A simple question about the Ohio county that lied about the warning.

[madfloridian]

The Ohio county that lied about a warning from Homeland Security, and closed the vote counting to the public and the press....what is the technical name for a "lie" about something that serious?

Why is that not considered illegal...that is.. fraud?

[bemis12]

1. It doesn't matter

There was no need to lockdown anything. Everyone knows one or two guys with a laptop computer were able to completely manipulate the vote- nationwide. Right?

[iconoclastNYC]

10. Yeah but you can't use the laptop on the pollbooks

All this stuff in Ohio warrants a congressional investigation. That is what the Senators should stand up for.

[jimfromthebronx10469]

2. if martha stuart can go to jail for lying..

then why cant election board members share the same jailcell with martha...a lie is a lie...:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :dem: :dem: :dem:

[FreepFryer]

3. The 'official silence' thus far about this egregious security vio

Is most telling.

It is a Federal violation (of Patriot Act I & II) to falsely declare a terror warning.

Therefore, Homeland Security being the overriding priority it is, I'm looking forward to the internment of the Warren County BOE without charges, due process or any expectation of release, in the 'Hefty Bag Hiltons' at Guantanamo and Ghraib.

Yes, the last paragraph was hyperbole.

[madfloridian]

7. Silence from our Democrats on this lying so blatantly is inexcusable.

There just is no excuse. That is a fraud perpetrated on the people of that county.

[FreepFryer]

8. Spare us the 'Morph Fraud into Anti-Dem' reframe.

<snark>
far more inexcusable and unforgivable than stealing it.
</snark>

Eyes on the prize folks - ANTI-FRAUD, not anti-Dem.

[madfloridian]

9. I do not separate the two anymore.

Sorry, this is just like it was in 2000.

[FreepFryer]

13. This is a holding action

And in a holding action, you don't execute your own troops and call game over, you put them on the front lines and hold your ground.

[KnowerOfLogic]

48. Well, who's going to combat *, if not the dems? The two are inseparable

right now. The dems are enabling the Bushistas. You can keep whining about * all you want; the point is that we need someone to fight the regime, and the dems aren't doing it!!!!! They must be replaced with someone who will.

[FreepFryer]

49. notice the freeplike use of the word 'whining' to reinforce a bad frame.

I have done nothing of the sort. Review my posts and you'll know my politics.

I similarly refuse to subconsciously accept your casting the issue as 'either/or'. It's not Bush/Kerry, it's not Dems/Repubs, it's not Dems/Greens, it's not Anti-Fraud/Anti-Dems.

It's ABOUT CIVIL RESPONSIBILITY/GREED.

Most (successful) politicians are cautious and self-interested in order to grow their power.

Most Dems are using that in ways to combat what is going on, to marginal success at best against a corrupt (and corrupting) corporatist regime - and a few aren't.

Like Zell Miller, for one.

I advocate we take responsibility for ourselves, our party and our situation, and make changes. Nothing more.

You however, seen to have conveniently bypassed that in favor of having them walk the plank. I see that as self-destructive, distracting behavior.

Na' Ga' Do It.

[KerryOn]

52. Hey this is good! Citizens Arrest!

"It is a Federal violation (of Patriot Act I & II) to falsely declare a terror warning."

If I recall didn't Bush, Chaney, Powel and Rice all clim that Sadam could be ready to launch in 45 mintes?

Isn't this a falsely declaired terror warning?

Lets make a citizens arrrest.

[Junkdrawer]

4. Why, you'd think we had two legal systems...

One for Republican Officials, and one for everyone else...

Oh wait. We do. Nevermind...

[Botany]

5. Because it was a repug lie.

If you lie about a blow job then you are a filthy pig .....
But if you lie to help the bush brownshirts then that is fine.

I guarantee you some members of the Warren county vote project ...(BOE folks, sheriff
dept people, poll works and so on) had a very Merry Xmas.

Remember Gov. Steroids lied about seeing Soviet tanks in his hometown and seeing
Nixon on T.V. and he got a standing ovation and not a peep from the press.

:kick:

[roseBudd]

27. The Warren County Homeland Security lie originated with Frank Young

Emergency Services Director of Warren County. I'd like to know what his bank balance is.

[m.standridge]

43. Thank you for reminding me of this guy

I recall that name from before.

What was this all about? Regardless of how it came to be expanded, it would appear to me to be something along the lines of an attempt at fraud, if not outright fraud.
Add to that, the Toledo break-in in late October '04, in which computer data, but no money, was stolen from the Dem office; the withholding of voting machines in Cuyahoga County for no readily-explicable reason; the TRIAD computer tech incidents in at least two counties; and the Auglaize County incident in which a computer was accessed by some individual without proper clearance (apparently).
Then you have all the statistical stuff.
The FBI denied they ever issued a terrorist warning.

[Broken Acorn]

6. Fraud only applies to Dems...just ask Rossi

The MSM only covers Repig related news.

Such as who Britney Spears marries, how Moral Values are the #1 priority of the 'silent majority' and how Kerry's 3 purple hearts were actually disgraceful.


I hate to say it, but it's starting to look more and more like the Third Reich.

[bunny planet]

11. Yes, I think this just might turn out to be the fraud that breaks the

Elephant's back. It is clearly a violation of their own Patriot Act. Let's hope Conyers is really highlighting this incident to the Senators he's approached.

[KansDem]

12. I don't know...good question...

I've wondered about the GOP mob that closed down the legal recount in Florida in 2000...no one was arrested.

And now we have a false security warning to close off vote counting to the public in Ohio in 2004...and still no one arrested.

But then, I used to think to lie while giving the State of the Union address and involving this country in an unnecessary war at the cost of thousands of lives would be tantamount to impeachment...yet not only does Bush get re-elected but his party picks up seats in Congress. And he's declared "Christian" and "moral" at the same time...!!!

You can't think this shit up for a Hollywood movie; and even if you did, no one would believe your story!

It boggles my mind! :crazy:

[DoYouEverWonder]

14. You do know that the Warren Board of Elections

planned for the shut down the week before in a closed door session?

[FreepFryer]

15. Most unusual, that. Don't you think? n/t

[DoYouEverWonder]

18. Yeah, like al Qaida sends invitations

so that you can plan ahead?

[FreepFryer]

20. I know - it's almost like the facts don't match the 'terror claim'.

I mean, you arrange for a week to meet in secret, then that day you announce an FBI-based terror claim (bogus)?

Hmmmmmmmmm. I think THAT's in the Conyers report somewhere.

Stay tuned! Believe in your power to be rational, despite all the hatred!

[DoYouEverWonder]

21. Yes it is in Conyers report

Here's the first published report about the planning for the lockdown -

November 5, 2004

Warren County Emergency Services Director Frank Young said he had recommended increased security based on information received from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Bureau of Investigation in recent weeks.

Commissioners made the security decisions in a closed-door meeting last week, but didn't publicize the restrictions that were made until after polls closed.

"If we were going to make a judgment, we wanted to err on the side of caution," Commissioner Pat South said Thursday. "... Hindsight is 20-20. There was never any intent to exclude the press.


http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/11/05/loc_warrenvote05.html


I know Conyers knows about this article.

It blows my mind, when some people say that stuff like this is not fraud. It is not just one outrageous incident. It is one outrageous incident after another, that make it is apparent there is a widespread and a pervasive pattern of behavior here.


BTW: Why do you keep accusing me of things that I am not?

[FreepFryer]

22. Did I accuse you? How? If so, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to. n/t

[DoYouEverWonder]

23. I'll take you at your word

in a thread from yesterday you accused someone of being a Dem Basher and I couldn't tell if you were referring to me or not? I did ask and didn't get a response. But things fly so fast around here it is easy to miss stuff or misunderstand each other.

If you were referring to someone else please accept my apology.

[zapped 1]

37. I believe it's his first question in the demand letter nt

[euler]

33. I wonder why the democrats on the board allowed it to happen ?

[FreepFryer]

34. More important than why a fraudulent 'FBI warning' was claimed? Nope.

Not even close.

[DoYouEverWonder]

40. Who knows what kind of Democrats they are

or if any of them are related to Zell Miller?

[zapped 1]

45. "psst. I'll give you 30 grand to register as a democrat.." nt

[DoYouEverWonder]

46. I bet you get 100's of Repugs to do it for free

They do it around here all the time because we are DEM stronghold. A lot of crossover registering just to vote in the primaries and screw things up. Not to mention the Repugs that run as Dems, just because they would never get elected if they showed their true colors, despite the fact that most people see thru them anyway. Plus a lot of positions are so called 'non-partisan", so things can really get confusing.

[m.standridge]

44. very unclear they had any input ahead

and the nominal Dems on county boards, owe their jobs to Blackwell. As Fitrakis put it "They serve at his behest and owe him their jobs."
The key here may be the wait time while id's were checked.

[Andy_Stephenson]

16. I will have the results of a single precinct audit for

Warren up later today. Keep your eyes peeled for it.

[madfloridian]

19. Andy, is that the county that lied about the warnings?

Thanks, and glad you are back.

[roseBudd]

28. Yes, Google Warren County and Cincinnati Enquirer to read about

the bogus terror warnings

[madfloridian]

17. Again....why isn't this fraud? Already proved.

:shrug:

[DoYouEverWonder]

24. Because we still can't find a white stain on a blue dress?

We need to get someone to give W a blowjob and then maybe we can get Congress to impeach him?

[FreepFryer]

25. Exactly right.

Sex sells better than coup d'etats.

If someone leaks Condi's little Butterfly to the Greens and it's got Bush residue, he's toast.

In the meantime, pass out the armbands and burn the books. Winter's coming.

[DoYouEverWonder]

32. Mmm, there was that little surgury Condi had last month?

Want to bet she had to have an abortion?

Imagine W's and Condi's 'love' child? :puke: It would be the sequal to Rosemary's Baby.

[sepia_steel]

36. Aw come on, DYEW.

This doesn't help our cause (or our gag reflex) :puke: LOL

[DoYouEverWonder]

38. I'm not the one who calls

W my husband.

[Mojorabbit]

26. What makes no sense

is that if they were afraid of terraists, why only lockdown the place only after voting was done?

[roseBudd]

29. and not warn the elementary shool near by?

[DoYouEverWonder]

31. Oh your kidding?

We need the name of the school? I'd love to see a few outraged parents on TV screaming about not getting warned.

[euler]

30. The first question is...

...was the lie certainly established. Do we know who said it ? Did that person know it was not true at the time it was said ? Was the person who allegedly lied one of the democrats on the board or one of the republicans ?

[FreepFryer]

35. The answer to all the questions 'cept the last is 'Yes' (not sure yet)

And has been well-documented, first by reporter Erica Solvig, and then by others.

From the Dec 13-15 Forums, and a number of MSM pieces.

In Warren County, where election officers declared a homeland security emergency on Election Day, and barred reporters and others from watching the vote count, it now has been revealed that county employees were told the previous Thursday they should prepare for the Election Day lockdown. That disclosure suggests the lockdown was a political decision, not a true security risk. Moreover, statements also describe how ballots were left unguarded and unprotected in a warehouse on Election Day, and they were hastily moved after county officials received complaints
Source: http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/voteforum2.html
Source video: http://www.jardimed.com/video

LEBANON - Warren County officials, facing scrutiny of their decision to lock down the administration building on election night, say they were responding to a terrorist threat that ranked a "10" on a scale of 1 to 10.

The information, which Commissioner Pat South said was previously deemed confidential, is coming out a week after the public was barred from viewing the Warren County vote count. The Ohio Secretary of State's office doesn't know of any other county in the state to impose such a restriction.

County officials initially said they feared that having reporters and photographers present could interfere with the ballot counting. They subsequently cited homeland security concerns.

Now, they say an FBI agent told them that Warren County ranked a "10" on a terrorism scale. However, state and federal homeland security officials said Tuesday they were unaware of any specific threat against the county.

Source: http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/11/05/loc_warrenvote05.html

"If we were going to make a judgment, we wanted to err on the side of caution," Commissioner Pat South said Thursday. "... Hindsight is 20-20. There was never any intent to exclude the press. "We were trying to protect security."

Source: http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/11/10/loc_warrenvote10.html

[DoYouEverWonder]

39. Warren Co Emergency Services Director Frank Young

admits to warning the Warren Co Board of Elections. There should be phone records of the calls that he makes and recieves.


Warren County Emergency Services Director Frank Young said he had recommended increased security based on information received from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Bureau of Investigation in recent weeks.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/11/05/loc_warrenvote05.html

[FreepFryer]

41. Yes indeedy.

One of many live issues under investigation.

There was no '10-out-of-10' (in South's words) FBI Homeland Security warning to Warren County. And nothing less would have given them appearances of a rationale to lock down the counting that way.

I hope those investigating don't just throw up their hands, say "bush won", and walk away from what is obviously criminal behavior because of the overwhelming likelihood that the recount will be termed 'legal' on Jan 6. regardless.

[DoYouEverWonder]

42. Here's some more about the people behind the lock down

Erica Solvig is the reporter from Ohio who wrote the above mentioned article.



AMY GOODMAN: Can you summarize your piece in today's Cincinnati Enquirer?

ERICA SOLVIG: Well, the story that ran today is reiterating the County Commissioner?s stance of Homeland Security concerns. They say, as you have already mentioned, that the county was facing a terrorist threat that ranked 10 on a scale of 1 to 10. We talked to several officials with the homeland security department as well as the FBI. They knew of no increased terrorism concerns in Warren County in particular, and just, again, raising the continuing concerns regarding Homeland Security and being locked out of the building. The primary focus of all of the articles has been on, you know, the First Amendment issues and the open government issues that are raised when the public and the media are locked out of the process.

<snip>

AMY GOODMAN: We're taking a look at Keith Olbermann's blog from MSNBC. He was quoting the statement given out by Warren County Commissioner Pat South to MSNBC. You have also been quoting her a great deal. It's quite a remarkable quote. It says, ?About three weeks prior to elections, our emergency services department had been receiving quite a few pieces of correspondence from the office of Homeland Security on the upcoming elections. These memos were sent out statewide, not just to Warren County, and they included a lot of planning tools and resources to use for Election Day security.? Pat South went on to say, ?In a face-to-face meeting between the FBI and our director of Emergency Services, we were informed that on a scale from 1 to 10, the tri-state area of southwest Ohio was ranked at a high 8 to a low 9, in terms of security risk. Warren County in particular was rated at 10, 10 being the top highest risk. Pursuant to the Ohio-revised code, we followed the law to the letter that basically says no one is allowed within 100 feet of a polling place except for voters, and that after the polls closed, the only people allowed in the Board of Elections area where votes are being counted are the Board of Election members, judges, clerks, poll challengers, police, and that no one other than those people can be there while tabulation is taking place.? And yet, Erica Solvig, now the Department of Homeland Security and FBI are denying that they ever talked about a security risk here?

ERICA SOLVIG: They're saying that they were not aware of any increased security risk in Warren County on Election Day. The county has declined to give us the agent's name who told them this, because they haven't talked to this agent - this is an FBI agent - anytime recently. But the Homeland Security officials that we have talked to in the area, as well as the FBI, are unaware of any increased security risk on Election Day. Again, the primary concern was being locked out of a public building on a night when the entire nation was watching, waiting for the results.

<snip>

AMY GOODMAN: One more time, as you point out in today's Cincinnati Inquirer piece, Pat South the commissioner describes the FBI agent coming to her?

ERICA SOLVIG: The FBI agent apparently spoke with some county officials who then relayed the information to the commissioners. He actually spoke directly to Frank Young, who is quoted in the article as well.


http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/10/1536254

[madfloridian]

47. This really bothers me. Intended to deceive.

This one incident in itself is enough to be called fraud, because it shows intent to deceive.

But that is just my simple mind.

:silly:

[KerryOn]

50. Probably Guilty Of Inducing Panic

Under Ohio law it is a firts degree misdemeanor.

a) No person shall cause the evacuation of any public place, or otherwise cause serious public inconvenience or alarm, by doing any of the following:

(1) Initiating or circulating a report or warning of an alleged or impending fire, explosion, crime or other catastrophe, knowing that such report or warning is false;

(2) Threatening to commit any offense of violence;

(3) Committing any offense, with reckless disregard of the likelihood that its commission will cause serious public inconvenience or alarm.

(b) Division (a) hereof does not apply to any person conducting an authorized fire or emergency drill.

(c) Whoever violates this section is guilty of inducing panic, a misdemeanor of the first degree. If inducing panic results in physical harm to any person, economic harm of five hundred dollars ($500.00) or more, if the public place involved in a violation of this section is a school, or if the violation pertains to a purported, threatened or actual use of a weapon of mass destruction, inducing panic is a felony and shall be prosecuted under appropriate State law.

[KerryOn]

51. Make that a felony, I did not read it all.

to a purported, THREATENED or actual use of a WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION, inducing panic is a felony and shall be prosecuted under appropriate State law.