Kerry's flip-flopping lawyer..........WTF?

[New Earth]

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[mousie]

1. yeah, what the heck was that??? n/t

[Straight Shooter]

2. Faye, please explain ... eom

[New Earth]

5. i can't

i am speechless and ready to cry

someone else please do

[Straight Shooter]

7. oh oh oh

*F*, I don't like this, Faye, if you're ready to cry.

[smartvoter]

3. I know. WTF?????? nt

[Straight Shooter]

4. Somebody PLEASE explain. I don't have television. Thanks. eom

[LiberalHeart]

9. Look at KO's newest blog. It says it all. N/T

[New Earth]

12. yes

[TexasChick]

38. OMG. Well, hell...but I do think it's weird that Blackwell is trying to

arrange it to where he can plead the fifth. (Sigh) Maybe Arnebeck is our only hope.

[Prodemsouth]

112. Arnebeck indicated today that Kerry was not aggressively pursing this

matter.

[mousie]

11. On MSNBC

They said that Kerry's lawyer said not to read more into this than exactly what they are saying, that there are a lot of conspiracy theorists out therre, that basically Bush won and this election is over! I really couldn't believe my ears.

[Gloria]

Yeah, what was that about....paraphrase....don't read anything

into some of what we've said. There are conspiracy theories....talk of fraud...but Bush-Cheney won the election.


Fineman is squaring the two different statements (before and this one) by saying that the Kerry people are saying there was not INTENT to commit fraud....mistakes were made.

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Fineman doesn't think there will be a Senate challenge.

[Straight Shooter]

14. Well, huh. Okay, hang on, Faye. It's not as bad as you might think.

Keep in mind the media circus if they were to allege any sort of criminal intent. All hell would break loose, and there would be a major pile-on.

I would say the same damn thing in Kerry's place, swear to God I would. I would never ever ever give them one damn thing to use against me.

They'll find the criminal intent as the wheels continue to turn.

Remember Bleever's sig line: The wheels of justice turn slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine.

edit: okay, refreshing page, going to read the blog now. If you hear a loud explosion emanating from the general direction of Oregon, that's me.

[New Earth]

20. it is as bad as i think

unless they are just covering up what they're doing to keep the spin down

[pacalo]

39. I'm thinking that they're playing it down.

Perhaps their ducks aren't quite in a row yet. Remember OldLeftyLawyer's advice about remaining patient. She also said not to expect the lawyers to lay out their hands just yet; it's going to take time.

[johnaries]

45. I keep hearing Yes' "Your Move" in the back of my mind......

"Move me on to any black square,
Use me any time you want.
Bring home Instant Karma to me,
initial it: With Loving Care"

[lonestarnot]

63. Kerry does not have to do anything but what he is doing right now.

[Blue_In_AK]

91. Agreed.

We were a bit shocked, too, but I think they're playing this down until the evidence is locked in through depositions and discovery. Everyone just needs to calm down.

[MissBrooks]

42. It's as bad as you think.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MissBrooks]

92. Just a realist.

[Karenca]

101. Not true...

Read Will's posts

[Straight Shooter]

54. fraud/conspiracy will be shown with examination of machines and discovery

The Kerry-Edwards campaign has found no conspiracy and no fraud in Ohio, though there have been many irregularities that cry out to be fixed for future elections. Senator Kerry and we in Ohio intend to fix them. When all of the problems in Ohio are added together, however bad they are, they do not add up to a victory for Kerry-Edwards.

This is ridiculous. Unless they are blessed with crystal-ball third eyes, they cannot unequivocally state there was no fraud or conspiracy. The machines must be examined, and those involved in the election process in Ohio must be examined (discovery depositions) under oath.

Please remember, Kerry is still "speaking" through his attorney, his mouthpiece. Now, with my foot tapping impatiently, I want to hear what he has to say.

I don't appreciate K.O.'s snarkiness: The Kerry campaign spent much of 2004 being accused by its critics of trying to be all things to all people. It seems poised to continue to wear the bull's-eye well into the New Year.

Happy bow-hunting, Keef :eyes:

[karlrschneider]

26. You may be right, but in that case, why say ANYTHING?

This whole thing is so FUBAR, it's beyond any comprehension.
:grr:

[bunny planet]

84. I feel so dumb for asking this, but what is FUBAR? This is the first

online group I have ever joined so I kind of need a glossary.
:eyes:

[MissBrooks]

113. FUBAR...

F*cked up beyond all recognition

or

F*cked up beyond all repair...

Old military term.

[me b zola]

59. WTF

Doesn't that statement make it easy for the court to say that if you do not believe there is a chance the outcome to change, then there is no reason for us to hear this case??? I'm kinda of paraphrasing the ruling that the court handed down that prompted the Kerry/Edwards team to join the suit. Talk about disenfranchised!!!! I'm furious. If the case gets thrown out because of these statements my head will explode.

[smartvoter]

6. He said that there was no criminal activity/deliberate fraud. nt

[johnaries]

8. Are you talking about KO? I don't get MSNBC. Whats up?

or is it something else?

[LiberalHeart]

10. Yes, KO N/T

[mousie]

27. Is KO

supposed to be on our side? ... 'cause I don't always get that feeling from some of his comments.

[Clark2008]

41. KO is just reporting what Kerry's lawyers are saying

This isn't about Keith - who is STILL the only MSM keeping this story alive. It's about Kerry's attorneys who are either A.) Too scared to admit the BFEE has criminal intent lest he wears cement shoes or B.) Very cunning and don't want to draw attention to themselves anymore than necessary until they get the straight dope.

Either way, KO isn't speculating and he shouldn't speculate.

It's OK.

Just keep spreading the info and watch that 20 percent grow...

[merh]

62. Maybe they are down playing their action in the hopes that the

witnesses, like the tech, don't have horrible accidents (or can't be bought off) before they can be deposed. :shrug:

[Clark2008]

66. Like I said...

cunning in keeping it under wraps until they have all the info they need...

(Personally, I'm not a Pollyanna and I think it's because they're scared of the BFEE, but that's just me. I hope to be proven wrong.)

[merh]

79. I think it is fear of what they are capable of doing and a desire

to ensnarl them in a net they can't get out of. Remember, who is John Kerry married to. The widow of John Heinz, a repug senator that was involved in the BCCI investigation and was a considered a moderate repug and that was known as the peace maker between the parties. The senator that died in a plane crash. BFEE and plane crashes.

[bunny planet]

86. oh yeah, I forgot about that angle. You have something there. There have

been many such 'accidents' haven't there.:scared:

[bunny planet]

81. especially tonight. I don't think I'll be posting any floaty hearts for KO

tonight (sigh, it was nice while it lasted). He is still the only person in MSM who has touched this story with the proverbial 10 ft. pole but he has always approached it with a healthy dose of skepticism, or at least the appearance of skepticism. I think he would have been shut down and 'encouraged' not to broadcast any more about it if he appeared to give the story too much credibility. Tonight he actually seemed miffed at K/E lawyer's contradictions.

That said, Kerry's lawyer's conflicting statements are annoying at best, devastating at worst. I can understand why they might not want to let on that they expect to find anything and why they might want to throw the flying monkeys off the scent but this statement goes too far. I can't understand mentioning 'conspiracy theorists' at this point, when we've worked so hard to be taken seriously and it is quite clear (to us at least) that we are anything but tinfoil hatters.

The only explanation I can think of is that the K/E camp are aware that most of the American public knows nothing about this electile dysfunction story that we have been cognizant of for 6 weeks now. The public is not outraged because they have literally not been paying attention. I just went through the holiday season with Democratic friends and family and not a single one wanted to hear or had heard anything about this election being fraudulent. It simply is not like 2000, where it was all everyone and anyone was talking about. Maybe K/E are still hoping to find evidence and don't want to give * crime family anything to sink their teeth into. If they discredit our grass roots movement publicly, while working to find proof to give it legitimacy and they actually find that proof, all will be forgiven.

It doesn't make sense for them to join the efforts of the Glibs and to have moved more succinctly into this fraud investigation unless they are serious about it. I'm just going to try and have faith in what they are doing, there's only eight days left to make a move regardless.

About the challenge to the election in Congress on January 6th, I think it is happening. We can't let up on making it happen.

BTW, Howard Fineman is a putz.

[Blue_In_AK]

96. Fineman seemed kind of twitchy tonight, I thought. n/t

[bunny planet]

107. He's always twitchy, being irrelevant makes him anxious.

[peacetalksforall]

109. Few want to hear this...KO has been made into some kind of hero...

people are ignoring that he is an employee - he does not have control over his show. He has a mortgage. He has a huge heirarchy over him - mucho directors who report up and up and continuing up to GE who gets along quite nicely with the right wing:

These people over him:

...take orders from and give advice to and collaborate with the right wing white house and cabal.

...manipulate the news for the right wing.

...only allow hosts and guests who say certain things that are finely directed and contained - even when they are sharp-tongued like Sharpton who has to behave a certain way in order to get invited back. At the same time - any representative of the consortium of Townhall, Heritage Foundatation, or PNAC associated foundations and institutions can just call up and invite themselves to deliver or adjust the spin just so. Dem guests are only there to have the right wing talk over them, sneer at them, poke ridicule at them.

Think $ - he is getting a following - many DUers are contributing to the advertising $$$ that MSNBC can pitch to other potential advertisers base on KO's new ratings from his foray into the subject. They may also be playing KO as he does seem sincere in his sarcasm.

"On our side"? Don't be gullible.

They are not on our side. If you've been observing MSNBC for long you'll notice that the only thing they to less than Fox is cover fewer California car chases.

[Prodemsouth]

13. Please explain- If you got your hopes up on anything related to Kerry

challenging the election, sorry- but you should have known better by now. Kerry does not want to be President at this time. period! The shit is going to hit the fan regardless of who is in there, Kerry knows this (or found it out during the course of the campaign) and decided no thank you, I don't want it after all.
On Edit: oh yeah, What about that no Bush "bashing" at the convention - worked well didn't it.

[LittleClarkie]

65. He wanted to be president right up until it was stolen from him

Unless we have a stronger case, it's not going to be unstolen either.

He did want the job. He did want to fix it. You could tell by the way he spoke that he thought he could do it. "Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean it can't be done," he told Bush.

If you have something to base your assessment on, like an article you read or something like that, please show it. Otherwise you appear to be speculating on the man's actions based on bias and little else.

But he will not try to flip the election if it would hurt the country.

And Kerry's lawyer is saying what Kerry's spokespeople have been saying all along. "Nothing to see, not trying to flip the election, move along, these are not the droids you're looking for."

Eh, but then they still filed in court today, so they're obviously working toward something, or else it would all be a waste of time.

[Prodemsouth]

80. Are you forgetting his actions and the actions of his campaign during the

swift boat ads. They didn't fight back. He went along with a debate rule that the candidates could not ask each other questions. Windsurfing, That and a host of other campaign behaviors point to someone who was not considering really winning the election. I wanted Kerry to win. He is one that did not want to win- take it up with him!

[LittleClarkie]

90. Horsehockey

Swiftboat ads = bad advice. They thought it would go away. If they turned to face it, they would no longer be talking about the issues and would be playing Bush's game, defending themselves instead of presenting their case.

They did turn to fight back, but it was already two weeks into the attacks, and they were firmly entrenched in people's minds.

Bad strategy doesn't mean Kerry didn't want to win.

He went along with the debate rule, yes. But they got all three debates. And even with that one hand tied behind he back, he kicked Bush all over the damn stage. It was a high point in the campaign, not a low point. We got volunteers up the kazoo from that damn debate.

Windsurfing = non-issue. Hell man, what do you do to unwind? Kerry windsurfs and snowboards. He used windsurfing to sharpen himself for the debates, said people who knew what was going on at that point in the campaign. I live in Wisconsin. We windsurf. We snowboard. We drink green tea. The "elitist" stereotype really, really gets on my nerves, esp. as an RNC talking point being spouted by my own side. Gromph.

You're still not documenting how you know Kerry's mind and emotions. My only proof into his emotions was his concession speech. He doesn't eke out that kind of emotion at the flick of a switch. He's not an emotional person. The fact that he was getting quite emotional is significant therefore. He wanted to win. He was very upset.

I have nothing to take up with him.

[Prodemsouth]

110. What was that he said: there are no losers in American elections (huh)

and forge a coalition with Bush. Sorry, don't have the exact quotes but they are very close to what he said. That speech showed me he is not living in my USA. His concession speech actually cemented in my mind that he was not serious about winning the election. Again the "blunders" show that he was not a serious candidate. You are saying the election was stolen- if it was stolen, Kerry is hurting the country for not speaking out. As to the Eastern establishment elitist thing: I want to win perhaps that is at the heart of our differences. Defeatist elitist don't win ask: Stevenson, Mondale, Humphrey, or Dukakis. Before you try to mix Kennedy with these guys let me remind you, Looks and charisma carry help..it was the beginning of television. Plus, to be honest accusations of voter fraud in a very very close election.

[LittleClarkie]

114. Pretty words, the ones you say at a concession

It took two weeks after asking Bush to unify the country before Kerry went "Nope, not happening" and we got the "man in exile" video.

Blunders are just blunders. If I make a mistake while trying to get what I want, that doesn't mean I didn't want it. It means I made a mistake.

I say it looks to have been stolen. I could be wrong, but at the moment I'm basing my opinion on the exit polls. But you can't go to court on exit polls apparently. Not here, anyway. Maybe in the Ukraine. Nevertheless, Kerry would hurt the country and himself if he came raging out with that accusation without real proof. Feeling it is one thing, proving it another.

As for your list of candidates: didn't win doesn't equal didn't wanna win. And of those, if I looked them up, who came closest. Kerry, I believe. Damn it felt like a winner.

I'm sorry if you saw something different in the concession, but I saw the normal, gracious language of concession mixed with a certain level of defiance mixed with those two breaks in his voice that told me he was really, really upset.

This line of thought appears revisionist to me. The man had wanted to be president almost all his life. He spent over two years campaigning. He pinballed his way all over the battleground states (I know, I was in one of them.) He stopped and listened to people and told them he'd help them. (I know, I watched him.)

And another thing, where does the recount effort fit into all of this? What is his lawyer doing in Ohio if Kerry doesn't give a shit about the people who voted for him. He may not be able to flip the election, but he will do exactly what he said he would, which is fight to make sure all votes are counted properly and that election reform takes place.

[Prodemsouth]

116. Thanks for being civil, Littleclarkie, I know this is very emotional for

many of us. I am disappointed in Kerry, I don't hate him. You got to love to campaign to win the Presidency. Bush is not in love with campaigning, but he has friends that are damn good at it (and that is a understatement). Karl Rove, is the best at this business that I think we will see in our life times. The only one we got on our side who might be able to give him a run for his money is Clinton himself. I don't believe Kerry Liked campaigning. I don't think he spent hours thinking of a effective strategy. The problem was Karl Rove does- He goes to bed at night, winning is on his mind, His conversations at lunch are about how to win. When he takes a shit even if it hurts he is thinking about winning. We have nothing like that on our side. Before the debates when Kerry was really sliding, Charles Rangle was on Bill Mahr's show and said he thought the Kerry campaign did not consider how ruthless Karl Rove would be. That is like saying you didn't consider Vick when playing the Atlanta Falcons. I am ripping off Mahr, he used a similar sports analogy- but I forgot who, oh yeah it was summer and he said Bonds. Now what do we all know about Bonds now. :)

[LittleClarkie]

117. Ah yes

I will definitely agree that Kerry didn't enjoy campaigning. Well, not until the last month or two. Apparently that is a pattern with him. He appears to be kind of shy and reserved as politicians go.

I will agree they got gamed. I think they tried to run a decent campaign. But toward the end when they realized what was happening, perhaps too late, they did at Clinton's men and things improved. It appeared to me that, rather than discounting the big players (in my neck of the woods, it would be discounting Brett Favre ;-) ) they were the rookies playing against a seasoned team. Continuing the sports analogy, I'm told that sometimes the veteran players have to motivate the rookies in a game because they don't quite get what winning is supposed to look like and the level of motivation it takes.

I'd like to think, if Kerry got the chance again, that he'd know what winning would look like and what it takes. And damn it, if I hear again that anyone on his campaign was shouting "Restrain the candidate" like Cahill and Shrum were doing, I'm going to plotz! It sounds like Kerry was ready to come out swinging more than once, but they kept pinning his arms back saying that whatever it was would pass. They were afraid he's appear bitter the way he had on "Good Morning, America" during the primaries (I didn't see that. I would have liked to. I happen to like my Kerrys all fired up.)

I hope our next candidate, no matter who it turns out to be, picks a winning team to help them. A team that has won elections, not one that has lost them. I don't care who they're trying to be loyal to, picking a team who knows what winning looks like and how to get there is key. Maybe Carville. Does Carville crap politically? ;-)

[Prodemsouth]

120. What about those Jax Jaguars

;-) Have a good night. Good excahnge of ideas. Take care!

[Dover]

15. Anybody have a link? I'm lost here..........

.

[beachgrl60]

16. all about

nothing or next time??

[Misskittycat]

17. I'm really stunned

by this statement. KO and Howard Fineman are trying to explain it, but, according to them, the K-E campaign is saying there was "no conspiracy" and "no fraud" -- just a lot of irregularities. That doesn't satisfy me at all.

[karlrschneider]

18. Fineman ridiculously spinning the flip flop.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[New Earth]

19. dude wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

THEY JUST FILED A LAWSUIT TODAY ASKING TO HAVE ALL 'EVIDENCE' SECURED IN OHIO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this doensn't even make sense.

[Doctor O]

87. They did not file a lawsuit, they only filed a motion in support

of the Green motion. This is not a lawsuit.

[Pithy Cherub]

21. If that statement was sanctioned by Kerry,

then he has no concept of the magnitude of what happened and that is definitely not a good thing - today or tomorrow for his future.

[AzDar]

22. Flame away... I am so fu**ing disgusted with the Kerry campaign...

they need to grow some.

[Prodemsouth]

74. The statement you made - "Flame away.. they need to grow some."

kind of apologizing in advance for what ACTUALLY needs to be said- shows how political correctness has fucked up the left in America. This is why we are always back here crying every end of the day. That is the reason and putting our trust yet again in another defeatist elitist Eastern Establishment "liberal" and foolishly expecting a different result this time around.

[Patsy Stone]

23. No different

Than everyone and their grandmother saying all along, "We don't think this will change the outcome of the election."

What's he gonna say? To KO? "I am calling you out W!?" "J'accuse!"

It's OK (making a soothing motion), let's wait a day and see? :)

[Goldeneye]

36. If Kerry's seen what we've seen

and what John Conyers, Jesse Jackson, Arnebeck, Freeman, etc. have seen, he knows there was fraud. He is smart and he knows the law. Lets just lay off and wait.

Also, if anyone can tell me why they would file this suit if they didn't think there was something flawed with the election, I would love to hear it.

[Patsy Stone]

49. I said that

in the other thread. They are still legally involved. If there's something there, they will find it. Watergate took years.

There was also another instance (and I can't recall if it was this guy or not) who first said they would "join" the lawsuit and then it changed to "participate" in the lawsuit? They did, btw, indeed end up "joining" that lawsuit.

Until then, the fact that changes have greatly increased that Congressional Dems may stand up and protest * is great news.

[me b zola]

73. 33% chance

Said Maxine Waters will probably be the only congressperson, Rep. Conyers a maybe. What's that about...maybe Rep. Conyers?
I'm thoroughly confused.

[Patsy Stone]

77. Who

said that, Fineman? Or KO? If it was Fineman, he also said the challenge "Ain't gonna happen." The last time he was on. He works for Newsweek and said he didn't know there was a Kerry video and he had to ask a staff member to show it to him after hearing about it. That's right, the Chief Politcal Correspondent for f'n NEWSWEEK didn't know there was a video. Forget him, please.

If it was KO, then I'm sure he's not privy to everthing conversation going on behind every door in the House. Maybe he is, but I doubt it.

[me b zola]

118. It was Fineman

I just feel like democracy itself is in a tail-spin.
Thanks for the shaking me by the shoulders...get a grip!
When things begin to feel hopeless, sometimes I need this.;-)

[bunny planet]

95. I'm with you Patsy.

[sepia_steel]

24. Well that's fucking disgusting.

I'm predicting the Democrats just finally lost many loyal constituents for good. Me being possibly one of them. I'm still waiting to see what exactly happens.

[AmerDem]

25. calling it conspiracy theories

and if 1 Senator does sign on to contest it will be more to slow shrub's momentum and his agenda. Let's face it we've been had by Kerry. The man is as weak as they come.

We can't let up. We need the election system overhauled if we are to have any chance of democracy to continue. This just makes things much harder. *sigh*

[mousie]

43. I really, really like Kerry...

but I must say, after hearing this, even I am rather disappointed... I just don't get it. This sure doesn't seem to match with the man he seemed to be when we last saw him! Of course it would help if we saw him again at this point... say something, Kerry!! I really can't believe what I've just heard, I just can't. How could they possibly say there was "no fraud"!! Well, I will wait and hope that was some kind of mistake or something... but I am so disappointed right now a part of me wants to give up on all this... but then again, we can't. Our democracy is at stake and we cannot accept stolen elections!!

[Chimpanzee]

44. He's a weak as his chin (before botox)

I think I'm ready to start the civil war. This is fUCKing RiDICulOUS!

[AmerDem]

55. I'll be the first

to sign on with ya, Revolution may be the only option.. WTF is going on behind these closed doors of Washington? All we can do is wait and see how this plays out by Jan. 6th and take it from there.

[caligirl]

83. Was wondering how long it would take to see the obvious, the repugs

should be forced to feel our pain.

[PinkPantherChick]

88. They did feel our pain, before Nov 2 when they knew that they were going

to lose without major fraud. Nixon paid. They will pay.:evilfrown:

[caligirl]

94. I hold on to that hope. n/t

[MissBrooks]

115. You don't botox a chin...

You need to watch more of those makeover shows.

Botox is for lines and wrinkles - a chin implant would be used to emphasize the chin.

[Chimpanzee]

123. I refuse to watch those shows!

[seito]

28. Keiths Blog

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/

[politicasista]

29. It's over isn't it.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oregonjen]

58. I have been staying out of this but....

I think politicasista forgot this :cry:

:evilgrin:

[troubleinwinter]

72. hhahahahah!

:toast:

[troubleinwinter]

71. You forgot your favorite crying eyes smiley.

It's over. You can leave now.

[Name removed]

121. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[elizm]

30. No kidding...WTF

They will file today in the courts in order to be able to gather EVIDENCE...and yet say to ONLY Keith Olbermann, obviously, that there was no fraud. If they keep this up they are going to lose their credibility with the only ones who BELIEVE them!!!!

[mod mom]

31. What do they expect: 19% think unfair election...

no one is covering it. Maybe if MSM would mention it, more people would believe.

[ZRB]

51. 19% is BIG!

That's about 24 million voters, more than the population of Australia, for instance.





Don't give up people!

[noclonyofthechimp]

33. Fay, I just posted another thread just as shocked. I have dial up

so I didn't see yours. What the hell is going on?

[SueZhope]

34. words from the blog for any one who missed that

"I would caution the media not to read more into what the Kerry-Edwards campaign has said," Mr. Hoffheimer advised us by e-mail, "than what you hear in the plain meaning of our comments. There are many conspiracy theorists opining these days. There are many allegations of fraud. But this presidential election is over. The Bush-Cheney ticket has won. The Kerry-Edwards campaign has found no conspiracy and no fraud in Ohio, though there have been many irregularities that cry out to be fixed for future elections. Senator Kerry and we in Ohio intend to fix them. When all of the problems in Ohio are added together, however bad they are, they do not add up to a victory for Kerry-Edwards. Senator Kerry's fully-informed and extremely careful assessment the day after the election and before he conceded remains accurate today, notwithstanding all the details we have since learned."

[Vektor]

35. I need to just tune out for a while...

...as Shrub would say, we are getting "mixed messages."
Sorry to quote * , but seriously. WTF? They say things are all well and Kosher, but they are filing all these motions anyway? They say that there were all sorts of irregularities in OH, but the victory is clear? There's no evidence of wrongdoing, but we'd better subpoena these guys anyway?

I'm kind of tired of being jerked around by these guys who can't make up their minds about where the hell they are coming from.

[pleiku52cab]

37. I think that the lawyer

went further than Kerry wanted him to go in his Thursday statements. This new statement is a course correction. Too damn wishy-washy for me. Think the lawyer backpedaled too far this time.

[VTGold]

40. We have to try to stay off of this roller coaster - nothing is as it would

...seem to appear - it hasn't been since this crazy evil bunch took (and I do mean 'took') office.

We have to trust our gut instincts - we have no choice really.

Something is going on - I think we can all feel that.

Try to trust in it.

Even if we're wrong - we're better off kidding ourselves :)

But we're not wrong - we all know we're not wrong.

[bunny planet]

104. I've been trusting in it all along VTG but I'll tell you, this K/E

lawyer's most recent statement is a serious downer. Counterproductive too it would seem. Talk about grass rootus interruptus.
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

[Firespirit]

46. Not the same lawyer

The remarks are Hoffheimer's, the first lawyer. The motion was filed by McTigue, the new lawyer. It isn't the same person.

And it doesn't jibe with Will Pitt's first TO article, apparently gleaned from insider info:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/122404Y.shtml

His previous stance on the matter was based simply on his desire to defend the right to have a recount in the first place. The evidence of election tampering in Ohio, specifically surrounding Triad, has motivated him to actively join the fight. The Democratic Party is also quietly putting financial resources into the Ohio recount effort.

Not to mention:

Perhaps the most significant aspect of all this, from the activist point of view, has been the effectiveness of the telephone calls and letters to Kerry. The activist push to get him involved had a significant effect on his decision to enter this effort.

I trust Will's reporting and sources. But I will eat these words if Kerry himself backs up Hoffheimer's statements over the others.

And as for today's blog... not going there. Not worth any more words. And I hate to write that about KO, but there you go.

[New Earth]

67. despite my 'how many kerry/bush jan 6th threads do we need poll'

ccould you post this as a new topic? i think you are making a lot of sense and some people may be relieved. PLEASE!

[Firespirit]

76. OK. /nt

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KaryninMiami]

47. So now what? Where do we go with this now?

I feel sick. Here are the words from the attorney's statement for those who did not hear it or read it yet:

"I would caution the media not to read more into what the Kerry-Edwards campaign has said," Mr. Hoffheimer advised us by e-mail, "than what you hear in the plain meaning of our comments. There are many conspiracy theorists opining these days. There are many allegations of fraud. But this presidential election is over. The Bush-Cheney ticket has won. The Kerry-Edwards campaign has found no conspiracy and no fraud in Ohio, though there have been many irregularities that cry out to be fixed for future elections. Senator Kerry and we in Ohio intend to fix them. When all of the problems in Ohio are added together, however bad they are, they do not add up to a victory for Kerry-Edwards. Senator Kerry's fully-informed and extremely careful assessment the day after the election and before he conceded remains accurate today, notwithstanding all the details we have since learned."

[impeachthescoundrel]

48. There is one thing you must understand

This is only the beginning of this scandal. I won't say Watergate started the same way, because I will not be believed by most of us.

But it is.

Gonna go do the happy dance now.

[PinkPantherChick]

93. EXACTLY, YES IT DID.

I keep saying it, I was there in the 60's and my dad explained everything to me day in and day out regarding Watergate and Nixon's fuck up. IT WILL HAPPEN. Try a little patience and keep your collective noses to the grind stone!

[Blue_In_AK]

103. Everybody needs to remember Watergate.

This may take some time. It would be nice to see Kerry inaugurated on January 20th, but it might be even more satisfying to see GWB stewed in his own juices and driven out of office in humiliation within a few months when he's lost even Republican support. Patience, people. This is far from over.

[mdb]

50. So ...

The Kerry/Edwards campaign is preserving election material in Ohio and having a deposition taken of Triad reps because there is no fraud?

[seito]

56. Look at what they are doing...

Don't worry so much about what they are saying. What they say DOES NOT MATTER.

Why would they have filed to preserve evidence if they didn't think there was anything wrong?

[mdb]

61. Through this piece, I was waiting for KO to mention JK's motion filed

today. Not a single word.

[lonestarnot]

68. No and that's why people should not let peoples' comments like KO and B.

upset their applecart. We are in good shape. This is definitely taking a turn in front of justice.

[jdog]

52. Ok,

KO is NOT the end-all and be-all of this election fraud situation.

Kerry's "spokesman" needs to pull his head out of his ass.

What is actually taking place IS MORE IMPORTANT than the spin, or the bullshit report, or Fineman, or KO. (Although I have to wonder about KO speculating on the future about who will object to the electoral college stuff).

ANYWAY, this is bigger than any of them, or any one of us. We cannot let this get us down. What Kerry did today contradicts what his dufus lawyer (?) said. Why would he say that? I don't know.

DOESN'T CHANGE A THING.

[PinkPantherChick]

98. Thank you!! that is true! Nixon fell like a house of cards

when he fell--at last. The dust will not settle quickly after it happens and we need to stop thinking like those morons are above the law. They are two bit political thugs and crooks and the new Watergate happened with a two bit burgulary--vote theft. Give it time.

[crispini]

53. THIS IS NOT ABOUT OVERTURNING THIS ELECTION.

People have been saying this for DAYS on here and no one would listen and calm down.

NOW ARE YOU LISTENING?

[Generator]

70. Of course and the reason for that

IS because it can't be done. THEY have too much power. But damn it better not be over...the fight for Democracy is going to be a long haul. I just wish I knew what Kerry and high level Dems really believed. I get that it would cost too much for them to fight it now(and there isn't enough time) but what are they really going to do to bring these thugs down?

And do they get there will be no more wins for Dems in the future until this is fixed? Do they get it at all? I'm still not sure.

[crispini]

78. I don't know if "they" meaning our Democratic leadership get it,

but by God, WE get it. What we need to do next is nag, nag, nag them for the reforms we want. At every level.

[PinkPantherChick]

100. LET THE NAGGING BEGIN AND THE BEST MAN WIN.

[lonestarnot]

57. Faye why are you putting all your eggs in the KO basket?

[tandem5]

64. We are a group of strong people...

We need to stop appointing these "shining hope" leaders! Let's just let the questions, answers, and facts lead us.

[lonestarnot]

69. Precisely.

[ClassWarrior]

75. But don't forget...

NGU.

[brindis_desala]

82. This is bigger than getting Kerry in the WH

It's about having a real democracy. You need to parse words and think like a lawyer. "The Kerry-Edwards campaign has found no conspiracy and no fraud in Ohio," That statement changes nothing. Why assume we are the conspiracy theorists he was referring to? Cool it- Jesse's on the case. The ducks are getting set up nicely.

[caligirl]

85. No lawyer worth his salt would say he had proof if it wasn't the smoking

gun. Keeping the press and the current idiot in chief out of the way for now is a big asset in getting to the bottom of this. Its more like a chess match from a distant perspective. Don't get the guy with his finger on the controls pissed enough to do what the swift boat liars club did.

[brindis_desala]

89. exactly

[PinkPantherChick]

106. Yes, that is exactly the point

YOU GOT IT RIGHT Keep the morons in front of us so we can watch everything they do and make sure it all goes on the record. Crooks HATE being on the record.

[PinkPantherChick]

102. K/O didn't "find" anything but that doesn't mean NOBODY did!

Yes, think like a lawyer and fight like they do--filthy and down in the dirt ugly. We are all going to get bloody noses before this is over but the only thing that matters in a shit slinging contest is how much gets STUCK not how much you fling.

[Niche]

97. Okay, flipped out stepped away came back, listen...

no one's going to tell me that NOTHING went down. CAGING LISTS, # VOTING MACHINES in DEM precints, POLL PEOPLE PUSHING FOR PROVISIONALS, VOTING MACHINE MAKERS BACKING *, BLACKWELL'S BEHAVIOR, SPROUL & ASSOCIATES!, NUMBERS FLIPPING! IT'S ALL THERE! ETC., ETC... ETfingcetera... Don't go crazy... Keith has been plugging away at this but he's got his moments of wondering WTF! You guys are saying that Conyers is full of it? That Jesse Jackson is full of it? Come on. Please NPR has gone on about it "...it's the tip of the iceberg..." One night and one statement does not end the TRUTH of this election.

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Imagevision]

99. GET A GRIP! -- Kerry only needs judge to approve expedition->

The Kerry-Edwards campaign has found no conspiracy and no fraud in Ohio, though there have been many irregularities that cry out to be fixed for future elections. Senator Kerry and we in Ohio intend to fix them. When all of the problems in Ohio are added together, however bad they are, they do not add up to a victory for Kerry-Edwards.

All we need is a senator to step forward Jan 6th. -- Allow sworn affidavits to be taken -- impound all necessary equipment --THIS!, is what we need to get in motion and we need it now!!!

AS of todays date? --we really have nothing but a lot of speculation off the "record" {some on the record}.

Jan 6th will say it all.

[WilliamPitt]

105. EVERYONE READ THIS POST OR I WILL DESTROY YOU

Not really, but still:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=200711&mesg_id=200711

[New Earth]

111. i did read it

thank you for clarifying it all :)

[wlubin]

108. I believe the lawyer's tactics was to shut up cry baby shrub.

He wanted shrub not to worry cause all of this legal stuff is all meaningless cause there was no conspiracy and everything is ok so go back to your crib, no need to get all cranky about it. But in reality crap is goin down. That is what I think it all means. Kerry/Edwards is just trying to keep under the radar.

[femme.democratique]

119. I'll believe it when I hear it from Kerry's mouth. eom