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Kevin Spidel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 04:45 PM
Original message
Any talking points on the Ohio issue?
PDA is putting an email out in the field to ask specific states to lobby their Senators. Is there a place already where talking points are compilied? We have all the data, but not in one place. Why invent the wheel? If you know a place with talking points already... please let me know!

Thank you!
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kevin -
You might do well to contact KaliTracy - she is part of the Green party recount team and wanted help last night getting information about the Ohio recount out to the media -- <http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x205027>

I have been working on a big list of Ohio Fraud facts that I might be able to get down to a few paragraphs, don't know in what time frame.

:kick:


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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. You may also wish to contact Alan Waldman
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Nice site!
:kick:
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. Oh oh oh!
Here is a terrific site!


http://www.proveitonpaper.org/
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Kevin Spidel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. thank you! keep'em coming... here is the email that will go out


Dear Progressive Democrat Activists,

In the aftermath of the 2000 election, we all watched as not one Senator stood up with the members of the Black Congressional Caucus to support the debate of the voter suppression issues in Florida.

If we don't act quickly, it will happen again.

PDA has been working to keep the pressure on Senators to encourage them to take a stand for Democracy and contest the vote. In the public forums/hearings that we've helped to create, evidence is emerging that shows voter suppression and deliberate manipulation of election technology. This is a blatant attack on the core of what American Democracy is supposed to be, and demands action. The irony of this is clear--while Americans are dying overseas to spread Democracy, we're unable to achieve it here at home.

In response, PDA has launched an e-advocacy campaign targeting six Senators who appear to be sympathetic to voting rights issues: Russ Feingold, Patrick Leahy, Tom Harkin, Patty Murray, Richard Durbin, and John F. Kerry.

We have sent over 65,000 e-mails to Congress this month alone concerning this issue. But there's a lot more to be done--while our efforts so far have gotten the attention of these Senators, they're now telling us that they want to hear from their own constituents. That's where you come in--we need those of you that live in the states of these targeted senators to contact them directly, and share a personal story that carries the message we're trying to communicate. The targeted Senators have let us know that form letters are no longer working, so we've included some talking points at the end of this e-mail to help as background for your message.

Please take the time to contact your Senator today. American citizens deserve a proper public debate on the Senate floor on this issue prior to certification. No less than the very basis of our Democratic process is at stake.

Contact Senator Russ Feingold Today! Please call, fax, and email!

Web Site: feingold.senate.gov
E-mail: Contact Via 'Web Form.'

Washington Office:
506 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510-4904
Phone: (202) 224-5323
Fax: (202) 224-2725


Main District Office:
1600 Aspen Commons, Rm. 100
Middleton, WI 53562
Phone: (608) 828-1200
Fax: (608) 828-1203

Talking points here:

In peace,

Kevin Spidel
National Deputy Director
Progressive Democrats of America
http://www.pdamerica.org



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wendypan Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. So much info...CONSOLIDATE
Consolidate people. Consolidate!

Lots of newbies signing in. The Neo-cons are finally paying attention....lots of coverage today...Novack...the NY times...yada,yada, yada...

Taking points -- everyone please! I'll write mine and post tomorrow. I've got a meeting with Drinking Liberally tonite and will bring it up there.

Good luck. And happy summarizing!
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wendypan Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. INCOMING!
heads up people. Look sharp. the challenges are coming...
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. At some point would you include a call for a revote in Ohio?
If it was good enough for the Ukraine - it should be good enough for the US...

This is from Kip Humphrey at ChainMail News

CALL TO ACTION: REVOTE ESSENTIAL IN OHIO
Investigations in Ohio have revealed a total and complete breakdown of the voting process that can only be explained by a systematic and willful intent by the election authorities in this state to disenfranchise the People and defraud the election process. There has been several instances of flagrant violation of Ohio election law, tampering of vote tabulation machines and discarded ballots.

The investigations have revealed that machines broke down, counted backwards, eliminated votes and registered votes for the wrong candidate. Nearly all voting machine "glitches" favored Bush, some giving him thousands of extra votes. Democratic and African-American neighborhoods experienced by far the longest lines on election day, the most vote spoilage, the most elimination of provisional ballots and the most victimization by precinct manipulation. Four hundred thousand callers phoned voter protection hotlines with complaints ranging from absentee ballots lost in the mail to outright voter intimidation and disenfranchisement. Partisan election officials with conflict of interest were actively involved in undermining voting rights of the people. There have been documented instances of illegal tampering of the vote counting machines before and after the election and before the recount could being in Ohio.

The U.S. House Minority Judiciary Committee has documented massive and flagrant violations of federal voting rights act in Ohio. Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee have questioned the elections' legitimacy in a series of rigorous and painstakingly detailed letters documenting the unprecedented extent and scope of vote suppression, violations of the federal voting rights act, and potential voting machine fraud in both the election and the Ohio recount.

Detailed information is available at "Information" at
<http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats>

The electronic information from the voting machines has lost data integrity and is therefore invalid. A recount does not reflect accurately the will of the people hence necessitating a re-vote.

Similar problems have occurred in New Mexico, Texas, Nevada, Iowa, Florida and North Carolina.

The only way to find the truth about the will of the people is to have a statewide re-vote in these states.

Re-voting was conducted in Ukraine and it was fully supported by the U.S. administration and the same has to be done in all these states in the U.S. as well.

Further we state that the re-vote be conducted with a paper ballot to completely eliminate the possibility of electronic hacking and tampering. If voting electronically then a paper trail must be made mandatory. Further this re-vote should be directly supervised by the Carter Center for Peace or other International group respected for overseeing these elections that were formerly supervised by partisan politicians with conflict of interest.

In light of the above facts we ask that on January 6, 2005, Congress mandate a statewide re-vote starting January 15, 2005.

It would be difficult and impossible for us to continue to support a party or candidates who will not aggressively fight to prevent our elections from being stolen.

SAMPLE LETTER
Here is my letter as an example (please use as a guide but write in your own word):
Dear ,

The Ohio fall presidential election was a tangled mess of voter suppression, vote fraud, vote tampering, and electronic voting equipment denying citizens their voices and votes. This stain on our democracy is all the more appalling since the Ohio election results will choose our president and vice president.

To save our system of citizen rule, I ask you to sponsor or co-sponsor legislation demanding Ohio conduct a full, statewide manual revote for President and Vice President to be held on January 15th 2005.

To preserve faith in our system, said revote must be by independently supervised by the likes of the Carter Center for Peace, and be cast on paper ballots to avoid re-using suspect and compromised electronic voting and vote counting equipment.

Pursuant to a revote in Ohio, I request you stand in objection to the Ohio electoral vote when presented to the Congress for certification on January 6th, 2005.

As a , I require that fair and impartial elections be guaranteed and protected as the first duty of my elected representatives. If you do not stand up and act to preserve the integrity of the 2004 presidential election now, not only will you not enjoy my support and vote in the future, but I will work tirelessly to ensure you are not reelected. On the other hand, if you stand up for integrity and fairness in our election processes by denying the Ohio electoral vote, by voting in support of an Ohio revote, and by working to clean up our election process here in , I will stand with you and actively support you in the future.

With gravest seriousness,
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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I wonder if we should contemplate calling for a revote regardless.
It would take probably more people than we have.

But, I like the idea of it.

Call for a revote. Maybe just in Ohio.

Staff the precincts. Buy boxes with glass bottoms. Run it 7 am to 7 pm on a weekend. Paper only. No electronics. Same day reg.

Just the one race -- pres/vice pres.

Without media help, it wouldn't go anywhere. But, hey, we can dream, right. If they won't give us an honest election, perhaps we have to give it to ourselves.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Our urgent need for a revote in Ohio is MASSIVE voter suppression (n/t)
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. YES
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Kevin Spidel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
10. no talking points out there?
wow! what a shame! i guess i will have to get out staff out there. I could have sworn I have seen some somewhere.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
11. Kevin you gotta see this!!
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Make that EVERYONE you gotta see that!!
http://freepress.org/images/departments/PopularVotePaper181_1.pdf

It's 14 pages and includes a graph on how innacurate the vote count was, NOT the exit polls. It's truly excellent.
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FreepFryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
15. check out the wikipedia article.
Edited on Thu Dec-30-04 01:34 AM by FreepFryer
It is very lengthy, but contains a lot of useful info indeed, with subpages for areas of interest like exit polls, voting machines, etc.

They do a very good job of eliminating all the subjective opinions despite a wide range of content.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_U.S._presidential_election_controversy_and_irregularities
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FreepFryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. And there are the 36 questions from Conyers
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Hi FreepFryer!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Welcome to DU, FreepFryer
and may I say that I love your username! :hi:
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
17. I've got one for you
www.miamedia.com/votergate IS EXCELLENT!! Please visit it.

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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
18. Solar Bus
Solar Bus

if you just want the Ohio perspective, Solar Bus has a page of Ohio-only info here:

http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/ohio.html

but I would suggest the home page because it is updated more often and I think the Senators should know a few things from a broader perspective, not just Ohio-focused:

http://election.solarbus.org

Either way, the FREE PRESS should be read by all concerned:

http://www.freepress.org/index2.php
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
21. Kevin -- excellent Letter!
I am not with the GreenParty recount efforts --- (just a mom and fulltime techinical writer who couldn't get time off) -- though I've been writing a lot of letters, etc. More will be written tonight and tomorrow, and I plan to be in Columbus on the 3rd (actually have the day off!)

Please see this thread if you haven't already.... might give you some more ideas and talking points.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=209744&mesg_id=209744

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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
22. Many fronts, so little time
There is certainly a long list of areas of concern.

I'm just now uncovering in greater detail how ballot-order/precinct-number combinations were arranged to maximize Bush yield from cross-votes in Cuyahoga.

If you can make it thru a long-winded thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=196518&mesg_id=196518

this might add something. Follow the links too.

Bottom line, someone somewhere carefully crafted the situation so cross-vote switching of major candidates happened with the highest possible yields for Bush. It's that simple, yet a difficult and complex analysis, still ongoing with need to elucidate the discoveries.

But the pattern is so in your face and obvious, it is difficult to doubt or question. And it implies pre-planning.

Someone who knows well what has happened with precinct history since 1996 in Cuyahoga needs to read this thread carefully. And we need to look at other counties the same way.
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