I hope Kerry isn't banking on 2008

[AmerDem]

If Kerry and his people plan to go lightly on the blatant fraud of 2004 to set himself up for another run in 2008, they better wake up fast. Many if not most in our party will never forgive the guy. I think it's that simple.

[WI_DEM]

1. But he's "got our back"

I agree. I don't think Kerry running in '08 would be good.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

2. It was the concession

Too quick, too final.

All due respect to anyone who disagrees. I respect alternate opinions and I hope you'll allow me to have mine.

I don't mean to show John Kerry disrespect. The concession speech, and the Bush victory speech that followed, KILLED ME. I don't think that John Edwards was too happy either, but only John Edwards knows that for sure. He put on his "game face" and did what the vice presidential candidate should have done...he stood behind the presidential candidate and supported him. I just didn't see a man at peace with John Kerry's decision to concede.

The only TRUE way to deal with the "blatant fraud of 2004," as you describe it, would be to remove George Bush from office, and I don't see that happening. If voter fraud is PROVEN, and Bush remains in office, I really don't understand what would be gained. We would have proved a point on paper, but not in practice. Seriously...all of self-proclaimed "political experts"...come forward and explain what would be GAINED if voter fraud were PROVEN and George Bush got to remain in office. If you have a response other than "Jack SHIT," I'd like to hear it. Evil is as old as the world and evil is in the oval office. We have four years to do better. To prevent WORTHLESS MOTHERF**KER BILL FRIST from riding Karl Rove's FAT ASS into the White House.

I think that DU will remain split on Kerry as long as there's a DU, and as long as there's a John Kerry. The "get over it" people can kiss my ass...this kind of thing I will NEVER "get over."

[Clark2008]

3. Don't worry about that cadaver

Bill :scared: Frist won't make it to the nomination.

I'll be going to the local newspapers to tell them exactly how much he cared about Homeland Security in 2002 when I needed his help: nada.

I guess I'll be a "Swift Mom for Truth."

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

6. I salute you...Frist cares about nothing but Frist.

I would support George Bush before I'd support THAT abomination...

...and anyone who's read even a FEW of my DU posts knows how I feel about George Bush.

:toast:

[AmerDem]

12. It was too quick

and it was final and Edwards came out hours before Kerry saying he will fight to make sure every vote was fair and counted.

I never once expected Kerry to take office if we pushed for the voting fraud issue. The only outcome I want to see is to have a voting system that is foolproof and honest. I know once that happens we will take back every seat we lost in a shorter time than we lost it.

I don't think it makes a world of difference if shrub is in office or not. Let's start getting the facts out to average everyday Americans, both Dem. and Rep. and see if they agree, I think they will overwhelmingly. Hell, if we don't try to do something about it now regardless if shrub holds office or not, how are we ever going to take back control of our government?

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

23. You're right, for the next four years we need to work HARD.

...and one of the first things we need to come to agreement on, as a party, is this "I don't want to defeat Karl Rove by sinking to his level" BULLSHIT.

Bill Clinton was RIGHT, on The Daily Show, when he appeared during the election to promote his book. Stewart asked him about the Rove brand of filthy politics and he replied "They do what they do because it WORKS, and because they can GET AWAY WITH IT. When it no longer WORKS, or they no longer can GET AWAY WITH IT, they will do something ELSE."

So, GREAT. Wonderful, fine, upstanding, moral, WONDERFUL Democrats, you DON'T WANT to "sink to Rove's level." And yet Bush hasn't even taken his second term in office and there's talk of Rove running Bill Frist as a candidate in 2008, not to mention the Jeb Bush masturbatory musings that have surfaced since Bush has decided to send him with Colin "Dead Man Walking" Powell to Tsunami Town in his REGAL ABSENCE.

So, if "sinking to Rove's level" is NOT an option, I need ANOTHER option which DOES NOT INCLUDE bending over for Karl "Bloated Sack of PIG EXCREMENT" Rove and EVERYTHING he stands for.

If we're not going to "sink to his level," and he is in the game, we WILL have to do one of two things: DEFEAT him, or SURRENDER to him.

I DO NOT WANT a candidate in this party who is prepared to give a concession speech. I want a candidate who is prepared to defeat that FUCKING PIG KARL ROVE.

[Chimpanzee]

61. That must have been quite cathartic!

[Eye_on_prize]

33. "If voter fraud is PROVEN, and Bush remains in office, I really don't ..."

U Say, "If voter fraud is PROVEN, and Bush remains in office, I really don't understand what would be gained". Other than "Jack Shit" would be..

hmm.. I think it's called preserving legitimate democratic institutions in this country while there's still an opportunity to do so, and last i heard, Jan 6th is when it comes down , or not. Either way, the good fight by Conyers et. al. will be waged win or loose, as it must be. Are you seriously so oblivious of the importance of this struggle? Where have you been?

And why are you so concerned about having a pResident who is a proven criminal in the WH? Who's back do you have?

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

48. No, I'm not seriously so oblivious of the importance of this struggle

Where have I been? Right here, watching Karl Rove steal another election and George W. Bush plan his $40 million coronation.

Why am I so concerned about having a pResident who is a proven criminal in the WH?

WHAT?

Who's back do I have?

Again, WHAT? I have no frigging idea of what you're asking.

Preserving legitimate democratic institutions in this country while there's still an opportunity to do so is great.

Proving a point while George W. Bush remains in office proves a point. You cannot say that anything has been "preserved" if he remains in power.

[Eye_on_prize]

60. The point is this: Dems will relocate their backbone on Jan 6th, or not .

Why do you seem to be argueing for everyone to stand down, abandon Conyers in the crunch, and let this all get swept under the rug...because, after all, it's risky and * is likely to stay in office anyway?

Since you've been here so long, following all this on DU, seeing "Karl Rove steal another election and George W. Bush plan his $40 million coronation.", then why -pray tell- do you NOT want to use the Jan 6th opportunity to challenge the fraud and get the evidence into the public record. After all, this IS the Constitutionally prescribed means for contesting this clearly fraudulent election.

I mean no disrespect to you personally, only I must admit to being baffled as to your stated reasoning, summed up as "we may as well give up now, because Bush will probably stay in office anyway". This makes no sense to me, and I am just saying that.

Besides, no one really knows for sure what will happen if there is a forceful challenge to His Fraudulency's crimes against the voting public. This is a historic moment, which seems totally lost on you.

We DO know what will happen if it's not challenged forcefully. * and Rove win ...again ...and the awful truth is successfully hidden from public view...again.

I say fight for democracy tooth and nail, like a mother bear protecting her cubs. Works in the Ukraine. Works in the State of Washington. Might even work in DC on Jan. 6th. who knows? but we'll never know if we don't even dare to try.

[IStriker]

37. If fraud is PROVEN, Bush will not remain in office...

If he doesn't resign, he will be taken down by a combination of both parties. (something we could all agree on.)

[seriousstan]

4. He won't make it through the debates in the primaries.

[IStriker]

38. When is the last time the Democrats nominated a presidential loser...

in the following election?

[bobbieinok]

49. A Stevenson? 52 and 56?

[IStriker]

50. I think you get one shot in today's party and Kerry had his...

not much chance they will go back 50 yrs to the pattern they had then.

[Crunchy Frog]

5. I would not vote for him again if he were

the Democratic nominee, except if he were running as the incumbent President. I would just go ahead and vote third party. I sure as hell wouldn't donate any money to him after he failed to spend the money that I gave this time on actually trying to win the election.

If the Democratic party has a death wish, they can do it without me.

This is not meant to be a slam against him, just a simple statement of my position.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

53. My Sentiments Exactly! n/t

[Pithy Cherub]

7. With so many members of the CBC out front

on the electoral systems and its unfairness, it would be nigh to impossible to win without this core constituency. We are paying serious attention to who's in and who's out!

[pixelthief]

8. Just found this on drudge

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash2.htm

(snip)
KERRY SPEAKS: WHAT WENT WRONG

As for Kerry, says this adviser, "he thinks he's the frontrunner for '08 without recognizing that he needs to do some soul-searching. If he wants to come back, he'll have to come back as a different candidate, not the stiff who plays it safe and takes four sides of every issue."

Developing...

[Leilani]

11. Sure doesn't sound like Kerry thinks he won.

EOM

[New Earth]

13. THAT INTERVIEW IS FROM NOVEMBER 11TH

:hi:

[AmerDem]

15. screw Sludge

That story has been posted all over DU today. It's far from breaking as the man behind the story appeared on MTP this morning with this info. Hell, from what I've heard and read this article comes from a conversation on Nov. 11th.

[merh]

42. Okay, for the 4th thread today, let me point out that Drudge

msnbc, newsweek interview folks like to link or discuss in threads today is an OLD INTERVIEW. It was November 11, 2004, and a lot of crap has been uncovered since then. READ THE ARTICLE AND GET YOUR TIME LINE CORRECT.

My question is why is Newsweek/MSNBC/Drudge publishing it this late? Could it be they want to try to make Kerry look like a flip/flopper when the election is challenged on the 6th?

"Kerry has not given any formal interviews since his defeat. But on Nov. 11, nine days after the election, Kerry summoned a NEWSWEEK reporter to his house on Boston's fashionable Louisberg Square. He wanted to complain about NEWSWEEK's election issue, which he said was unduly harsh and gossipy about him, his staff and his wife. (The 45,000-word article, the product of a yearlong reporting project, is being published next week as a book, "Election 2004," by PublicAffairs.)"

[AmerDem]

46. and don't you love the way Newsweek

uses words like "his house on Boston's fashionable Louisberg Square" just to paint that elitist tag on him as they did through out the campaign? Another rag not worth reading!

[merh]

47. I cancelled my subscription but it hasn't run out yet. So I use it

as a soaker under the newspapers I have in my box for the 7 puppies that I am fostering. I love the ones with the weeds face on them, I let the little yugs (cross between pug and yorkies) poop and pee all over him!

(Side Note: What really bugs the crap out of me is those folks that don't want an intelligent man in the office, they want someone like themselves. - Not me, I want a smart, educated, worldly fellow who knows more than me and more than anyone else.)

[NVMojo]

9. Please ...wake up, this is not about Kerry ...it is much more complicated

than that. This has never been a simple process and nothing is going to change overnight when you face the entrenchment into the American conscience that the real evil-doers have succeeded in developing. One person will never be able to undo this. It will take a massive effort of brave and persistent individuals, not whiners who cry and blame the minute they don't get their ways.

[pamela]

10. He can count on my vote in '08.

I am voting for John Kerry in 2008 and he can take that to the bank. I'll write in his name if I have to.

[AmerDem]

17. Now if he could only get

the other 99.9% who voted for him he'd have a chance. Unfortunately guys like Wes Clark, Howard Dean and John Edwards aren't going to be so fresh to people and I'm sure will easily take a nomination over Kerry.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

54. He Has Less Chance Than Gore Did In 2004

If he won the election, and doesn't fight, he might as well enjoy his remaining time as a Senator. Perhaps he made some deal with the devil, and assured that his future races in MA would be fixed in his favor. But if he expects to have a prayer at the presidency, he's dumber than I thought.

[justinsb]

14. When was the last time

a Presidential candidate lost an election and came back to win the next one ?

[Horushawk]

16. Nixon lost to Kennedy

I know --- EUUWWWW:puke:

[Southsideirish]

18. Sorry. That account has been permanently closed.

Time to open a new one or better yet focus on 2006.

[Imajika]

19. Kerry is indeed looking at 2008

The fantasy that John Kerry has been secretly plotting to fight "the fraud" is utterly ridiculous. Kerry's campaign does not see any blatant fraud on a scale that might even possibly have cost him the election, and this is why I doubt if any notable Kerry strategists even take the issue seriously at all. I'd venture a guess that the only reason Kerry directed his legal team to do anything at all in terms of Ohio is to avoid totally offending that segment of the activist base whom just can't accept that Bush won.

Kerry will not contest, nor is it likely any other Senator will. This election is over as far as the Democratic Party leadership goes, and it is also done as far as the MSM is concerned. Jan 6th is being built up as a big deal on this forum, but for most of the rest of the country it is just a formality and ultimately a footnote regardless of what some House members do.

"Many if not most in our party will never forgive the guy."

Quite an exaggeration. Some won't forgive him. Most Democrats have long ago accepted the loss and while all are disappointed, I think very few will actually judge Kerry on the vote fraud issue - especially if he emerges as a leader and powerful opponent to Bush on other issues. Politicians can go from filthy goat to admirable hero in the eyes of activists in a matter of days. It's the "what have you done for me lately" syndrome.

Personally, I was for Edwards in the primaries. I liked Kerry, but worried he wouldn't connect well with voters. I never had any problem supporting Kerry in the general election, but over time he really grew on me to the point that I found myself very excited about what Kerry could accomplish as President. I went from just wanting to see Bush out as my primary thinking, to really believing that Kerry might achieve great things - basically went from ABB to very pro Kerry. It is too early to say at this point what the field will look like for 08', and unforseen events make speculating now a bit silly - but I could see myself getting behind an 08' Kerry candidacy and I am sure many, many others feel the same.

Imajika

[AmerDem]

21. I don't think it's an exaggeration at all.

Regardless of what happens on the 6th and I'm assuming and have assumed hardly anything, the story of voting fraud isn't going away. Many average everyday people don't follow politics this close and we have almost zero mention from the MSM but eventually it's going to connect and when it does so will Kerry's empty promises.

[Imajika]

24. Really?

"the story of voting fraud isn't going away."

Is that so? Aside from forums and sites on the Internet, and amongst a few activist groups, how is this even a story at all now? The Democratic Party isn't even paying much, if any, attention to it. The MSM doesn't take it seriously in the least.

You say it won't go away, but what about Florida 2000? I don't recall that being an issue in 2004. Did Kerry even mention it? Perhaps he did, but not very much. And how soon we forget 2002. Florida was supposed to be a massive rallying cry for Democrats, yet we got beat in that cycle and even lost to Jeb in Florida by a landslide.

For some the issue won't die and those people will continue batting around conspiracy theories, but the vast majority of Americans and the Democratic Party itself will long since have moved on. If no real evidence emerges of this voting fraud conspiracy, it will eventually be completely dismissed by all but the most hardcore tin foil hatters.

Imajika

[AmerDem]

43. yes, that is so

The story wont go away because of the same groups you site,forums and sites on the Internet, and amongst a few activist groups will make sure it wont go away. Everyone would love a point A to point B path but sometimes to get to finish line you have to take the long way around. With no MSM coverage or the slightest word from any so called party leaders Internet groups along with people like Jackson and Arenbek will fill the void, as they are now.

[saracat]

52. It is begginning to pop up on MSM and

I don't know who you are speaking to but the precinct committee persons in my precinct are pretty frosted and they won't forgive the Party let alone Kerry. In fact ,more are angry at the Party than at Kerry and we will lose a lot if the Senators don't stand up. I know this for a fact in my neck of the woods. And the Dems can kiss their ass goodbye as far as donations are concerned. I am an officer and I tore up my yearly membership request. I want to see what they do for us first! Any Dem might stand a bats chance in hell if they don't stem the tide.

[Snivi Yllom]

66. correct, you amde me think a little differently

"I'd venture a guess that the only reason Kerry directed his legal team to do anything at all in terms of Ohio is to avoid totally offending that segment of the activist base whom just can't accept that Bush won."

I typically thought Kerry has some lawyers making token public gestures so he keep the 'appearance' he is indeed interested in election reform and investigating irregularities. He is already thinking 2008 and the Kerry Clinton showdown coming in the primaries.

Now I think it's a pathetic sloppy seconds that Kerry is tossing his very progressive supporters in an almost condescending manner. "Oh, here you go you, take this and shut up already".


You are also correct that most would most forgive him and embrace him.

[Joe Chi Minh]

20. He's more than wise enough

to know that this is all or nothing. Now. And if he stopped fighting, tooth and nail, whatever happens re the inauguration, he'd be toast.

And the reason he knows it, is because that's the way he would think, if he were an ordinary punter, and someone else in his position, as leader of the Dems, failed in the same way! *Particularly*, as there is a veritable plethora of incontrovertible evidence, and more emerging all the time.

Some of you neocons are just not able to tune in to the solidarity among Dem true believers. And you never will.

[AmerDem]

22. "Some of you neocons"

who are you referring to?

[Joe Chi Minh]

64. I didn't think you were one, if that's what you're thinking.

But there are plenty of naysayers who are in bad faith, i.e. out-and-out neocons. "Naysayers" is a bad choice of words, here. I mean those who criticise Kerry, not from a spirited desire to see some warfare taken to the neocons, but those who do so, to cause dissension and division among the Dems here.

[delphine]

55. I don't get this post.

John Kerry has already stopped fighting this "tooth and nail".

Just the fact that he hasn't used his 59 million votes as a platform to stand up against the suppression of the minority/student vote in Ohio is enough lack of fight for me. Showing outrage at the lack of voting machines and the logistical nightmare that kept thousands from voting doesn't even require him to yell "fraud" or in any way look like he needs tin foil under his cap. It just requires open eyes/ears and a voice.

In the meantime we are treated with these various pollyanna "Kerry's gonna rescue us" posts - if Kerry thinks this is all or nothing he's done everything to hide that fact from us, to the point of allowing deadlines to pass and court cases to be decided without speaking out about it.

One press conference that says that in 2004, no one should have to endure hours in the rain to vote, that it should be easier for people to vote in light of bureaucratic bungling and confusion - not more difficult.

Frankly, I'm getting concerned about "Dem true believers" because what's going to happen to you after 1/6/05 if the Senate dems don't swoop in like caped crusaders? Will you then bank on Kerry's "big strategy" being disruption of the inauguration? Or is it some BCCI-type investigation that will yield a forfeited WH in a year or two?

Solidarity among dems is a good thing. I don't think the "true believers" promote solidarity when they attack those of us who would love to believe something other than what our eyes and ears tell us but simply cannot. Then we are neocons? Or something equally as heinous?

Finally, if John Kerry DOES have a grand plan and it is unveiled on 1/6/05, I will still say that it was poorly conceived and executed because he and his spokespeople have done everything possible in the lead up to 1/6/05 to confirm in the public's mind the concept of bush as "winner" and Kerry as "loser" and anyone who thought different (us)as "a few fringe folk".

If this is a campaign to find and expose the truth, AND have people accept it as the truth, this was not the way to go about it.

My fantasy is 45 dem/indie senators challenging the electors along with the CBC et al. And two hours of debate punctuated by incontrovertible evidence (video) of folks waiting for hours in the rain and being unable to vote because of partisan aholes like Blackwell and Hood. And two houses of congress that can't ignore it anymore. And a real investigation - no one inaugurated until we're sure.

Nice dream.

[Joe Chi Minh]

63. I don't think it's a dream, Delphine.

I don't see at all why that should not eventuate.

But, while I retain my belief in Kerry's superior strategy, I would have gone at them all guns blazing, particularly for the suppression of the votes of the minority citizens, after Florida 2000, while Daschle couldn't seem to wait to cosy up to them. They should have given them the same treatment, they gave Bill Clinton - with interest.

Florida 2000 could simply not have happened in any other advanced democracy. The rich tapestry of voter fraud seemed breathtaking, indeed, surreal in its scope. But America is America, in all its glory and all its wretchedness.

That doesn't mean it would be politic for everyone else to keep a low profile and bide their time; or to stifle their outrage at the many ways in which both sections of the population, and the nation at large has been traduced, criminally oppressed, defrauded and and insulted.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AmerDem]

27. well for starters

I know what Kerry told us over and over about how he'd make sure every vote will be counted and we will count every vote. So far that hasn't happened. So far he hasn't lived up to his word. So far everybody but Kerry has been out in the open trying to get as much publicity for this as possible.

Now, is the fog starting to lift? Do you now have the slightest clue of what I was talking about? I sure hope so because minus a jack hammer I don't think I'd be able to get it across to you.

BTW, I supported Clark and then put that full support behind Kerry when he won the primary.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[molly]

31. Already then!

I have never in my life seen people as negative as you and your friends. Why bother posting? This is DEMOCRATICunderground!

[AmerDem]

34. * que the Twilight Zone theme*

WOW, LOL

edit.. had to add, it's too bad your opening insult and one or two afterwards were removed. The full effect of how you came into my thread to disrupt are taken away.

[New Earth]

45. damn

i missed it :(

[Imajika]

32. Wrong again...

"So far everybody but Kerry has been out in the open trying to get as much publicity for this as possible."

Oh please. Everybody but Kerry is trying to get publicity for this? Are you just making stuff up? Almost NO ONE in the Democratic Party is trying to get publicity for this. Where are the Clintons? Where are any Democratic Senators? Where are any Democratic Governors? Where are the overwhelming, vast majority of Congresspersons?

Don't try to play like this election conspiracy issue is taken seriously be everybody, and yet somehow Kerry won't get on board. This issue is taken seriously by mostly fringe groups, minor 3rd party leaders whom have a good reason to demogogue it to get any media attention they can, some activists and partisans whom can't accept a Kerry loss, and some bomb throwing House members who have exactly zero chance of losing their seats.

Whether there is merit to the election fraud issue aside, Kerry is most definately doing what the vast majority of Democratic officeholders have done which is to plan for the future and move on. It is totally wrong, and utterly unfair to say that "everybody but Kerry has been out in the open trying to get as much publicity for this as possible". You must know perfectly well that this statement is completely false.

Imajika

[AmerDem]

35. stay current

and involved. Try reading up on, Conyers, Waters, Jackson, Arenbeck, Cobb, Badnarick just to get yourself going.

[Imajika]

36. Try again...

My post quite adequately covered your examples.

You've utterly failed to justify your statement that "So far everybody but Kerry has been out in the open trying to get as much publicity for this as possible." You listed the name of 6 people who in absolutely no way constitute "everybody". I can only conclude that you simply can not back up what you said, infact I am sure you can't because it was flat out untrue.

Imajika

[AmerDem]

39. sadly you aren't even aware of what you wrote

"Almost NO ONE in the Democratic Party is trying to get publicity for this. Where are the Clintons? Where are any Democratic Senators? Where are any Democratic Governors? Where are the overwhelming, vast majority of Congresspersons?"

You turned this into people of the Democratic party not coming out, I however said in general term "everyone" and later gave examples of people from different parties.

I wont continue this ridicules back and forth with you. Read what I wrote. Understand I used general terms to get my initial point across and realize it's my opinion based on how I watched the voting fraud issue of 2004 play out.

[Imajika]

41. Your general terms were just wrong...

...and I called you on it, and you really can't defend it.

If you meant to say "lots of people" that is fine. My argument with your comments was your suggestion that some huge number of the Democratic party or its leaders are out trying to draw attention to the vote fraud issue. How can I assume that "everyone" means anything else? Putting it this way makes it sounds as if Kerry were isolated or doing something unusual by not addressing the issue which is utterly untrue.

Only a very small percentage of people are pushing the vote fraud conspiracy, and Kerry along with the vast majority of people and politicians is simply not one of them.

Imajika

[Clark2008]

40. Of course no one in the Democratic Party is getting in on this

They're too scared of the BFEE and the corporate media to have any balls.

I'm sorry, but I don't consider myself a "fringe" anything. In fact, I voted a split ticket this election year. However, I also saw all the lines in the minorities communities and I work in the tech sector and know how easy it is to program problems.

There is evidence that election fraud could easily have happened, but, without a court order or two, we won't get to the information to prove whether it *did* happen.

But, we can still show that election officials disenfranchised many minority voters by putting too few and malfunctioning machines in minority voting district. That is a fact.

[EndElectoral]

26. I wouldn't vote for him after his failure to strongly contest election

[Benhurst]

28. Kerry won't be able to run.

He'll be busy watching my back.

[righteous1]

44. He's going to run, he may not get the nomination but he wll

most definately run

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

56. What A Loser!

I'm sure if he ran, it would be for some ulterior reason. If he really thinks he has a snowball's chance in he** in '08, he's dreamin'.

[berniew1]

51. I think he has a much better chance in 2004 than 2008

The documentation of widespread fraud is likely to come out, and make it hard for even a Republican Congress to suppress the obvious. Fraud is a crime. And someone is guilty. Will the buck stop at the top, or be restricted to somewhere below?

Documentation for Ohio is at: http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19

and http://northnet.org/minstrel/alpage.htm

Documentation of the widespread Florida vote machine fraud is at: http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

57. A Fraud Is A Crime Only If You Get Caught

If there's a widespread cover-up, and complacency by the apparently "lame" democrats, then it'll just be another theory that went unproven, and unreported.

[delphine]

59. Nothing is difficult for the Repuke congress to suppress

There are photos and video and eyewitnesses of torture in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo - from congress? <<crickets>>

Ken Lay?
Valerie Plame?
Body Armor/Armored Humvees?
Stop Loss?
Social Security isn't really in trouble?
Halliburton fraud/war profiteering?
Phony budget numbers?
Lies about Medicare bill costs?


All of this is obvious, documented, well known by the MSM and the dems in congress.

and ignored by all of them.

The MSM and the Repukes and most of the dems in congress and everywhere else have no interest in any proof of voter fraud, either by computer manipulation or good old fashioned withholding of decent voting resources for black folks.

It's all there, it's all clear.

The MSM has the exit polls and knows full well that Kerry got screwed somewhere along the line. Yet they withhold the data from investigators.

They don't want to know.

It'll all be EASY for the Repukes to ignore - they already are. We're the only ones paying any attention.

[Freddie Stubbs]

58. Most of the party doesn't believe that the election was stolen

If they did, there would be more attention to this in the media and more people would show up to the protests.

[jsascj]

62. Fact is that if something isn't done about the fraud in this election

NO Democrat will EVER win again...EVER!

[glitch]

65. If Kerry fights election fraud, even if he loses he gets my vote. nt