Intriguing comment from AAR's Morning Sedition...

[regnaD kciN]

They were talking with one of the reporters on the "Kerry beat," who told them that the decision to concede was basically made election night (I guess sometime before Edwards came out and vowed to fight until every vote was counted :grr: ), and that the main item under debate from then on was "when" to do it.

He said that this decision was reached after it became clear to the Kerry campaign, around 11 P.M., that their operatives on the ground in Ohio had been giving them "bad information" on how they stood there. He also said that the higher-ups in the campaign were quite angry at the Ohio operatives for not getting the info right in the first place.

Now, not to read between the lines, but that explanation doesn't quite ring true. Was it just something like "Damn, our staffers got their info wrong. We're going to lose, so we might was well concede, but we should probably wait until tomorrow midday to do so."...? That seems weird, to say the least.

My hypothesis is that, at that point, they realized that the results weren't matching what their poll-watchers were reporting, to the extent that it became obvious that the vote-counting was being messed with. That's why Edwards came out to make his promise. The campaign then spent the rest of the night trying to figure out how to challenge the results of eVote machines with no paper trail, and finally concluded that there was no way of doing so.

In other words, it wasn't the provisional ballots that were at issue, but the BBV had so massaged the results that the former became irrelevant. That, and that the Kerry campaign knew the election was being stolen from them, but that they couldn't do anything.

[lapfog_1]

1. Bingo... n/t

[PretzelWarrior]

2. you're probably right. and Bush reminded his skull and bones mate

that he could hold him to account with damaging photos if he didn't concede right away and play nice.

LOL. I don't really believe that ...it just sounded funny and I'm sure someone will actually bring it up as a likely possibility any day now

[libbygurl]

3. Very sad, and Im still annoyed that Kerry conceded so quickly, but also

agree that they had to be realistic about the fouled-up situation as regards proving the vote counts were rigged.

But Edwards gave the better concession speech, in my opinion, especially those fighting words when he declared that the fight has just begun.

In '08, Edwards has my vote. As Malloy said last night, " Get rid of the machines!"
What's the point of voting if you can't be sure it'll be counted?

The ONION had a funny but all-too-true article about the futility of voting with this administration controlling everything election-wise.

[drunkdriver-in-chief]

16. What's this thing you have about proof?

You don't need proof to call for an investigation - just suspicions. Kerry should say there's something fishy here.

[mazzarro]

4. Well - wasn't Bev Harris harping on the danger long before this

election? And what did the democratic leadership do but wait until the election was almost on us before becoming lukewarmly involved?

[DUreader]

5. yes, many were warning. Dem leaders ignored us all.

why?

[sadiesworld]

7. Yes, why?

The dem failure to address this issue reeks of complicity.

[DUreader]

10. Complicity and/or infiltration

[SHRED]

6. Solution? END E-VOTING NOW!

While I am totally in favor of a paper trail I am confused about what it would do.

So you get a receipt. So what?
Well, the vote goes in and it could still get digitally changed, in route.
For instance:
The results come in and our candidate loses by a slim margin.
Who is and how are you gonna contest it? So in every close race we hand count the paper trail?
If that is the case then why don't we hand count ALL OUR VOTES and take a week or so to do it? Equal teams from all parties would be involved.

I think this instant gratification--T.V. culture mentality--is killing our country.
Why not take our time and have 3 days to vote and 2 weeks to hand count. WTF is wrong with that?
I DO NOT trust this E-voting bu*&sh*t what-so-ever!!!
http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2004/03/03_200.html

What is our hurry?

[FlaGranny]

11. The way I understand it is that

precincts would have to be chosen at random and hand counts done to make sure they matched the computer votes. It would not eliminate all fraud (human nature makes that impossible), but it would be more likely to catch any fraud. I don't think any system would ever be perfect.

[LisaL]

18. Yes, but then you could check it afterwords, and if you prove fraud-

well, maybe you could overturn the election or at least my sure whoever is responsible for fraud will pay.

[Mountainman]

8. Are they going to do anything about it now?

So do we go quietly into the night and take our licks? If we don't make a big show about a stolen election than all this debate about the direction the country should take is bull shit.

There has to be a national trial and we have to prove to the people beyond a reasonable doubt that the election was stolen.

There has to be people who can tell us the truth who participated in the steeling. They have to be tried publicly.

Or else shut the fuck up about it!

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Ok with what political capital

It will look as a sore looser... and will give them even more weapons

[robbedvoter]

9. Famous Kerry last words (2003):

I have no time for those crying in their teacups for stolen elections"


I remember posting frantically here: "what makes him think he's imune? He has the vaccine Gore hadn't?"

[Catherine Vincent]

12. ....

[AspenRose]

13. Cat girl! Is that REALLY from the UK?

Or was that altered?

Damn. truer words were never spoken

[Catherine Vincent]

14. Yes, I swiped it from the Mirror's website.

I've been trying to post this pic everytime I post.

[AspenRose]

15. That should be made into a poster

and sold via the DU or AAR website, or something!

They'd make a killing.

[SmokingJacket]

21. Look at the expression on that ugly mug!

Does THAT look like a guy who's won honestly and is happy and excited about serving the American people again??

Do he look victorious?

He looks scared out of his mind!!

WHY?

[archineas]

17. potential ohio fraud

wouldn't shock me.

i live in ohio and used a punchcard, and it's my understanding that only 3 rural counties in ohio used BBV. i don't know which ones tho.

i think the real kick in ohio was issue 1. i think that brought all the scary people out of the woodwork. it probably made fixing the end results earlier, and it wouldn't shock me if someone discovered, at some late date, whole precincts that had ballots go missing.

sometimes i hate living in ohio...

j

[LisaL]

19. It's just not true about only 3 rural counties using BBV.

I voted in Franklin county (Columbus) on one of those paperless electronic voting machines.
Franklin isn't the "rural" county.

[Tom Rinaldo]

20. How did your county compare to the exit polls in Ohio?

It would be very interesting to compare how the three punch card counties did compared to evoting counties, to match yours up with other rural counties in the same region that used the evoting machines. Your results should not differ much from evoting counties from the same region with the same general demographics, not if evoting was legit.

[BQueen]

22. Auglaize had BBV

I can check on some other rurals -- and Auglaize was listed on the electiononline.org site as being punchcard. I thought it WAS going to be punchcard from everything I had read.

They also did some precinct merging at my polling place. In addition to the six precincts that used to vote at this location, the BOE took three other precincts, merged them into two, and, from what I can tell, Kerry HQ was not informed of this -- However, this county just happened to be the one where the local party chair ENDORSED w and was forced to resign. We did not get an HQ until 2 weeks before the election, and Evan was great, but that's a Herculean task to wrangle all that info that quickly. (can't say where the breakdown was, but I'm betting from prior experience it was with the BOE, which was still listed at it's address of more than 11 months ago in every directory and it's own website, which also listed the old hours...)

One of the 'merged' precincts was designated a bellweather. I have no idea how redrawing the lines to include a larger area would effect the numbers on those reports, and I have to wonder if that was something missed on the assessment (pos OR neg)