Kerry/Edwards NOT fighting "behind the scenes". Damn.

[letsgetiton]

I came on DU this mrning, and read the thread about a possible "rope-a-dope strategy. It sounded brilliant and perfect, and finally settled the volcanoes in my stomach, my brain, my heart.

I talked to someone very close to the campaign a few hours ago. She seemed surprised at the notion of continuing the battle. She said the decision was made that it would be too disruptive to the country to contest the election.

I decided not to post this, at first. The speculated scenario had given me so much hope - and I know it did for other DU'ers. And maybe this person wrong, or not allowed to discuss the real strategy.

I'm just passing on what I was told by someone who would know.

[NYC Liberal]

1. That's why WE will keep fighting.

They might be giving up, WE WON'T!

[leftyandproud]

20. denial denial denial

It's fucking OVER.

[Oak2004]

32. We are the electorate

and no party gets to make our decisions for us.

[genius]

42. I called Kerry's office yesterday and I got that he wasn't pursuing it too

[BayStateBoy]

44. Do Kerry-Edwards Really Know What's Being Uncovered? n/t

[White Feather]

48. Tired Commanders

I think Kerry should have let the whole thing just sit for a couple of days. He needed to get a good night's sleep or two and then see what to do. Being tired causes bad decisions.

[skooooo]

2. Too disruptive to the country??!!!!

Like another 4 years of Bush is not going to be disruptive??

I don't get it. AT ALL.

[letsgetiton]

7. Frankly, I don't either.

I hope that the person I spoke with was giving me the big "misdirection". To fight for this election is to fight for the future of this country. I just can't believe that John Kerry and John Edwards are not ready for that fight.

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. Two lawyers of their tenacity giving it up so fast? I don't buy it

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bullimiami]

3. if you really know someone close to the campaign

you tell her what is coming to light. and tell her to get kerry and edwards to look at it.
then you tell me we need worry about disruption. it has been disrupted already.

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. Right on! You have her tell the campaign that NOT pursuing this

is going to be a heck of a lot more disruptive!!!

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[Siyahamba]

4. Too disruptive for the country?

Consider this: *'s first term may be considered "moderate" compared to his second. Without having to worry about running for reelection, he wouldn't have to hold back his radical policies.

I think that would be more disruptive to the country.

[robbedvoter]

27. yeah. W needs to wage his wars in peace, without Dems bugging him

[redsoxliberal]

5. 26 posts...

if you're not a freeper... i apologize... but we are getting trolled pretty bad today... so we may not believe your story (mainly because we don't want to.)

[letsgetiton]

11. Yes I'm low posts. My real DU name is chimpymust go and I've been around

a LONG time. I was a way back supporter of Edwards, and of Kerry. As I explained in an earlier post, my laptop is being repaired, so I got another DU account on my daughter's computer.

[UpsideDownFlag]

12. you're account still exists, you didnt have to get a new one for a new PC

there's only one internet. despite what you might hear from *

[letsgetiton]

16. Here's the deal. I've been through a few email accounts since I started.

I lost access to DU before, during the server upgrade a couple of years ago. I just decided not to bother Skinner and Earlg and elad about sending me a new password during the election. And My laptop will be back tomorrow or Saturday. I haven't bothered to post that much - but I will share this, which I wrote through tears) at 5 am Wednesday morning:

Mornings

Were there beautiful mornings in Germany
When the orange sun rising promised hope
And the restless wind teased the leaves from their trees
And innocents were starved and gassed

Mornings bright and strong
All across the sunny south
When human beings were bought and sold and beaten and raped
In the face of beautiful mornings

My country is dead
The morning is bright and strong

[George_S]

30. Cool, don't bother us either

[George_S]

29. LOL! Only one internet

[Divine Discontent]

24. that may have been the STUPIDEST comment I've ever read

about getting another account because he's using his daughter's computer... thanks for the LATE laugh.. I needed it. ya freeper!

"I hear there's rumors on the internets!"

bush sucks, always will.

when clinton lied, no one DIED! dammit.

[letsgetiton]

26. no need to turn this into a pissing match, mr 124 posts.

1. I am a woman.
2. I no longer have the email account that I started on DU with. I've been here more than 3 years - lurked since nearly the beginning of DU. I don't have to explain myself to you.
3. Welcome to DU. It's a great place.

[truthpusher]

8. Oh really, I've been looking for a reason to give up...thanks!

[Chili]

10. but...

WE ARE THE COUNTRY. It's OUR country too.

[letsgetiton]

14. I did point out to her that even as we spoke, dozens, perhaps thousands of

people are crunching the numbers - AND THEY'RE NOT ADDING UP. I did get the sense that Elizabeth Edwards' breast cancer was a huge blow to everyone, and reinforced their decision not to contest.

I PROMISE you - I hope this is not true. And even if K/E choose not to fight - then WE must continue to fight. Bev Harris, Greg Pallast, SoCalDem, et al - I pray - we have just begun to fight.

[dflprincess]

21. I would certainly understand if John Edwards took a back seat

in this fight. God knows he and Elizabeth have a big enough one on their hands now.

I've assumed Kerry's concession may have been a rope-a-dope and a way of taking the Edwards out of the circus a public declaration of not giving in would have created. Frankly, I can't see Teresa walking away from a fight.

I hope the insider quoted isn't quite as "inside" as she thinks.

[Sufi Marmot]

13. Regardless of whether they actually are or not...

...would they necessarily admit it to you if they were...?

-SM

[FlaGranny]

15. Good grief - did you tell this person

how angry we are? We're doing the work and they gave up? Call back and tell this person that and tell this person to tell Kerry and Edwards. Tell them next time when they tell us they'll fight for us we just might not believe them.

[redsoxliberal]

17. Yeah, PLEASE!!!!!!!!

[letsgetiton]

19. Yes I did. And I hope to speak with her again tomorrow.

I find it very hard to believe that they are just giving up.

Has anyone asked Will Pitt what he's hearing?

[merh]

41. I haven't seen WillPitts post since yesterday. He was hit with

a brick the night of the election (mugging?) - I hope he is okay.

[KalicoKitty]

46. Still Standing, Still Fighting, Still Here

By William Rivers Pitt

t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Friday 05 November 2004

"It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired."
- Robert Strauss


I've been working on digesting the results of the election. Mark Moford of the San Francisco Chronicle gave perhaps the best description of how I am feeling: "It simply boggles the mind: we've already had four years of some of the most appalling and abusive foreign and domestic policy in American history, some of the most well-documented atrocities ever wrought on the American populace and it's all combined with the biggest and most violently botched and grossly mismanaged war since Vietnam, and much of the nation still insists in living in a giant vat of utter blind faith, still insists on believing the man in the White House couldn't possibly be treating them like a dog treats a fire hydrant."


More:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110504A.shtml

[merh]

61. Thank you for the update & link!

:hi:

[shelley806]

23. Please is right!! Let's send a DU letter, petition, whatever.....n/t

[InvisibleTouch]

18. Maybe they haven't heard the latest that's been found?

If they truly didn't think they had a chance, I can see them deciding not to fight. They'd only look foolish, and end up losing anyway - thus hurting the Democrats even more. But if there's clear evidence that they can win, I believe they'd pursue it. I can only imagine they haven't heard the latest.

Go check out this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1293

and the smoking gun that Stryguy found. Then pass it along to your contact person, and anyone else you can think of!

[letsgetiton]

22. If we can compile some results in one file cogent file, I will happily

pass it on. I can also get it to some people in the media - though, as you all know, the storyline is now set, and they will be loathe deviate. I - as will everyone else here - will do what I can to expose this criminal act upon the American people.

[shelley806]

28. Here are some really good links, especially the one by Otter...

There is a graph on this thread posted by pandorasox, that shows the results of 9 states, 3 with paper ballots, and 6 with electronic cheating machines. There was excellent correlation between the exit polling and the actual counted votes in the paper ballot states. In FL and OH, Kerry won in the exit polling, but B* won by a huge increase in the electronic count. Otter showed that B* gained from 4%-15% for the difference between the exit polls and the electronic tabulation of the actual vote in 7 states. He believes this is evidence of tampering. If we can obtain all exit polls and compare paper vs. electronic machines, this might be adequate evidence for demanding a recount. I don't know how to obtain the exit polls, and many have been "corrected.."



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x11874

Exit polls analysis versus reported vote count

Faun Otter
Two other good links are:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x19390

althecat

George Bush's 8 Million New Votes Found – STATISTICAL ANALYSIS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1319066&mesg_id=1319066

Ladyhawk

Raging Against the Machines--I Need Your Help to Compile Resources!!!!
There was another posting that looked at OH counties, and found outright tabulation/credit discrepancies. I think the person that posted it posted on this thread.

[Spangle]

33. Thank You!

Ladyhawk,
Election night I sat in shock. The numbers just didn't add up. The GOTV, etc.. and we did WORSE then in 2000? The next day I was "in and out" of it. When I finaly got some rest, I knew I had to face some facts. All the GOTV and Money isn't going to change things. And with canidates like Kerry not willing to go the distances... Alot of energy for nothing.

I knew I couldn't get mad at my republican friends and neighbors for this latest mess. Not when I knew statisticly that it wasn't because THEY voted him into office. Many, many republicans told me they voted for Kerry and expected him to win. The problem isn't the voters. It isn't lack of GOTV. It isn't the lack of money.

It's BBV.

If we don't work on BBV, the what is the point of working on elections? There isn't. We need to give BBV the same kind of energey, attention, and funding that we would a very most special canidate.

It's not about being mad. It's about being realistic. We need to start demanding our leadership stand up to the plate about this issue. And that means holding back ALL funding until they get on board. No more wasting money.

This is an issue our fellow republicans can endorse with us. They are constantly being told storys that "we" do dirty deeds. If they believe them storys.. then ask them to help us clean the whole mess up. No more finger pointing. The REAL dirty people are just power hungery. Not sunday granny against abortion.

WE need to ask the moderators if we can have 2 special control post threads. Where only approved, informative posts are placed BY the MODERATORS into the threads. one dealing with BBV information that we can share. The other dealing with voter fraud investigations. Like the Ohio thread.

Thanks for starting the issue. I'm behind you. And I bet as more recover from exaushtion..they will be on this wagon as well.

[Spangle]

31. Need to remind them

It's not just about the presidentual race. It's not just about them. And it doesn't matter if they LOST. What matters is they promised US to at least wait until every vote was counted. WE supported them for THAT reason.

We need the evidence that is found in messes like this. We donated our time and money.. and they are cheating us by running from this. They hyped us up about lawyers, etc. That is WHY PEOPLE STAYED IN LINE!

2000 was dirty. But we did gain from it. What are we gaining this time?

ps.. that is "IF" they lost. I don't think they did. I just think there is a bigger picture going on here then just this ONE race. It's a long battle that has been going on for a long time.

If he was so worried about "dividing" our country. He could have honestly said the wasn't going to allow the media to call the election. He was going to be just as patient as those standing in line, and allow the process to finish on it's own. Let the SoE around the coutnry do their job.. and just take a vacation while waiting for the results. And that the whole nation should enjoy this time of NO POLITICAL ADVERTISING.

[merh]

43. Spangle, in the states with what appears to be obvious fraud

did we lose senate or house seats? That would also effect our power and might interest the individual candidates.

[Generator]

25. Go tell it to Chris Heinz in the support forum

Elvis has left the building and gone back to the Senate.

[Joylaughter]

34. Either JK has something up his sleeve

or he's the biggest asshole since DUbya. One or the other. We trusted him. He told us that every vote counts and every vote would be counted. WTF?!?!?!

[lefthandedskyhook]

58. There was a "wait and see" comment...

in Kerry's last address. I hope and believe that he has something planned: this may or may not have anything to do with the election, however.

[RememberTheCoup]

35. I don't want to say I don't believe you...

I'll just say that I don't trust ANYONE on the Internet to tell the truth. Whether or not the campaign is fighting is irrelevant. The country is not John Kerry's to give away. The rest of us will keep fighting whether the campaign does or not.

[glitch]

36. If they're not fighting their careers are over - who wants a quitter?

I hope for all our sakes that they are fighting. It's very understandable if they have to fight very quietly or by proxy.

But, no investigation of the most massive vote fraud perpetrated on the American people, by the very same people who have extensive experience in banking, insurance and stock fraud? S&L Bailout, Silverado, BCCI, Iran/Contra?

Come on, these people are going to balk at vote fraud?

Somebody sure as hell better be investigating. I would rather it be professional criminal investigators but if it has to be a grassroots effort, so be it.

[West Coast Democrat]

37. And you are?....

Anyone can come to a website and post something like this.

[silvershadow]

38. Maybe we should all bombard them with emails and phone calls

they should be made aware that we WANT the fight

[LiberalAndProud]

39. We must demand an audit.

We must be able to depend on fair and just elections. Even if we cannot change the outcome of this one, we must be able to have faith in the integrity of our political system.

If our process is not tamper-proof, we are at risk from entities from political parties within our country and political factions from without.

I need to be reassured that our system works.

[diatribe]

40. Or they just aren't tell you.

Why let the cat out the bag?

[jdj]

47. cough, cough

I feel like a stranger in a strange land this a.m.

[The Flaming Red Head]

49. I plan to be as disruptive as possible over the next four years

This just pissed me off more. I will participate in the Peace movement. My vote didn't count. Time to take to the streets. Fuck Bush. This just made me angrier. I will not heel damnit.

[Bridget Burke]

50. So what's her name & her position in the campaign?

Some real information would be useful.

[molly]

51. I think that they would be keeping this quite a secret

and not sharing with staffers.

[Bridget Burke]

52. Especially loose-lipped staffers....

Who'll talk to just anybody.

[Arioch]

53. The Art of War....

All warfare is based on deception.

Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable;
when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we
are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away;
when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
...


Kerry is no idiot...

[lefthandedskyhook]

59. Agreed

Kerry is no idiot... and we have only pieces of information.

[robbedvoter]

54. AAR - Mark Riley - based on yesterday's guest - Kerry was not going to

make fraud an issue - he didn't throughout the campaign, it would look "sore loser" now. He had a senate seat to return to"
I missed yesterday's guest, but Crispin Miller talked about the time he spoke to Kerry about Diebold, how it cost Cleland his seat and how there are activism organizations working on it. He had the clear feeling he wasn't heard, although Teresa seemed interested.

[lefthandedskyhook]

60. All bets are off if there's an airtight case built

It would be built by surrogates below the main radar.

[IdaBriggs]

55. How close is close?

I need to talk to someone from the campaign, and so far I have been butting my head against the proverbial wall! :)

[Carni]

56. This is getting really tiresome

Is anyone else getting tired of reading these revelations from "new people" in the know with the Kerry campaign?

[demokatgurrl]

57. This does not surprise me- I never believed they didn't give up.