Enough is enough! Glad that some of you get why Kerry is absent

[demo dutch]

from the vote challenge. For the others how can you not realize that if Kerry gets involved in the vote challenge, they will drag him to the guillotine and put this head on a stick!

Randi R. said today on her show to Jesse Jackson, ... It will not change the outcome of the election. BUT! it will shed light on the election fraud, and hopefully bring about changes. When congress gets to vote scrub into office anyway, he will have been "selected" by two branches of government instead of the "people". That's a hell of a blemish and takes away his so called political capital. That... and election reform is about the best the dems can count on for now!

PS.
Hopefully some the moderate repugs in congress and senate will be more willing to work with the dems (That of course could just be hopeful thinking.) After all, they will be up for re-election and will have to worry about saving their own neck. That fact seems to prevail in the end.

[MajorFlaw]

1. By being in Iraq, Kerry can neither sign the protest nor try to persuade

his fellow Dem senators not to sign the protest themselves. While I would like to have his vote and signature, I can understand why he would choose to be in this position. As long as one senator signs on and the CBC doesn't have to stand alone again, it really doesn't matter where Kerry is.

[luaptifer]

6. Kerry's absence establishes any contest as one based on principle

rather than 'i am a sore loser and i want to be president'. the more i consider this, the more it makes sense as framing (?!sorry haven't read lakoff).

his absence leaves it a cleaner fight, one certainly partisan. but i have to think that it maybe a smart move politically (as in, 'designed for politicians') in the sense that any contest won't have kerry's whining face on the package.

it's disgusting how much of our representation is ruled by the need to market farce.

-----

interesting discussion i found this evening:

Why Remember January 6th, 2001?
On January 6th, 2001, the members of the Senate and the House, save the Congressional Black Caucus, failed to meet their constitutional duty to independently judge the validity of the unlawful Florida electors. Since the inescapable fact was that the FL electors were not "regularly" appointed in accordance with the Electoral Count Act, their further duty was to disallow them.

The electors were not "regularly" appointed because the election laws of Florida include a “contest” provision. That election contest was underway when the Bush v. Gore edict put a stop to vote counting. It was the duty of the Congress to recognize that the Florida election had been truncated and was therefore invalid.<1>

Members of the Black Caucus and several House colleagues had the courage to do their duty and object to Florida's unlawfully appointed electoral votes. The objections were denied because the rules require a signature from both a member of the House and a member of the Senate, and no Senator joined them.

When the members of the House and the Senate convene to count the electoral votes, it is more than a mere formality or ministerial responsibility; they have a positive duty to judge the legality of those votes. It is up to each member of Congress to independently judge whether or not electors are lawfully appointed. In failing to join in the objection, each and every member of the Senate, and many in the House, failed this nation and violated their oath of office to defend the Constitution.

But it is even worse. The next day two Democratic Senators appeared on Meet the Press to answer the question as to why they sat on their hands. (Of course, Russert didn't mention, or even know, what their duty actually was - that would require journalism.)

Their answer was "Nobody asked us." Those two Senators?? Joe Biden and, you guessed it, John Kerry. This was conclusive evidence, insofar as at least these two were concerned, that they were not even mindful of their duty and therefore were derelict.

(and WTF is up with that?!)
Perhaps most disturbing were press reports stating that a blanket refusal by Senators to join with the few members of the House who did attempt a challenge to the Florida electors was made part of a power-sharing deal that was struck in the Senate. Negligent dereliction of duty is bad enough, but a willful refusal to confront the responsibility of their offices - for whatever reason - is far worse.

As Justice Breyer noted in his dissent to this Court's ruling in Bush v. Gore, the Electoral Count Act makes it the duty of Congress to ultimately resolve such a situation. In quoting the legislative history, he cites that:

"They can only count legal votes, and in doing so must determine, from the best evidence to be had, what are legal votes…"

And further that:

"The power to judge of the legality of the votes is a necessary consequent of the power to count. The existence of this power is of absolute necessity to the preservation of the Government." Bush v. Gore, J.Breyer dissent (11)

It seems clear that in his dissent Justice Breyer was explicitly instructing Congress as to what their duty was.

there's much more context there, definitely worth the read. eg., baldwin asserting that the theft in 2001 was worse than 9/11.

http://www.unioncountyfordemocracy.org/files/Jan6doc.htm

[luaptifer]

9. found that article trying to understand daschle's 'don't cooperate' edict

Fool Me Twice? Remember Cong. Black Caucus on Senate Floor in 2001

FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Congressional Black Caucus members tried to object to the election outcome on the floor of the House; no Senator would sign the objections.

“While Vice President Al Gore appeared to have accepted his fate contained in two wooden ballot boxes, Democratic members of the Congressional Black Caucus tried repeatedly to challenge the assignment of Florida's 25 electoral votes to Bush…. More than a dozen Democrats followed suit, seeking to force a debate on the validity of Florida's vote on the grounds that all votes may not have been counted and that some voters were wrongly denied the right to vote.” Susan Milligan, “It’s Really Over: Gore Bows Out Gracefully,” Boston Globe, January 7, 2001.

The Congressional Black Caucus effort failed for “lack of the necessary signature by any senator.” Sen. Minority Leader Tom Daschle (D-SD) had previously advised Democratic senators not to cooperate. ‘They did not.’” Robert Novak, “Sweeney Link Won't Help Chao,” Chicago Sun-Times, January 14, 2001.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/books-films/f911reader/index.php?id=16

Does anyone remember why republicrat daschle advised no cooperation? Was that handed down from his Citigroup master?

[FreepFryer]

2. Bush will have been the only President to serve twice w/o being elected.

powerful stuff indeed for our impeachment effort.

[oscar111]

4. baloney..orig post is baloney.. see Ukraine for retort to it

orig post makes little sense.

[FreepFryer]

7. I'm afraid your response makes even less. Care to elucidate?

[brainshrub]

3. I don't know what planet y'all are on

but here on earth it's called "being a chicken."

No matter what, Bush will be President. I'll just have to live with that fact; But to know that my own party did not do jack to get the votes recounted, that my own candidate merely filed a complaint then took off for the middle-east makes me sick.

At this point, I'm not even sure Kerry would have made a good President. For sure, he would have better than Bush, but to think that running away from a fight is a smart political move makes me sick.

Wanker.

[chi_girl_88]

12. John Kerry is not the only Democrat in congress

There will be many of them standing up for fair elections tomorrow.

And John Kerry is not running away from the fight. If he really wanted to, don't you think he could have asked his fellow Senators not to stand up, just like Al Gore did in 2000? If he had asked, they would have honored his request, just like they did Gore's in 2000.

The fact that there apparently are Senators who are going to stand up tomorrow, means that John Kerry did not make that request. Therefore, he is not running away from the fight. He's simply removing himself from it, so that it is framed (as it should be) around the need to ensure fair elections, and not around the fact that "Kerry won, get over it."

[brainshrub]

20. I don't recall Gore asking any Senator not to stand up.

But that's good spin.

The fact is, the Dems in the 2000 Senate did not stand up for their black constituents. They left them to hang in the wind.

I'm amazed, after everything whites have done to them, that Black Americans still had more courage to stand up for Democracy than any member of the 2000 Senate.

[chi_girl_88]

22. I always assumed it was common knowledge

that Gore had quietly asked them not to, because the recounts had gone on for so long. No proof, it's just what I heard in 2000.

[brainshrub]

26. To be fair, it's possible.

But you're the first person I've heard it from.

[grays4u]

27. he said it

I watched him say it on C-span!

[sunnybrook]

24. it's smart politics

not everyone sees things like we do here at DU.. it's important to remember that! Over the Holidays my conservative cousin brought out the fight in me when she said that there was one thing that she really did admire about Kerry. How "graciously" he conceded! Of course, we had a difference of opinion there, but she was contrasting him with Gore and how he "Demanded a recount..." I gave her a few little facts such as that there were some precincts in Ohio (04) where people waited until 1 a.m. to vote. She was shocked, saying she hadn't known that! What I am saying is I can see how this could be perfect strategy on Kerry's part because they cannot pin this on him in the same way. Wish I had some faith that this really WOULD change the election. But this way it can be more about the fraudulent process itself.

[corbett]

15. Roosters Don't Wear Purple Hearts!

Believe what you must but those of us who know our history know that the people still have all the power if they wield it properly.

Kerry is in the Middle East right now talking to allies about what will happen when he is inaugurated and talking to our troops so that he can hit the ground running to clean up Mess-O-Potamia when he is inaugurated. He has his work cut out for him.

[brainshrub]

21. No matter what... Bush wins.

The issue of Kerry being President is over. There is no way he'll be in the Oval Office unless invited in by the Bush family.

We are talking about the fate of our representative government. Kerry should be here for the fight, that's all I'm saying.

[yardwork]

5. They'll drag Kerry to the guillotine anyway

No matter what Democrats do, Republicans always stab us in the back.

It can't get any worse. The least we can do is stand up with dignity. I'm disappointed in Senator Kerry.

I'm counting on at least one Democratic senator to do the right thing tomorrow.

[liberalMabhool]

8. What is the end results?

[demo dutch]

11. The end result is that because he will have been "selected" twice

in stead of voted in, it will make his second term difficult, and hopefully some the moderate repugs in congress and senate will be more willing to work with the dems (That of course could just be hopeful thinking.) After all, they will be up for re-election and will have to worry about saving their own neck. That fact seems to prevail in the end.

[liberalMabhool]

13. if there is a challenge

All the House except 24 congressmen will vote for Bush and all senators except one or two will vote for Bush. This will confirm Bush winning the election to the American public.

[demo dutch]

16. We'll see

[corbett]

18. That's When The Other 2 Angles Come In

If your assessment turns out to be correct, there will still be time to indict the shrub on fraud charges. No Supreme Court justice, even Scalia, would swear in a man up on impeachable charges. You just wait!

[grays4u]

28. no doubt!

[rockedthevoteinMA]

10. Thank you demo dutch for the rational thoughts...I agree

:toast:

[liberalMabhool]

14. Rational thoughts?

[rockedthevoteinMA]

17. Yes rational thoughts.

oh and welcome to du :hi: ...I think

[politicasista]

19. Thank you demo dutch

You are a breath of fresh air. :yourock:

[Generic Other]

23. Randi was so right! She nailed it!

He again earns the asterick next to his name! Bush* the forever footnoted president!




*selected not elected.

[caligirl]

25. Anyone know if the repugs are trying to fly back to DC tonight?