? Will Pitt (or anyone that has any idea) - Kerry Lawyer Files/Ohio - Is

[Karenca]

DU Going To Be The Onlygroup that is aware of this VERY important event?

Is any other MSM outlet going to report this other than KO?

IF A TREE FALLS IN A FOREST, AND NOONE IS AROUND, DOES IT MAKE A SOUND?





(edited topic type)

[onebox30]

1. Alot of us are trying to save our strength

to fight the winnable battles

[ClassWarrior]

4. What does THAT mean?

<LOL>

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

2. Will's very talented, but I doubt he's psychic...

NGU.

[lonestarnot]

3. Why the hell you blaming DU for failure to report? Recheck the boards!

Get out on your rooftop with your megaphone if you are so concerned!

[Karenca]

6. Where in my post did you find any evidence that I blamed DU

for the failure to report?

[lonestarnot]

12. It just has the tone of blame on a quick read. Sorry didn't mean to

offend you. MSM has been extolling this problem all throughout this process and found it peculiar that you should be wondering about it now.

[dzika]

5. The MSM will pick it up.

It takes a little time... I can tell you that Will's article is making the rounds.

It will happen.

[Karenca]

7. Thanks, I've been doing Google searches, but I only found

one article on this.
I've waited this long....I'll try to be more patient.

[jswordy]

11. Greetings from the MSM!!!

There has been nothing on my raw wire service feeds about Kerry and Ohio. It is strictly a Net story only, and even the main Net news search engines have been quiet. I think Kerry wants it this way, low key.

Given the party's penchant of late to avoid conflict and controversy, I would doubt highly that anything else will come of this minimal effort, which was as far as I have been able to glean, undertaken simply to lend legal legitimacy in Ohio to the vote challenges by the Greens and Libertarians.

In Ohio, you must show irreparable harm (which the Greens and Libertarians did) AND that the recount has to have the potential to affect the outcome. Minus a co-filing by Kerry, the Greens and Libertarians could not proceed with the recount, on that latter basis.

So without comment, his attorneys filed so it could proceed. I would be cautious about reading more into it than that at this stage.

Unfortunately, I don't at present see anything that would prevent a DUHbya inauguration. And that's why I am not surprised my raw wire service copy has no mention of it. Until there is an angle to hang a lead sentence on, the MSM will be mum. But I'll keep watching.

[merh]

15. Welcome jswordy - let the litigation continue,

let the discovery begin and hopefully there will be some angle that you can hang a lead sentence on.

Patience is a virtue!

Welcome to DU & enjoy the roller coaster ride. There are lots of bellie buttons here (opinions are like bellie buttons, most of us have one!)

:hi:

[ClassWarrior]

23. Please call it what it is: The Corporate Media.

MSM is an expression that started at Free Republic. Why do we so easily succumb to their frames?? Let's start making our own. (And I am NOT calling anyone a freeper - just noting where the expression began.)

NGU.

[elizm]

24. Pick any one of these...

To hang a lead on!!

Tue Dec 28 2004


Departments
Election 2004

Ohio GOP election officials ducking subpoenas as Kerry enters stolen vote fray
by Bob Fitrakis, Steve Rosenfeld and Harvey Wasserman
December 28, 2004

COLUMBUS -- Ohio Republican Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell refused to appear at a deposition on Monday, December 27. The deposition was part of an election challenge lawsuit filed at the Ohio Supreme Court. Meanwhile John Kerry is reported to have filed a federal legal action aimed at preserving crucial recount evidence, which has been under GOP assault throughout the state.

Richard Conglianese, Ohio Assistant Attorney General, is seeking a court order to protect Blackwell from testifying under oath about how the election was run. Blackwell, who administered Ohio's November 2 balloting, served as co-chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign.

James R. Dicks, Miami County Assistant Prosecuting Attorney, filed a motion to block a subpoena in his county while Conglianese filed to block subpoenas in ten key Ohio counties.

President George Bush, Vice-President Richard Cheney and White House Political Advisor Karl Rove received notice that they will be deposed Tuesday and Wednesday, December 28 and 29. The trio’s Ohio attorney, Kurt Tunnell, so far claims his clients have not been properly served. Under Ohio law, the Republican-dominated Ohio Supreme Court is responsible for serving the three with subpoenas.

Meanwhile, the Election Protection legal team has collected new statements under oath describing more voting and vote-counting problems on November 2.

Voters in Trumbull County have testified that on Election Day they received punch-card ballots where holes were already punched for Bush. Meanwhile, a notarized affidavit signed by Angela Greene, who voted at Whitehall Yearling High School in central Ohio's Franklin County, stated that one of the malfunctioning electronic voting machines at her polling place was delivered without a cartridge – meaning votes cast might have gone uncounted.

In Miami County, Blackwell certified a 98.6% turnout in the Concord Southwest precinct, comprised of 520 votes for Bush and 157 for Kerry. This statistically improbable turnout has all but 10 of the 689 registered voters casting their ballots on Election Day. A preliminary canvas by The Free Press of less than half the precinct found 25 registered voters admitting they had not voted, meaning the official tally was almost certainly fraudulent.

The nearby Concord South precinct certified a 94.27% voter turnout, with 468 alleged votes for Bush versus 182 for Kerry. Miami County is included in the election challenge since it somehow reported nearly 19,000 additional votes after 100% of the precincts had reported on Election Day.

In Madison County, where public records requests were filed to obtain voting records, the voting results provided by the Madison County Board of Elections came directly from a private company, Triad Governmental Systems, Inc. An email dated November 29, 2004 from Brandon Sandlin of Triad reads as follows: “Hello to all in Madison County! Attached you will find the cumulative report (oh49unov.pdf) with over and under votes reported as well as the official abstract (oh49abs.pdf). These reports may be printed for your records and then mailed to the state along with your other certification reports.” Coming from a private corporation, Triad's letter underscores the barriers to making a reliable independent public assessment and recount of Ohio's presidential tally.

In Mahoning County, the Washington Post reported new affidavits documenting electronic "vote hopping" from Kerry to Bush. This means voting machines highlighted the choice for Bush before the voter recorded a choice of his or her own. The legal team has been told by a computer expert that this may mean the machines were pre-set on a Bush vote as a default. The Free Press has obtained dozens such sworn statements of vote hopping.

The legal team is also exploring new evidence that in Coshocton, Ohio, write-in votes wrongly defaulted to Bush when run through the voting machine.

On December 23, U.S. Representative John Conyers, Jr. of the House Judiciary Committee, wrote a letter to Triad President Brett A. Rapp inquiring whether or not Triad possessed remote access capabilities for any of the 41 counties where its election tabulation software or computers are in use.

Attorneys for the election challenge team are also exploring ties between Triad and the Tennessee-based company Datamaxx. Ohio public safety and police agencies use the Datamaxx DMPP2020 software for its LEADS computer systems. Datamaxx makes numerous remote access products that law enforcement can access with mobile and handheld computers.

The Free Press has also obtained a list of all voting machines assigned in Franklin County, including serial numbers. The list contains at least 42 machines originally assigned to predominantly African-American and inner city wards that voted 80% for Kerry, and where voters waited in line for three hours and more on Election Day. These 42 machines were blacked out on the list, raising the question of whether these were among the 68 machines the Franklin County Board of Elections has admitted holding back in the warehouse despite obvious shortages at certain polling places. Affidavits from poll workers confirm that numerous requests for more machines were made through election day, but that few if any were delivered.

Franklin County Board of Elections Chair Bill Anthony claims that low-level poll workers refused to accept the machines assigned by high-ranking election officials. But he has yet to provide specific details. Anthony has repeatedly claimed that he was a watchdog for Democratic interests in the election, but he was a political appointee of the Republican Secretary of State.

Under Ohio election law, the members, directors and deputy directors of all boards of elections are assigned by the Secretary of State. They hold these paying jobs at his discretion regardless of whether they are Democrat or Republican. A major argument of those who claim Ohio’s 2004 presidential election was fraud-free centers on the myth that local precincts are run as bipartisan operations, deflecting charges of partisan interference while failing to account for the fact that the principles all owe their jobs to the Secretary of State, who in this case served as co-chair of the state's Bush-Cheney campaign.

These problems add to the established pattern of problems that favored Bush at Kerry’s expense.

Despite the legal stonewalling, lawyers directing the election challenge case are still pursuing evidence-gathering efforts. Three expert witnesses are scheduled to be deposed on Thursday and Friday, including specialists in statistics and vote counting irregularities.

The challengers are seeking a January 4th hearing before the Ohio Supreme Court. Members of Congress meet in Washington on January 6 to evaluate the Electoral College vote. Led by Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), it is virtually certain numerous members of the Congressional Black Caucus will challenge that vote. But the assent of a Senator is required for the challenge to go forward, and thus far none has definitively confirmed.

Despite ducking depositions, Blackwell is escalating his public appearances in hopes of becoming Ohio’s next governor. On January 12, 2005, Blackwell is scheduled to speak at the exclusive Scioto Country Club on the topic of “Ethics in Leadership.” Blackwell became nationally known after disenfranchising voters who had not registered on 80-pound bond paper stock under an archaic Ohio law. He reversed longstanding Ohio tradition that allowed voters to cast provisional votes by county by ruling that none of these votes would be counted unless the voter was in the right precinct. He also was recently censured for running a “get out the vote” campaign for Issue One, a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage and spousal benefits.

Meanwhile, Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) was reported to be filing a brief in federal court in relation to the activities of Triad and events in Hocking County, where serious questions have arisen as to the integrity of the recount. Kerry previously circulated a letter to all 88 counties requesting information on how the vote was conducted. The Kerry campaign raised millions of dollars from grassroots supporters with the promise that "all votes would be counted." But the Democrats are not known to have helped fund the legal work of the Green and Libertarian Parties and their grassroots Election Protection supporters, who have raised the money for the shoestring campaign that has kept the legal challenges alive thus far.

An Election Protection rally in downtown Columbus has been set by Rev. Jesse Jackson for 2pm Monday, January 3. It will be followed by a national gathering in Washington January 6, to take place as Congress evaluates the Electoral College and the Ohio votes, which have allegedly given George W. Bush another term in the White House.

--
Bob Fitrakis, Steve Rosenfeld and Harvey Wasserman are co-authors of the upcoming OHIO'S STOLEN ELECTION: VOICES OF THE DISENFRANCHISED, 2004, a book and film project from http://freepress.org. Support is welcome via http://freepress.org/store.php#don_pub or by sending a check to The “Columbus Institute for Contemporary Journalism”, 1240 Bryden Rd., Columbus, Ohio 43205.

[meganmonkey]

8. If a lawsuit falls in the courts, it makes a sound.

This is not being tried in the court of public opinion right now - which is probably a good thing.
Think about what would happen if the MSM picks this up and runs with it. Think hard. Do you WANT that to happen?
It seems better that it is quiet right now, IMHO.

[Karenca]

10. You're probably right ......

i.e: Watergate.

[jswordy]

13. Here is how an Ohio reversal would proceed...

...according to a Tribune Media Services column by Jules Witcover:

"The secretary has now sent certificates to the Bush electors for casting Ohio’s 20 electoral votes when the Electoral College meets in the various states on next Monday. If the recount isn’t completed by that date, Bonifaz says, it will continue, and if it shows Kerry to have won Ohio, two slates of electors will be sent to Congress when it convenes on Jan. 5 to confirm the election. Acceptance of the Kerry electors would swing the election to him."

[frictionlessO]

16. Hi Wordy!! Welcome to DU!!

Are you really from the MSM?? I cant believe no on else has caught what you said above in your first post!

If you are I hope you post often and with the insight that we need.

Again welcome to DU!:hi:

[meganmonkey]

19. The lawsuits in question are not the same as the recount

There are 2 different lawsuits AND the recount - 3 different actions. You are referring to the potential of the recount to change the Ohio electors. There is a lot more going on than that. Check out truthout.org and freepress.org for more info regarding the lawsuits and filings.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x199842

[mopinko]

22. except

that this is outdated. the electors have been certified for bush, because katherine blackwell stalled the certification and recount long enough. running out the clock is one of their favorite tactics.

[Last Lemming]

9. Kerry and gang

seem to be doing everything they can to keep this OUT of the MSM--and look-a big article in NYT may make you feel better for a moment but that's not where the money is--this is an issue that is not about publicity

After all--no one can blame media bias if the media isn't covering this at all--

It may be (just a thought) the media (NYT, WaPo, etc) are very aware of what is going on but are defering to a bigger plan

[jswordy]

14. Hi from the MSM again...

...and yes, we are aware of lots of stuff going on, but that does NOT make it a news story. I think coverage would come WHEN it is shown the exercise is more than simply academic. We're a cynical lot.

;-)

[jswordy]

17. Oh yes...one more thing...

...Witcover in his column says "...the chances of an election reversal are bleak to nonexistent..."

[SueZhope]

21. hi jswordy from the MSM

if this is the case, then why did the MSM spend countless hours talking
about the swift boat Liars? There story was not based on proven facts.
so why is that?

The fact that the election system is not transparent and there is major Voter Intimidation and Suppression ...Why is this not being talked about in the MSM ?

maybe you have some perspective on this, thanks

[Peace Patriot]

25. Yeah, I agree with SueZhope...

They have plenty of time for every other piece of crap news--and for ANY BushCon "talking point"--and no time for the systematic disenfranchisement of black voters in blatant violation of the Voting Rights Act, secret source code tabulating our votes, no paper trail, Bush-Cheney "Pioneers" owning the source code, Bush-Cheney campaign chairmen acting as Secretaries of State in charge of elections and shorting minority precincts on voting machines and doing everything possible, legal and illegal, to suppress Democratic votes, weird and anomalous numbers with impossible odds all over the landscape in any kind of election data you look at, and a mountain of other evidence of a fraudulent election.

WaPo and the NY Times are among the folks that brought us the Iraq war. So it is not surprising that they would draw their Iron Curtain over Bush Inc.'s power grabs and illegitimacy. The TV networks have the same motive--they are war profiteers--plus they fiddled the Exit Polls on Election night, and so they have THAT to obfuscate and cover up.

What we can expect from them--if and when Kerry or other Dems go public with a challenge--is POSSIBLY a little bit of razzle-dazzle in the news, a crapload of debunking and character assassination, and every conceivable effort to marginalize, minimize and make it go away.

And we wonder why Democratic politicians are not jumping on board?!

Do you know the myth of Sisyphus? We ARE Sisyphus, pushing that rock up the mountain, and the mountain is Bush Inc. and its lapdog media. The rock of The Truth. We push it all the way up (as we did on Iraq WMDs). It tumbles back down. We push it up again (as we did during the Election campaign--we got ordinary American voters to see through the Bush Inc. B.S., we really did!). It tumbles back down AGAIN. Now we're trying to push it up again. Lord, lord! It is a heavy task!

If Kerry were planning any serious action himself for Jan. 6, I think he WOULD be out in public speaking about it, because there is almost no hope that this illegitimately elected Bush Congress is going to do the right thing--so, public opinion is therefore all the more important--it's vital--especially informing Kerry voters (the majority!) what happened to their votes. He doesn't have to say Bush isn't president. He can say he doesn't know--or there are sufficient indicators that the result MIGHT be different, to warrant a full investigation before Bush is inaugurated.

It should be the top of the news. It should be on everybody's lips, and minds. (It is on many, but beneath the Iron Curtain of the MSM.)

That's the only hope for an immediate remedy (in Jan.)--that the people will demand an investigation. And Kerry is doing nothing to make it happen.

Kerry has floated that he is going to visit Iraq in January (some days ago, in the news). That's his out. Others may challenge Jan. 6. I don't think Kerry is going to, and he may not even be there. (Another out was handed to him by Jesse Jackson, perhaps inadvertently--announcing his support for a Constitutional amendment to protect the right to vote--and leaving it at that. Something that is NOT going to happen, or not any time soon.)

Maybe I'm wrong. But that's sure what this looks like to me.

He may well be into a long term strategy--to de-legitimize Bush Inc. down the line (a la Watergate). That's quite consistent with what he's done and said (acting to protect evidence, to obtain more evidence through depositions, to keep the recount going, etc.). It's possible that these are just cynical actions done so as not to entirely alienate his left flank--that is, token support. But there is equally strong reason to believe that he is in a prosecutor mode, and thinking long term.

If the latter is true, then his keeping his head down, and NOT trying for media attention makes sense. And what appears to be his acquiescence to this fraudulent election is actually misdirection--trying to keep the BushCon wolves from his throat, and quietly doing what's necessary to obtain and develop evidence.

This means that he is going to allow an illegitimate government to be installed, without a serious fight. He may hope their hubris will bring them down (they sure have a lot of it--arrogance, egotism, ripe for a fall), that they will stumble horribly (on the economy, for instance, or their war games--even worse than current events), and that an investigation of the election might then come in for the kill and finish them off.

But this would only be possible--in my opinion--with complete reform of the election system, so that it's back in the public venue, and elections are honest and verifiable. And I don't see Congress doing anything about this--they are more likely to make it worse (unless the Dems cut a deal with the BushCons, to shut up now in exchange for honest elections in '06 and '08). (--not outside the realm of possibility--that's the kind of deal our cynical Dem leadership would do). (And, if this doesn't happen, then the burden is back on us, requiring local and state fights for, a) a paper receipt for every vote, and b) open source code--at the least; if not a return to paper ballots and hand counts.)

Wow, I'm really sounding cynical myself here. I am not, though! I just don't want us to underestimate the difficulty of our task.

Jan. 6 is my line in the sand--as regards me and the Democratic Party, and any further support for this kind of cynical, compromising and sometimes clueless leadership (secret vote tabulation source code owned by BushCons! --jeez!).

I don't think the country can afford a long term takedown of Bush Inc. They did NOT win this election, nor the one in 2000, and they very clearly don't care what the majority wants. We need to be rid of them NOW. And whether that is feasible or not is beside the point. It is the Truth! The Democrats should be pushing that rock up the mountain with us. That's what the American people and the world need right now: The Truth!

[emlev]

26. At what point does discovery of election theft become a news story?

The proof is there. But the energy needed to build momentum isn't, because people in the U.S. are in the dark. They depend on the MSM for their information, and they're not getting it.

There have been many potential news stories along the way that have not gotten the coverage they deserve.

What will it take to get the story of this stolen election out via the MSM?

[m.standridge]

29. what's so maddening about this is the NUMBERS

--because they are coming in so slowly, just trickling in.
You see 10,000 votes here, 1000 there as POSSIBLY having been affected in a given county, a given precinct.
THAT may be why the media is taking time about this--the numbers that could destroy a Bush lead of over 100,000 votes are coming in glacially.
And, when they are here, what will the date be? Will it be Jan 7?
January 7 is too late.
So far, according to the new posting at Free Press.org, no Senator has agreed to vote to freeze the OH Electors. Same problem as last time.
There were several posts indicating this was not the case this time, but this hasn't panned out.

Also, whether the exit polls said things or not, is probably irrelevant, yet is a powerful part of the argument presented by many in the Internet.
We need to get the MSM to look harder and longer at blatant appearances of fraud, such as Warren County.
Meanwhile, the more recounts, lawsuits, freezes, computer checks that are done, with no SIGNIFICANT results, the more the PR tilts to the Reps.
In other words, it begins to appear the other side is long suffering, patient, while we make seemingly outlandish claims that don't pan out.
We need numbers. We still need numbers.
Nothing else works with this stuff, but numbers. They have to actually be there, not just be "alleged" to be there.
And it can't be, you know, that once this or that county or precinct, that was alleged to have "tens of thousands" of missed or uncounted votes, can only be demonstrated to have 2 dozen or 28, then you point to a different county, as if that one hasn't been done yet, and say, "and look at THAT one," as if the previous one had shown anything.
I'm not blaming anyone. There's on one at fault, it's a slow process. We are running out of time. If we haven't run out of time already.
Can we get this judge off the case? Can we get a Senator to commit to January 6? Can we get any real NUMBERS from looking at the computers, in any kind of reasonable time-frame? If there's any realism to this, why haven't the Democrats committed some cash?

[Last Lemming]

28. Just caught this

subpoenas issued--if not exactly served--on the president of the United States, also VP and campaign manager. . .isn't that news?

[dano5050]

18. ACTION: Post all news accounts to message boards for DBD and others.

One excellent way to keep the volume up on this stuff is to make sure that any and all relevant news items get posted ASAP to the message boards for all publicly traded companies involved.

the finance.yahoo.com is undoubtedly the best.

DBD - Diebold of course, our old friend. are any of the other companies in this space publicly traded?

other boards are available at

fool.com
ragingbull.com
stockhouse.com
marketocracy.com

etc.

dan

[newyawker99]

27. hi dano5050!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[mia]

20. Take it to the streets on New Years Day

IF A TREE FALLS IN A FOREST, AND NOONE IS AROUND, DOES IT MAKE A SOUND?
Well put! I'm feeling frustrated too.

We could promote this with homemade signs on busy intersections and/or in front of our local newspaper offices and TV stations.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1455767