrong thread :o

[zann725]

26. I really believe Kerry wouldn't've entered the 'action' now

if there wasn't a chance he could prevail. He's a very practical, methodical person.

Here's hoping we have AT LEAST one smoking guns in our legal holster!