It looks like our Senators are going to wimp out again

[Cheswick2.0]

They are looking for the case for fraud in Ohio to be proved and fool proof before they will stand up with the congress. WTF good are they?
What do they think they have to lose? There is more than enough circumstantial evidence to show massive vote suppression and illegal procedures by election officials.

I think they need to mass e-mail again and have this explained to them. If they won't even protect democracy, why oh why do we need to keep them in office? Maybe each one of them deserves a primary challenge by a grassroots candidate.

[Botany]

1. Contact all these Senators.

The Senators who shall receive the greatest focus from Conyers in this matter are Biden, Bingaman, Boxer, Byrd, Clinton, Conrad, Corzine, Dodd, Dorgan, Durbin, Feingold, Harkin, Inyoue, Jeffords, Kennedy, Kerry, Lautenberg, Leahy, Levin, Lieberman, Mikulski, Nelson (FL), Jack Reed, Harry Reid, Rockefeller, Sarbanes, Stabenow, Wyden and Obam.

Send them 100% true facts and ask them to stand for America. Byrd is old and
cranky ...... He might be the best bet.

:kick:



BTW KERRY WON

[Cheswick2.0]

9. I love Robert Byrd

I once called his office and told them he was my addopted senator since mine were so useless (pa).

He might be our best shot, but he has won my respect either way. He has done more than his share of standing up for us.

[jpgray]

13. Like when he voted for cloture on the gay marriage amendment?

He was in the happy company of Zell Miller and one other Democratic senator on that one--who was he standing up for there? Bigots? Byrd is just another senator--some good and some bad. Pork barrel for his state and a vote for bigotry next to some fine votes, speeches and amendments on the war resolution.

[Cheswick2.0]

25. He has always been a social conservative

and I know all about his votes that I don't agree with. That changes nothing. I don't expect perfection in politicians on every issue. Feingold voted for Ashcroft.

I do expect courage.

[Cherie59]

62. AMEN! He is also one heck of a fiddler too!

[Calvinist Basset]

11. How about calling all of them?

And if they want evidence, refer them to this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x215277

[IndyOp]

63. Help! Congressional Briefing on Vote Fraud in Ohio - FAX to Senators!

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x217897>

:bounce:

[HeyManThatsCool]

2. We can mass email

until our fingers turn blue- but, unless we send those emails with big fat checks they won't pay attention.

[jpgray]

3. I'll keep Boxer, Feingold and others, thanks.

Voter fraud is SOP in the US, and unless there is complete evidence given complete exposure, an inquiry that will be controlled by the Republicans is going to be milked for all the political gain they can squeeze out of it. And they will get a lot out of it--progressive values will sink more and they will consolidate their power further, but at least you'll be momentarily satisfied. With a lot of exposure and solid evidence, it could work, but now?

[coreystone]

4. If I were a Senator, I wouldn't give an "advance preview"!..eom

[Darkhawk32]

5. If they don't stand up... we need to start voting them out. n/t

[OKthatsIT]

22. You wont need to do a thing..the Reps will WIPE THEM OUT

course they'll hang to a few moderates to make it look like a democracy...

I kid you NOT

[Darkhawk32]

24. True, they'll "Cleland" them all out. n/t

[zann725]

56. With WHAT votes?! As clearly votes aren't truly counted any more...

And THEY know that...better than we.

So to threaten to withdraw our votes to them, is like whistling in the wind. Aghhh!

[senseandsensibility]

6. Why do you say it looks like they're gonna wimp out?

Did something happen? I haven't heard back from any of the senators I e-mailed, and I haven't read anything suggesting that they're gonna wimp out. Not that I'm doubting you.

[Cheswick2.0]

20. It's coming from the grapevine that there is not enough proof of fraud

and irregularities are not enough to cause them to stand up with the congress.

[dave123williams]

50. They're an investigative body; where's the investigation?

Not having proof might just mean that they're not looking very hard for it.

[garybeck]

7. how do you know what they're going to do n/t

[joeunderdog]

8. "We won't ask for an investigation until the investigation's complete."

F-en pussies

[Cheswick2.0]

12. exactly

you have summed up my thinking perfectly. They want someone else to do all the work and take all the chances, then they will jump out in front and "lead".

[WilliamPitt]

10. It is not totally deranged

for someone to ask for proof behind the allegations before they sign on to something. I would.

That's why Conyers is publishing his report.

[Botany]

14. Mr. Pitt

Do you know what is in the report?

[HeyManThatsCool]

21. Agree with Will

It ISN'T insane to ask for Proof....... but, I believe that some proof is there & it wouldn't hurt to dig a little deeper.

you yourself have exposed some PROOF of what has happened.
If you can do it... why can't they?





Proof of Ohio Election Fraud Exposed
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121604Z.shtml



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Assassins of Democracy, Votergate 2004 Continues
http://www.opednews.com/wade_122904_democracy_assassins.htm


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Election Results Can't Be Verified

Publish Date: 30-Dec-2004

Roger Barany notes: "No one has been able to assert that the reelection of Bush is directly attributable to fraud." While true, this statement puts the burden of proof in the wrong place. For an election result to be accepted, it should be provable that fraud did not occur, through a recount. However, this is impossible with the touch-screen voting machines used in many states. With these machines, although one cannot prove fraud, one cannot prove legitimacy either; and since stealing elections is human nature, nobody should ever accept the results of such an unverifiable vote.

[Cheswick2.0]

27. I didn't say they were totally deranged. I said they were wimps.

We shall see. To me it looks like they are going to wimp out.

[KaliTracy]

15. If anyone is going to stand up, they won't be annoucing it ... so we

need to relax a bit and keep writing the ones that might have the potential (and others, too, imploring them to stand up for democracy).

[Cheswick2.0]

23. that reminds me of the great silence of 2002

when we were supposed to believe that gutlessness and silence was going to help us take back the senate.

I agree we keep writing, but I have no faith that there is some secret plan we aren't privy to.

[KaliTracy]

28. I'm not saying there is a Secret plan in the Senate, only if a Senator

has been considering this, contesting the electors, etc. he/she is not going to announce that prior to it happening. It just isn't instant gratification time. Do I hope one stands? Yes. Do I expect one to stand? Not really, though if any Dems. out there are po'd enough, they might.

[lonestarnot]

16. Won't believe a wimpout until I see a wimpout!

[wiggs]

17. Even if they haven't come to conclusion that vote is tainted....

....they should stand in unison as a true opposition party and make a statement of concern and displeasure. They can't pass up this opportunity to make a statement.

They can use the debate opportunity to repeat concerns about black box voting and remind everyone that the repubs killed bbv legislation last year.

Actually, I don't care what their reasons are for standing up against this administration and the republicans. But they must stand up, all of them, and indicate to us, to the republicans in congress, and to the administration that they are through rolling over.

[Freddie Stubbs]

18. The nerve of them to demand proof before acting!

What a buch of cowards.

[Cheswick2.0]

29. with that kind of thinking

we'd still be singing God Save the Queen.

[The Gigmeister]

19. What's wrong with asking for proof?

Or would you rather a few senators commit political suicide? How about we hang our newest shining star, Obamma out?

Personally, I stand with Senator Kerry here. I trust him, since he had the most to lose, over Tinfoilers.

[katinmn]

30. the "proof" is being destroyed right and left before our eyes

the most famous current example being TRIAD employees tinkering with voting machines DURING the recount on December 10 or so.

What kind of proof can we wait for? The kind Blackwell and Co allows us to see? That's naive and self-deceptive.

And if it's political suicide to stand up for clean elections so what? It's also political suicide not to. Who is going to work their butts off and give money to leaders who don't stand up for justice?

And it IS a matter of justice. Plain and simple.

[The Gigmeister]

31. I stand with our Democratic Senators, including Senator Kerry.

Plain and simple.

[anamandujano]

59. Correct--the proof we need is that our elections are clean.

If we can't verify, we can't trust.

There are way too many causes for doubt of this. All of the so-called irregularities favored Bush.

As far a Kerry retaining his pristine stature as a good loser, tell that to all of the people Bush will be killing during his stay this time around. Well, come to think of it, Kerry approves of Bush's warlike stance so, never mind.

[Clark2008]

32. Tin foil?

Apparently you haven't been reading the evidence many have posted here.

Yes, there are some things that definately are "tin foilish," but there is sound evidence, such as voter disenfranchment in the minority community and all the crap these people have pulled in trying to release raw data: the MSM, Blackwell, etc. Why, if there was no election fraud, are they trying to keep the information from becoming public? Makes no sense.

[Cheswick2.0]

33. first of all , nice personal attack

calling me a tinfoiler.

Secound, yes I think people should risk political suicide for what is right.
There is no assumption that election to office is a life long promise of employment.

[The Gigmeister]

37. It's only personal if you take it that way.

And I trust are senators ARE doing what's "Right".

[Cheswick2.0]

45. really, and what proof do you have that they are doing what is right?

What exactly have they done for you since 1996 except act as democratic office place holders?

[EFerrari]

47. Why? This same crew voted for the Patriot Act and the war?

Or, was that some other Senate?

[enough already]

51. The same Senate

...that watched silently while the Black Caucus pleaded for just ONE of them to stand up during the 2000 certification. Forgive me if I find these claims of "secret plans" for Jan. 6 to be more than a bit dubious.

[EFerrari]

54. As do I. They all need to get a sping or we have to send them

on a "no incumbent left behind tour". I can't sit by and let that shame happen AGAIN.

[katinmn]

34. Kerry isn't the only one who lost. It's not just about Kerry.

[Cheswick2.0]

43. You are so right

It is not about Kerry.
He has NOTHING to lose. He'll be reelected to senate as long as he want to be then he will retire rich. I am not worried about Kerry.

[Straight Shooter]

38. Cheswick a tinfoiler?

Bwhahahahaha! That's rich. I'll be snorting at that one all day.

[Stew225]

26. Can you think of a better gig than that of being a

Senator? Do you think that anyone but a consummate "politician" can acquire such a position? God, I'm sorry I'm so cynical. I've just seen so much crap that I can no longer delude myself. Sorry.

[shiawassee_democrat]

35. Petition & Resolution .. please sign

Members of the Shiawassee County Democratic Party (Shiawassee County, Michigan) have formed a petition and a resolution that we intend to forward to our representatives. These documents can be signed online at our web site:

http://petition.shiawasseedems.com/petitions.php?id=1
http://petition.shiawasseedems.com/petitions.php?id=2.

If you sign these, please include your address and title in the "your comments" section.

These documents will be forwarded to United States Senators Debbie Stabenow and Carl Levin, and Representatives John Dingell, Dale Kildee, Carolyn Kilpatrick, Sander Levin, and Bart Stupak.

We have editable copies of these documents in MS Word 2003 format in the ‘downloads – other’ section of our website. These documents include full references and distribution lists for Michigan representatives. Non-Michigan residents are welcome to download these documents and edit them accordingly:

http://shiawasseedems.com/downloads/petition.doc
http://shiawasseedems.com/downloads/resolution.doc

This is a small step in protecting freedom, but it’s a necessary step, and one that we can take together. I hope you will join us in this effort.

Thank you,
Christine Barry
Shiawassee County Democrats
www.shiawasseedems.com

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win –Mahatma Ghandi

[newyawker99]

65. Hi shiawassee_democrat!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[European Socialist]

36. Count all the votes

Thanks to Kerry's lawyer-this is all there's to it. kind of hard argument for a Senator to make against the repukes.

[CoffeeCat]

39. My opinion...Senator(s) will remain silent until 1/6

I never expected that we would have a Senator's name prior to the 1/6 hearings. NEVER.

Can you imagine???? The White House hears that the electoral certification will be denounced, thus throwing the election process into utter chaos. If any senator gives the slightest indication of contesting--the hellfire rained down upon him/her would surely be unbearable. Who would sign up for that?

Pre-accouncement would open the floodgates for days of abuse, vilification, threats and Godknowswhatelse Rove may dish up.

If there is a Senator (or Senators), they will come forward during the certification--as Conyers' evidence/information is released.

The truth will help to somewhat insulate any Senator who steps forward. If the truth is revealed cogently and convincingly--the names of these House/Senate members will become secondary issues--to the fact that there is an illegitimate president sitting in the Oval Office, and that the election is fraudulent.

That way, they avoid the fireworks and lamb-to-the-slaughter effect of pre-announcing.

It's ludicrous to think that a Senator would come forward prior to the certification.

Just my 2 cents.

(edited to add one more thing!)

[Laurab]

40. Thank you!

That is exactly what I would like to have posted, but I would not have done it as well. Lucicrous and hurtful to whatever they may hope to accomplish. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not familiar with the * machine, and the damage they would do with their spin.

[fooj]

41. I agree!

+2=4 cents!! i am right there with you on this!!!B-)

WHAT ARE THEY HIDING?????:think:

[Cheswick2.0]

42. problem is that they are not silent about it

they are already letting people know they will not stand with Conyers.

[katinmn]

46. argggh! where have you seen or read this?

I would like to see who is saying what.
Thanks.

[Cheswick2.0]

52. go to the Bernie Saunders thread

See that Kerry will be out of the country.

[Helga Scow Stern]

44. The important thing is that WE don't wimp out, so keep faxing:

Snail mail is too slow and gets irradiated. Email is overlooked.

Here are fax numbers (there is a way to do bulk and free faxing in the thread listed at the end):

Biden:
NH 302-573-6351
DC 202-224-0139

Bingamen:
DC 202-224-2852

Boxer:
San Bernadino 909-888-8613
DC 202-228-1338

Byrd:
Charleston 304-343-7144
DC 202-228-0002

Clinton:
DC [phone]
NYC [phone]
Albany [phone]

Conrad:
DC [phone]
Fargo [phone]

Corzine:
DC [phone]
Newark [phone]

Dodd:
DC [phone]

Dorgan
Bismarck 701-250-4484
DC 202-224-1193

Durbin
DC [phone]
Chicago [phone]

Harkin
DC [phone]
Des Moines [phone]

Jeffords
DC 202-228-0776

Kennedy
DC 202/224-2417
Boston 617/565-3170

Kerry
DC [phone]
Boston [phone]

Lautenberg
DC(202) 228-4054
Newark [phone]

Leahy

Levin
DC [phone]

Lieberman
CT [phone]
DC [phone]

Mikulski
DC 202-224-8858

Nelson
DC 202-228-2182

Jack Reed
DC [phone]
Cranston [phone]

Harry Reid
DC 202-224-7327
NV 702-388-5030

Rockefeller
Charleston 304-347-5371

Sarbanes
Baltimore [phone]
DC [phone]

Stabenow
DC 202-228-0325

Wyden
DC 202-228-2717

Obama
312-427-6401

For bulk and free email faxing:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x7570

[EFerrari]

48. Thanks! n/t

[renate]

49. Is Kennedy a possibility?

His re-election is as secure as anybody's in the Senate, he couldn't be considered more liberal anyway so standing up wouldn't change his image, and he's the senior senator from Massachusetts and could sort of be Kerry's surrogate.

on edit: Whoops. Just saw rox63's thread on this very subject. Oh well.

[Cheswick2.0]

53. it's not looking that way

There is a thread discussing Kennedy. I don't think it looks good for him.

I'd bet on Byrd if anyone. But I think even he will refuse to stand up if no one else is.

[gkhouston]

55. If no one else signs the challenge, I think Byrd will, and

I wouldn't put it past him to stand there and scold the rest of the Senate for refusing to join him. Whatever happens, he's probably on his last term, and he's not a man to suffer fools gladly. It could be a sight to see, watching him blister their ears while they shift in their seats...

Gina

[katinmn]

57. Dang it. Someone better.

[Carolab]

58. It's their fault we're in this mess

they should take the responsibility for getting us out of it

Bunch of weak wienies, IMO, buckled under the pressure and took the $--THEY SOLD US OUT and if they don't stand up for us THAT PROVES IT

[googly]

60. They are almost all lawyers....they have no guts to stick their neck

out unless they see conclusive evidence wich can stand up in
a court of law. Let's face it, the actual vote count is what
counts, the polls are not the official count, no matter how
accurate. No judge in his/her right mind will throw out the
actual vote count using statistics and polls.

That leaves us only one thing....proof of fraud. And as I have
repeatedly said on this board, it has to come from a true
insider such as someone who actually programmed and directed
the fraud. That means from inside Diebold, Triad etc. Until
that happens, I am not going to get my hopes up. I hate big
disappointments.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IndyOp]

64. Help! Congressional Briefing on Vote Fraud in Ohio - FAX to Senators!

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x217897>

:bounce: