Keep your heads

[WilliamPitt]

We are not finished yet.

“Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well, but the certainty that something makes sense regardless of how it turns out.”

- Vaclav Havel

[Pachamama]

1. Thank you Will....I couldn't agree more...

:hi:

And ultimately, we will prevail and the "Truth" will be set free...it always does....

[purduejake]

2. Thanks, Will!

People like you give us hope!

[proud patriot]

3. Exactly

it's about being able to sleep at night knowing
one's part of the solution .

[bush_is_wacko]

4. Keeping my head, but man things are heating up

What is your take on the ethics thing? It looks to me that the Republicans are trying to take away our right to investigate their criminal behavior in a BIG way. How can this be a good thing?

[politicasista]

5. Thanks Will

It's been crazy around here today.

[Not a Sheep]

6. Can you clarify your post please......

.... "We are not finished yet."

The statement is very vague. If you could clarify what you mean, that would be great.

[keepthemhonest]

11. Always

questioning people. I guess some people need things explained and clarified so many different ways and they still don't believe them.

That is all I have to say about that.

[WilliamPitt]

12. I mean it isn't Thursday afternoon yet

[Not a Sheep]

14. Yeah, I understand but....

... your post seems to infer that it isn't over and we have a chance of Kerry actually winning. I didn't want to just assume that is what you meant so that is why I asked hoping you would be more specific.

[troubleinwinter]

20. It is for him to imply, and you to infer. WRP has implied nothing

but to chill. Try it.

[Not a Sheep]

37. What?.......

I don't want to assume or infer anything from his post so I simply politely asked him if he could please clarify what he meant specifically (if anything). I didn't know that was such a crime to do.

I'm not really sure why you feel the need to jump in and tell me to chill. What's the big deal? There is none.

[troubleinwinter]

40. You chose to infer something that was never implied.

"your post seems to infer that it isn't over and we have a chance of Kerry actually winning."

I did not call your post a "crime". I did not "jump" in. I did not say there was a "big deal". I did, however, suggest that you chill.

[Not a Sheep]

47. Ah, no .......

I'm not choosing to infer something as you say. I simply asked a question. Read my posts again. It says "seems to infer" and goes on to say "I didn't want to just assume that is what you meant so that is why I asked..."

So I don't understand why it is that I was specifically asking him a question and then for some reason you "jump in" and start posting to me when my question wasn't to you and didn't involve you.

[troubleinwinter]

49. I infer that you mean

that the rooster is a co-conspirator with the sheep.

Even though you did not imply it.

Just asking if that's what you meant, because I wouldn't want to just assume that's what you meant.

I sure hope that nobody here sees fit to "jump in" to our very private conversation here, because it does not involve any other participants in DU.

[Not a Sheep]

51. See posts #'s 48 and 50............ Enough said. /eom

[troubleinwinter]

54. I see no evidence of the quote "we have a chance of Kerry winning" in

#50 post link. It certainly was not implied in original post. What it means, I don't know. I am not inferring anything yet.

Edited quote for accuracy

[Not a Sheep]

72. Post #44- What is William Pitt's reply to me? /eom

[troubleinwinter]

84. His reply is a quote of your words, when you inferred

meaning in his original post, and a link to a detailed article for you to read.

[Not a Sheep]

48. Hmmmm,......

......

Not A Sheep: "... your post seems to infer that it isn't over and we have a chance of Kerry actually winning."

troubleinwinter: "You chose to infer something that was never implied."

William Pitt (clarifying his post for me): "we have a chance of Kerry actually winning"

[ClassWarrior]

43. And she corrected your grammar.

<LOL>

NGU.

[WilliamPitt]

44. "we have a chance of Kerry actually winning"

See:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=233795&mesg_id=233795

[Not a Sheep]

50. So that IS what you were inferring.. Thank you for clarifying for me. /eom

[ClassWarrior]

MTV.

Some people just don't get it.

NGU.

[troubleinwinter]

66. Everybody gets it, don'tcha think?

It's my birthday. I don't wish to put up with BS today.

[ClassWarrior]

70. Of course they do.

I'm just playing with my food. Can't let seito get all the fat, juicy ones...

NGU.

[seito]

75. lol n/t

[New Earth]

52. are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet?

you remind me of one of those kids on a family trip :hi:

[seito]

55. Category 6?

[ClassWarrior]

63. Definitely a category.

<LOL>

NGU.

[troubleinwinter]

64. Whew... I already had to see one again today that needs a category.

the 500 post 'perpetual crying weepy eyed depressed poor abandoned baby'. Been whinin' for weeks.

It's my birthday today. I can play if I want.

:party:

[me b zola]

88. Happy Birthday!

:party:

[troubleinwinter]

90. Awww... thanks!!! I am old, but I am tough and I'm good and I'm leftie..

[keepthemhonest]

95. troubleinwinter

there are some fights that need fighten and you fought and you won,on your birthday noetheless. Some "things can not go ignorance(I mean ignored)" hee hee.

thanks for fighting the good fight !!!!!!!!


Excellent form! have a happy birthday. Your b-day present will be arriving two days later. what it is I am not telling. Hint: Kerry on



Kerry won get the flock out of here

[Not a Sheep]

76. Thx for your 2 cents. Really just makes you look childish though. /eom

[seito]

80. Hmmm...

Interesting show. It has definitely been an interesting show all day. I think Rev and CW need to call to order a meeting of the DUDQ.

[ClassWarrior]

81. Okay, your wish is my command...

:)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x234350

NGU.

[seito]

106. Thanks CW

:hug: Just the prescription I needed

[troubleinwinter]

86. Need some entertainment til Thurs. A game of Hide 'N Seek with the kids.

[New Earth]

93. omg dude

you PUSH people to become childish, and you know it. you really aren't fooling anyone :hi:

[keepthemhonest]

97. you got that right faye

poster thinks he is on a ship of fools and he's the freaking captain.

LOL

[keepthemhonest]

7. will

what is your take on what happens if one senator does contest, what will happen next? what are the different scenarios?Thanks

[VioletLake]

8. Great quote. Thanks, Will. :) n/t

[ClassWarrior]

9. Beautiful quote. That sums it up.

NGU.

[johnnie]

10. I was just going to put it up on Ebay

But, I'll hang on to it for a little while longer.

[Shalom]

13. "God won't have his work done by cowards"

from "Self-Reliance", Ralph Waldo Emerson

[EFerrari]

18. Yes! And, "my life is for itself, not for spectacle" . Two mantras

for us to keep in our backpockets this week.

[Shalom]

23. A hero is no braver than an ordinary man, ...

but he is braver five minutes longer.

Mantra 3 from RWE

[WilliamPitt]

26. RWE?

[Patsy Stone]

28. Ralph Waldo Emerson n/t

[EFerrari]

29. Maybe we need a daily from SR. Good thinking. n/t

[Eye_on_prize]

34. "If I knew the world was ending tomorrow, I'd still plant a tree today"

-St. Francis of Assisi

[SaveAmerica]

15. Did you receive the e-mail I sent you?

I'm not sure who to ask that question to, but I don't want to let it drop just in case there's something there. Is there someone else I should ask? Thanks.

[EFerrari]

16. There is justice in the world, more powerful than any petty

criminal or political hack. Hang in, DUers. You probably won't believe this, but a time will come when you'll get to see exactly the justice we've all been working for. It will happen -- no matter how much we worry, squabble or despair.

[keepthemhonest]

17. I hope that time is thursday n/t

[EFerrari]

19. : )

[hiley]

21. You have

a great spirit and thank you for the quote !:)

[evolvenow]

22. We just may Evolve yet!! Go Will, Go!! Thanks.

[m.standridge]

24. thank you

[OKthatsIT]

25. I always prepare myself for the worst letdown...

that ways...if it turn out better, im pleasantly surprised

[stellanoir]

27. Havel is one of the most

astute and eloquent writers and thinkers of our time. He was a poet, a playwrite, a prisoner, and a president. Most certainly, whatever he does in the future will begin with a "p".

As for keeping our heads, I'm reminded of the line from the Queen of Hearts who says, "either you or your head must be off at once."

It was far funnier before all these god awful beheadings became the all the rage. Oh yeah. . .I forgot "the world is safer". . .right?

"Winning the hearts and minds" so ineptly, inspired some to separate some of our hearts from our minds. It's truly too sad.

Okay. . .here's a better thought. . .it's a quotation from a very low stairwell in England I saw years ago. . ."Mind your head."

[dogindia]

30. TY....will. will.

[EFerrari]

31. A short story I think you'll like while we try not to let our heads

explode.

My husband and I write comedy, and last month began to write a column for The Street Sheet here in San Francisco. The paper is printed and given to our homeless neighbors to sell, as in, this is a job.

Well, this was plastered all over SF last month, and how fitting that it was done by the people most vulnerable to the whims of MendacityCentral:


Street Sheet December 2004

Four More Years Of The Wrong President

It's obvious from the vote fraud and the "irregularities" (nice euphemism for they screwed us) that Kerry won the electoral votes. But for now it's time to bring back all my Bush jokes. I voted for Kerry because everyone said they wanted a strong and courageous leader, and according to the Repugnicans, Kerry shot himself five times to win those medals. That takes courage. He put shrapnel up his own ass, and that takes guts, doesn't it? Then he pussied out and quit the morning after the "election". Don't get me started on Kerry, I'm more mad at him than I am at Bush.

Bush "won" on God, gays, and guns. Also by saying the word "terror" one thousand times. Terror alerts always help during an election. Like they ever told us what to do when it turns orange -- wear a hat? The people who invented the terror alerts are the same ones who told us baby boomers to get under our desks during air raid drills. "Duck and cover". How was that supposed to work? Were we going to be protected by that layer of old gum?

Bush wants the bring democracy to the whole world but couldn't find the earth on a globe.

He and the religious right want to ban abortion because all human lifed is sacred to them...until it's born. Then you're on you're own. We cut the cord, now get a job, you little lazy bald bum. We have just the spot for you in our "all volunteer" army -- no child left behind, remember?

It's ironic that Bush is against stem cell research because it's his last chance to get a brain. I blame Laura Bush. She's a teacher, you think she would have gotten him Hooked On Phonics or something. Get him some flash cards. He doesn't want us teaching evolution because he knows he didn't quite make it all the way.

He's not the main villain, we know it's Dick Cheney, who even looks like a James Bond villain. I bet there's
a piranha tank in his office. All the people who work for Bush are from the Nixon administration and the Reagan administration. I blame medical technology. These old fuckers should be dead by now. They must live off the blood of virgins and small children.

Not only is Bush the worst President in history, he's the worst one on the enivronment. He has a bill to allow more polllution called the Clea Skies Act. Who cares how much poison is in it as long as it's clear? He's allowing logging of national forests and calls it the Healthy Forests Initiative. He said it would help prevent forest fires. Sure, you can't have a forrest fire if all the friggin' trees are gone. They said it would create "a natural, uncrowded environment". The birds have so much more elbow room when they're all sitting on the ground. I guess they're going to level all the mountains and call that the Better View Bill. He says the jury is out on global warming. It's sunny in San Francisco all year round now, are you telling me something isn't screwed up? They also say they don't believe in the hole in the ozone layer. Come on, we all know there's a hole the size of Australia over the North Pole. I saw a National Geographic special -- the penguins had tan liness. They had sunblock on their beaks. If they ever do admit to a problem, they're probably going to try to take the rest of the ozone in the world and just comb it over the top.

All Bush's projects have those bogus names. But they actually do make sense: it's equal and opposite implementation. "Help America Vote" -- we just saw what that meant. What keeps me up at night is "Restore the Constitution" -- can't wait to see what Alberto "Abu Graib" Gonzalez will do with that one. Hope there's cable tv at Gitmo!

Bush hasn't done anything right, but it doesn't matter. Because all his zombies keep saying what a great success he is. Like the claim that we won the war in Iraq. Mission accomplished! The Iraqis are now free -- free to form an anti-Western Islamic theocracy. We've also freed 50,000 or 100,000 Iraqis from life on Earth.

What does Bush know about war? His father was a war hero, we know because CNN keeps running a special on him called "A Flyboy's Story". They're going to do one on Bush's Vietnam years called "Fulll Dinner Jacket". You can't have a reglious war -- it will never end. You can't bomb a belief. There are good Muslims, and there are fanatic fundamentalist terrorist Muslims, and they're winning, because there are millions of young male Muslims who have never had a job, never seen a woman, and never been laid. They just get them together and say, like the Taliban did: "You can't have alcohol. You can't have televison. You can't have music. You can't have photography. You can't fly a kite,. And if you ever get a wife, she has to dress like a beekeeper. Now, who wants to strap dynamite to themsleves and die?" "Me first! Take me, please!!!" You take away my TV for three days and I'll blow myself up.

Congress just passed the new spending bill -- 3,000 pages that nobody read. Nice going. They've funded Mars research but couldn't fund childcare for families trying to get off welfare. Maybe Bush is planning to send poor people to Mars. (What would you prefer, another four years of Bush or roughing it in outer space?)

I hope before Bush invades Iran, he invades the United States. Then WE can have health care, education, jobs, and free elections. Wouldn't that be nice?

D & B Ferrari

[OKthatsIT]

33. ROFLOL

...omg....that was good!

[hippiegranny]

57. this is hilarious!!!!

thanks for sharing... I laughed out loud at this:

...There are good Muslims, and there are fanatic fundamentalist terrorist Muslims, and they're winning, because there are millions of young male Muslims who have never had a job, never seen a woman, and never been laid. They just get them together and say, like the Taliban did: "You can't have alcohol. You can't have televison. You can't have music. You can't have photography. You can't fly a kite,. And if you ever get a wife, she has to dress like a beekeeper. Now, who wants to strap dynamite to themsleves and die?" "Me first! Take me, please!!!" You take away my TV for three days and I'll blow myself up...

[EFerrari]

59. then you're good not to explode for a while.

[keepthemhonest]

98. this is great thanks for much for sharing

I hope you don't mind but I am going to email it to everyone in my email box. Maybe this will get sent all over the world and back. thanks

[EFerrari]

103. good. then you too may be out of head exploding danger :)

[KoKo]

32. Nothing makes sense these days...and nothing will after Thursday either

Done with "parsing" our Dems... They either stand up...or we know where they lie.

[roenyc]

35. whatever happens we know how it Nov 2nd went

down. and no one can tell me this was a fair election. so i am keeping hope alive.

someone just called C-span and said the congress is acting in the first stages of fascism. i almost cheered! he phrased his statement well, much better then i am doing. he said what is happening now with the ethics committee (he didn't mention voting) and changing rules to suit one party is just what happened in Germany. an older gentlemen and not at all hysterical. great caller.

[DemReadingDU]

42. I heard this caller on C-span too

He was a great caller, very articulate.

[Eye_on_prize]

36. Will, what do you make of the machinations re: rule changes today on Cspan

SEE
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1119054#1121248
AND
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1119054&mesg_id=1121251

How doest all this effect the Jan 6th challenge, if at all? i.e. will rule changes take effect immediately, and therefore be in force Jan6? if so, how will this effect Conyers ability to carry this fwd? do you know?

[Snivi Yllom]

38. of course we are not finished, but the election is over

Kerry lost.

Let's not continue to give false hope that Kerry won or had the election stolen from home.

There is no evidence to suggest otherwise, and I must disagree with you that there was overwhelming disenfranchisement of minority voters in Ohio.

There were problems all over the US, not limited to Ohio that yes, likely caused the legal votes of some to be discarded, miscounted, or somehow ignored. IMO, 99.99% of these erroneous actions were in fact mistakes, either through the voters actions or through the negligence of those running the elections. Could some of these votes have been intentionally disenfranchised? In a country of 280 million, it's almost a certainty.

The point is to focus on election reform in a manner that does not hang a conspiracy kook fringe albatross around the necks of those who want to solve the problems that will never be fully eliminated from elections in a nation with 280 million citizens.

[WilliamPitt]

39. Exactly

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x233795

[Snivi Yllom]

41. welllllll

By calling for a Senator to stand and contest the election the results without a legitimate reason to do so will bring scorn and heavy political baggage ahead of upcoming Congressional fights where political firepower will be needed. This you wrote in your sample form letter for sending to Senators.

Where you are wrong is in excerpt:

"A Senator must stand up with Conyers and open the door to testimony on this election in both chambers of Congress. A Senator must stand up so a national dialogue on how we run elections is created and carried forward."

To me this seems to be the worst possible time and place to propose serious election reform. Why must election reform be fought at this moment in time, when to do so will in fact hurt the credibility of election reform? There is far less reason to be perturbed about the election results of 2004 when compared to the razor thin results from Florida in 2000.

This is not a fight worth fighting at this time in the manner you propose in your letter. The net result will be a loss, not a gain for voters. The time and location for that is in Congress after the election is certified.

[Qutzupalotl]

56. We have a minority in Congress.

So how would we even bring it up?

No, the proscribed time is January 6. I strongly disagree that it will create bad blood. Did Gore hurt Kerry by asking for a recount?

[Snivi Yllom]

71. Sorry. But election reform is a smart issue to pursue in congress

It's a win win, and you would be surprised by the amount of GOP support you would receive as they dont want to be on the wrong side of that issue.

Gore did not contest the election of 2000 which came down to only a few hundred votes in Florida. This time it's over 100,000 votes in Ohio.No, the time and place for meaningful reform is not January 6th.

[Qutzupalotl]

79. I would be surprised if any support were given at all.

It's not a win-win as it stands now. It's a win-lose in their favor. Why would they be motivated to change anything without a little fire under their asses?

[Peace Patriot]

102. Ya know, Snivi Yllom, I've never said this to a DU blogger before, but

you're last three posts in this forum have been a load of crap. Let me explain:

"of course we are not finished, but the election is over..."
"Kerry lost."

Prove this to me. Give me election numbers, tell me their source and how you have verified that these voting numbers are real.

We cannot say for 100% certain whether Kerry lost or won, because the election was so bloody NON-transparent that NOTHING ABOUT IT is verifiable. It was a fraud going in: Bush "Pioneers" and B/C campaign chairs manufactured the voting equipment, sold it to the states, pocketed a whole lot of taxpayers money, and kept the source code as secret, proprietary information--no public review--with paperless voting in one third of the country. Tom Delay strong armed Democrats to PREVENT verifiable voting and all other oversight measures.

A total crock, going in. Do you understand? There is NO WAY to verify this election.

And when we look at ALL OTHER EVIDENCE...
from the pre-election polls (tied, in opinion polls weighted to Republicans, with Zogby calling a Kerry win),
to Dem new voter registration (57% to Repub 41%),
to active, visible, massive Dem GOTV with thousands of volunteers,
to Kerry's spontaneous big enthusiastic crowds (vs. Bush's dead, managed affairs),
to Kerry (smart, stately) vs. Bush (barely coherent) in the debates,
to the high optimism of Kerry workers on election day,
to even Karen Hughes thinking Bush had lost and telling him so,
to Exit Polls saying Kerry won,
to the networks "adjusting" the Exit Polls to fit the Republican controlled (proprietary source code) electronic central vote tabulator "results" on everybody's TV screens late in the day,
to 3 major studies by top statisticians giving impossible odds of Bush/Kerry discrepancy in the Exit Polls and in OTHER election data (f.i., paper vs. electronic in 3 Dem FLA counties--100,000 to 300,000 phantom votes for Bush),
to many other statistical studies (f.i., on North Carolina--6% difference in Bush total in absentee ballot vs. electronic, with electronic favoring Bush),
to numerous reports of touchscreens changing Kerry votes to Bush votes all day long,
to 57,000 complaints to Congress of vote suppression and difficulty in voting, virtually all favoring Bush,
to other machine malfunctions always favoring Bush, never Kerry,
to weird, anomalous numbers all over the country, paper vs. electronic, top of the ticket vs. lower ticket, etc., always favoring Bush, never Kerry.
to black, poor, Democratic districts getting shorted on voting machines, but not white wealthy districts--favoring Bush.
to black, poor, Democratic districts getting shorted on precincts--favoring Bush
to blacks having to drive 30 miles to vote
to disproportionate numbers of blacks, poor people, and Democrats, many duly registered voters, being challenged and having their votes go into "provisional" limbo,
to Sproul shredding Dem registration forms all over the west with RNC money,
to counties with way more votes than voters, always favoring Bush
to Blackwell making up reg rules on the spot, to suppress the vote
to Blackwell hiding poll signature books
to machines and handcounts not matching, or being "made to" match during 3% recounts, fraudulently denying full recounts
to Triad reprogramming its computers during the recount and handing out "cheat sheets" to make the count come out right
to Jeb Bush's black voter purge lists and insistence on no paper trail,
to 60,000 absentee ballots in Dem areas in FLA "disappearing in the mail" just before the election...
to Dr. Freeman's estimate that Kerry's margin should have been approx. 4.5 million votes...

WHEREVER WE LOOK, there is more circumstantial evidence that Kerry won.

Do we have any wonder why Jeb Bush, and Tom Delay, and Kenneth Blackwell, and Wally O'Dell and H. Ahmanson & co. didn't want a verifiable vote?

--------

"Let's not continue to give false hope that Kerry won or had the election stolen from home."

Prove it! --that a Kerry win is a "false hope."
What you may really mean is that overturning a fascist coup is too difficult.

_________

"There is no evidence to suggest otherwise..."
This pontificating tone is very telling. Please list for us all the documents you have read on the evidence of election fraud.

-------

"...and I must disagree with you that there was overwhelming disenfranchisement of minority voters in Ohio."

Tell that to all the black voters in Ohio AND Florida! Tell that to John Conyers! Tell that to the hardworking volunteers on the ground who SAW it! There was MASSIVE, systematic and illegal disenfranchisement of poor and minority voters.

------

Now you admit, arguing just like the BushCon media lapdogs are (or will be) arguing:

"There were problems all over the US, not limited to Ohio that yes, likely caused the legal votes of some to be discarded, miscounted, or somehow ignored. IMO, 99.99% of these erroneous actions were in fact mistakes, either through the voters actions or through the negligence of those running the elections. Could some of these votes have been intentionally disenfranchised? In a country of 280 million, it's almost a certainty."

"...were IN FACT mistakes..." Uh-huh. Cite your source.

Calculate the odds of ALL of the instances of malfunctioning machines, anomalous numbers, Exit Poll discrepancies, and vote suppression incidents always favoring Bush, never Kerry. (All the statisticians are putting such odds into the "impossible" category.)

---------

"The point is to focus on election reform in a manner that does not hang a conspiracy kook fringe albatross around the necks of those who want to solve the problems that will never be fully eliminated from elections in a nation with 280 million citizens."

"...a conspiracy kook fringe albatross..." I read nearly this exact same language from a BushCon spinner in an AP article on Ohio today. Kooks and conspirators.

----------

"By calling for a Senator to stand and contest the election the results without a legitimate reason to do so will bring scorn and heavy political baggage ahead of upcoming Congressional fights where political firepower will be needed. This you wrote in your sample form letter for sending to Senators."

"...without a legitimate reason to do so..." Read the above.

"...political firepower..." - Congressional Democrats couldn't even get a paper trail. They HAVE NO political power of any kind. This is a jihad, my dear. A burn down. A fascist coup.

------

"To me this seems to be the worst possible time and place to propose serious election reform. Why must election reform be fought at this moment in time, when to do so will in fact hurt the credibility of election reform?"

The BushCon Congress is not going to DO election reform. You really don't get it, do you?

-----

"There is far less reason to be perturbed about the election results of 2004 when compared to the razor thin results from Florida in 2000."

I don't know, which is worse, 100,000-plus people slaughtered by our bombs in Iraq, or the increasingly threatened nuking of Iran?

------

"This is not a fight worth fighting at this time in the manner you propose in your letter. The net result will be a loss, not a gain for voters. The time and location for that is in Congress after the election is certified."

Spin, spin.

There won't be any voters. Who will bother to vote, ever again, in this rigged system, if the Democrats don't object to this fraudulent election with all their teeth?
-----

"Sorry. But election reform is a smart issue to pursue in congress
It's a win win, and you would be surprised by the amount of GOP support you would receive as they dont want to be on the wrong side of that issue."

They don't want to be on the wrong side of this issue?! Darling, where have you been?
-----

"Gore did not contest the election of 2000 which came down to only a few hundred votes in Florida. This time it's over 100,000 votes in Ohio.No, the time and place for meaningful reform is not January 6th."

It's not "over 100,000 votes." It's much more than that.

"This time..." they had Wally & Co. Speed of light. Totally undetectable. No paper trail.

"Meaningful reform." Your language betrays you--a stale phrase like this. Stale phrases. Dead democracy.

I think you ought to cc your posts to Karen Hughes and Karl Rove. I see nothing in them but uninformed B.S., and manipulation. No truth there.

I don't shy away from hard truths. I think it will be very difficult to overturn this fascist coup. And I think too many Democratic leaders think in just these same terms that you do, of caution, now is never the moment, vague opinion, whatever is easy and useful to little fiefdoms of power. With allies like this, it is going to be doubly difficult.

[frictionlessO]

104. I tried to PM you about this post you made Peace Patriot

but it says you turned it off.... I just wanted you to know that was far and away the best quick list of evidence Ive seen yet! Your entire post was so well thought out and coordinated! Truly a thing of beauty!

I have saved it and plan on sending it too many people tomorrow with your permission?

I think this is the post Ive been trying to write for weeks now!

Blessings!:yourock: :headbang: :toast:

[Snivi Yllom]

105. hmmm lets just say

There is enough conspiracy crap floating around these days to fill the Grand Canyon. Except none of it changes the fact Kerry lost.

Take a deep breath and go have a drink.

[Zhade]

61. So disenfranchised voters are not a legitimate reason to stand?

NT!

[EFerrari]

69. Oldest, best reason. So when people say, "no evidence", you

know they're full of cr@p.

[Zhade]

No, I actually just think they're cowards.

Too afraid to piss off the rightwing, so they let numerous violations of civil rights go by the wayside on the name of some illusory political expediency.

[EFerrari]

78. not mutually exclusive, in fact the two are ugly twins. n/t

[Snivi Yllom]

77. it's a reason to pursue election reform

Not to contest an election without evidence that the results should not be certified.

[Qutzupalotl]

83. Conyers wouldn't be doing this if he didn't think the evidence

was strong enough.

[Snivi Yllom]

89. You sure about that?

Politics makes people do all kinds of things.

[Qutzupalotl]

92. He's hardly the firebrand type.

In fact, he's quite level-headed and thorough. Why risk that reputation on sheer bluster?

[Zhade]

91. So if an election is riddled with destroyed registrations...

...vapor ballots that can't be recounted, provisionals tossed for questionable reasons, votes showing up for b*sh when Kerry was selected, uncertified patches on recount software, more votes than voters in some precincts, illegal lockdowns of vote-counting centers to prevent the press and public from witnessing the count, and any number of other issues - it's okay to certify the election as solid and complete?

Wow, that's a different definition of "democracy" than I learned in school!

[Snivi Yllom]

94. We will never have a democracy

if a democracy is defined according to your definition. Elections will never be perfect.

[Zhade]

107. So, we shouldn't even try? We should just let fraud slip through?

Help me out here - what percentage of disenfranchised American citizens robbed of their right to vote is acceptable to you?

[dooner]

65. It's always the "right time" to stand up for the truth

Regardless of political implications. Election reform has to be an issue now, because 6 months from now nobody will care/remember or see the point in pursuing.

We hired our Senators to represent us, and I for one, believe
in standing up for the truth, always. Not just when it is convenient or politically astute. I hope all of us would stand up for the truth, no matter the consequences. If our representatives can't stand up for the truth, they are probably going to drown under the lies.

Anybody paying the least bit of attention to what is going on would be a liar and hypocrite to ignore the problem. I have to believe there is at least one honest senator left.

[TruthIsAll]

101. It's not just election reform we want. We want justice. Kabeesh? n/t

.

[TruthIsAll]

100. Nice talking points. Very familiar. Mollie Ivins? Hardly. n/t

.

[seito]

45. Thank you for the quote and wisdom

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream and not make dreams your master;
If you can think and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same.

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss.

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;

If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And which is more you'll be a Man, my son!

Rudyard Kipling 1865 - 1936

[rainy]

46. Someone please list senators e-mails so I can copy and paste

and send Will's letter to them when it is ready.

[EFerrari]

62. rainy, only way I know is to go to C-span.org. They've links. n/t

[SlowDownFast]

67. google is your friend.....

just type in 'list senators emails' and lookie, lookie.......

first one that came up is good enough:

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

edit: also, http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home/ is good.

[candle_bright]

53. I can't wait until Thursday!

I'm guessing this will be on C-SPAN, but does anyone know what time?

[SlowDownFast]

60. starting approx 1:00pm EST, as per written in the constitution.n/t

[candle_bright]

73. Thank you n/t

[txindy]

58. Fascinating to watch what's happening even here

January 6th is only two days away, yet there are those who suddenly seem literally desperate to convince us that (paraphrasing) "nothing will happen" and "our leaders have abandoned us." And those are their positive remarks. Huh. Now, why would that be? Only two days left until the Congressional fireworks start and NOW is the time to start wailing and rending garments?

Hardly.

I swear all of Texas doesn't have enough popcorn available for this in-house show. If folks are determined to plotz before anything even begins, who are we to stand in their way? Unlike flying monkeys and their ilk, I know that I never learn anything when I'm the one doing the talking. And I'm learning a lot.

Let's watch. Plotz away.

[ClassWarrior]

68. Is that Texas slang? Plotz? LOL

NGU.

[EFerrari]

74. East Texas?

[txindy]

85. Naw. LOL! That's NYC talking

You can pick up a lot of useful words working in NYC.

In Texas, we'd say something along the lines of: Folks are telling other folks that the Dems are now like gnats in a hail storm. There's no hope. Pffft! The ones saying that are now as antsy as long-tailed cats in a room full of rocking chairs. It's very curious. I have to wonder why suddenly, two days away from amazing action in Congress, they've gotten themselves all worked up and determined to squash any belief in election fraud.

Now, stop me before I do more slang from other regions of the country!

[EFerrari]

87. Trying to pass, were you? : ) Good ear you have!

[keepthemhonest]

99. long tail cats in a room full of rocking chairs lol n/t

[understandinglife]

96. Fascinating, fun and, totally, reassuring that we are on-target. (n/t)

[Darkhawk32]

82. Will, I never planned on giving you my head!! So there!!! n/t

[keepthemhonest]

108. now there is only one day left to

have to hang onto your heads whether or not we were planning or not to give our heads up.

"let them eat cake" was this mary queen of scotts who said this and then they beheaded her. So sad whe was fighting for the poor people.

[mollyd]

111. You are kidding right?

Marie Antoinette was supposed to have said it.

the rest of the story ...

At the time that whoever-she-was uttered the infamous quotation "let them eat cake," the word "cake" did not refer to the familiar dessert item that the modern-day French call le gateau. The operative term was brioche, a flour-and-water paste that was "caked" onto the interiors of the ovens and baking pans of the professional boulangers of the era. (The modern equivalent is the oil-and-flour mixture applied to non-Teflon cake pans.) At the end of the day, the baker would scrape the leavings from his pans and ovens and set them outside the door for the benefit of beggars and scavengers. Thus, the lady in question was simply giving practical, if somewhat flippant, advice to her poor subjects: If one cannot afford the bourgeois bread, he can avail himself of the poor man's "cake."

However, by the time Marie Antoinette ascended the throne, brioche had acquired its current meaning--a fancy pastry item which, like le gateau, was priced far beyond the means of any but the wealthiest classes. The anti-Marie propagandists were well aware that their compatriots, most of whom were uneducated in either history or semantics, would swallow the story whole, so to speak, and not get the joke. Bon appetit! --N.D.G., Chicago http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_334.html

[keepthemhonest]

112. No I was

not kidding I have dementia ,I swear , I get important peoples name's mixed up all the time.

Thanks for enlightening me, hopefull I will remember the story better for next time.

Great thing about DU ,the talent base here is so diverse I knew someone would come along and correct me if I was wrong. I was right about that .

Thanks

[neek]

109. Oh My

I pray you are right.

:scared:

[cindyw]

110. I think I will memorize this quote.

And I will add this one from a sappy kid movie my 5-year-old loves,

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear.", Princess Diaries 2