Bev Harris: it will be ONLY Ohio; it WON'T deal w/ electronic vote-rigging

[nmoliver]

www.blackboxvoting.org

Report from Washington D.C.

1/5/2005 Midnight EST: Bev Harris was in D.C. today, together with representatives from auditthevote.org and Help America Recount. After meetings in John Conyers' office and meeting with other staffers, we can offer the following "heads up" for tomorrow:

Whether or not senators stand with Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich) to challenge electoral college votes, do not expect the action to flip the presidency. This is a dose of truth which may be unwelcome to some, but comes directly from the mouths of key congressional staffers. Indeed, Rep. Conyers himself does not expect his bold action to flip the presidency. The votes just aren't there.

Challenging the electoral college will serve instead to create public awareness of current problems with election integrity. If joined by at least one senator -- and more than one senator ARE likely to join -- the challenges will serve to open a 2-hour debate, likely split 50-50 between Republicans and Democrats, and this will produce awareness of problems that can enhance the chances of getting corrective legislation passed.

....

Will more states be involved, or just Ohio? It will only be Ohio, despite outstanding work done by Lowell Finley and his team on New Mexico, and issues in several Florida counties. It has been deemed too complex, by congressional representatives, to tackle more than Ohio.

One concern: The challenge will likely seek to frame the problem largely in terms of vote suppression and punch card systems which will soon be obsolete. Though we were assured that a mention would be made of problems in Lucas County, Ohio -- which uses Diebold optical scans -- and we also received assurance that vulnerabilities with remote access to central tabulators would be addressed, it seems likely that there will be an attempt to corral the discussion so that it does not tackle issues with modern voting machines. If public awareness is concentrated on suppression and punch cards, very thorny and dismally real problems with integrity of touch-screen and opti-scan systems will remain.

....

[BernieBear]

1. I'm sickened by this. This doesn't address anything

All of that work for what? I could throw up.

I certainly won't vote for any, let me repeat ANY incumbants.

[Peace Patriot]

3. Well, we've still got a couple of hours left to change this.

If we could get just one or two speakers on the issue...

I agree with you, BernieBear, I could tell this from Conyes' Executive Summary. I,too, find it sickening--that they stole it across the board, with electronic voting, and this won't be focused on??!! Ohio, bad as it was, was just something of a red herring in their fraud plan. Arnebeck grokked this.

ALL THIS WORK, to get them to challenge. ALL THE HEAVY DUTY WORK to get and analyze the evidence everywhere. Jeez.

Every day these last two months has, for me, been like Nov. 22, 1963 all over again. Assassination of hope, daily.

[Jersey Devil]

2. Since she kept her results a secret, what else could be expected?

Don't you see what she is doing? She is trying to shift the blame to congress for her refusal to disclose the results of her investigations. Of course there will be no objection based on electronic voting. Any evidence there may be of that has been kept a secret by her so she can peddle her book and video in the future.

BTW, why would anyone believe she has inside information and has now become a confidante of Conyers when she didn't even bother to show up at the hearings in Ohio?

[Vinnie From Indy]

4. Amen! n/t

[Peace Patriot]

7. Well, I wasn't even thinking of Bev, though her message...

...prompted some thoughts on this. It's quite plain in Conyers' Executive Summary. And there is boffo evidence by leading statisticians at UofPenn/MIT, U of Chic, UC Berkeley on both the Exit Poll discrepancy and other kinds of data, that Bush win is statistically impossible on whatever stats you look at. And TruthIsAll and others here. And Scoop in New Zealand. Unbelievable amount of anomalous numbers, all with astronomical odds against Bush winning.

It would be great to have hardware and paper evidence, and culprits--but the above evidence is a kind that is often used in legal cases on financial crime where perps have shredded paper trail, perfectly acceptable in court--and Congress is not court. It is Congress, highly political, all members with potential for embarrassment (even BushCons).

[Jersey Devil]

10. It is good strategy by Conyers

The statistical evidence has to be coupled with a least a few instances of actual machine tampering in order to be considered "evidence" imo. Without hard proof it is in the order of a hypothetical question, which though helpful, is not proof in and of itself.

This way Conyers can concentrate on the one thing that can be proven - voter suppression, and have real credibility on the issue.

[ohio_liberal]

8. Right on

She could've given Conyers and others the information she had weeks ago at the Ohio forum.

[BernieBear]

13. Fuck them all

Even Bev is just out for her self and her book. Everyone has there own little agenda.

We have fucking criminals in office, we are slaughtering people in Iraq, our borders are leaking.... Jeez we're gonna talk about punch cards...??

DOES ANYONE ELSE THINK THE WORLD HAS GONE INSANE?

I'm fucking losing it here.....

(Frist and Hasert's mailboxes are full)......

I can't even muster up a "bounce"

[T Town Jake]

5. Bev Harris?...uh-huh...

...ROFLMAO :crazy: :spank:

[nmoliver]

6. we gotta take the long view

Today, the dialog in the mainstream STARTS. Today, the news media will have to start covering the issue. Yes, Bev Harris blew it and yes, we need to get rid of electronic voting machines altogether.

("Paper trails" DON'T COUNT, folks! Republicans have sabotaged and will sabotage EVERY MOVE for a RECOUNT. The OFFICIAL RESULTS must come from HAND-COUNTED PAPER. We must settle for NOTHING LESS.)

Bev has played a very flawed role but she has played a role, and I think someday we will look back on her with gratitude.

This is the first step in our journey. We have never come this far before. Let's not expect 100% today, let's rejoice in our victory and move on from here.

[Peace Patriot]

9. Hear, hear! Paper ballots! Yes!

And onward!

[T Town Jake]

11. "Bev has played a very flawed role"...LOL...

...now there's the understatement of the decade if I ever heard it.

"I think someday we will look back on her with gratitude"

Uh-huh...well, good luck with that. :eyes:

[Peace Patriot]

12. P.S. I meant to say, too, that I first learned of this matter from Bev...

...for which I will be eternally grateful, whatever her sins have been. I haven't followed the controversy--I hate "circular firing squads" with my whole heart. And the only objection I picked up was that she crashed some dinner for Teresa Lapore, and like a crazy woman served her a subpoena or something. I thought it was great. Kind of thing I would do.

I have a fondness for crazy women, because so often they are right. (But I also know they--we--can be bitches, too.)

[Stevepol]

15. I agree Peace Patriot. It's always better to focus on principles

rather than people, especially if it means condemning the other person. We end up condemning ourselves in the long run because as has often been said, "There's so much good in the worst of us and so much bad in the best of us, it doesn't behoove any of us to speak ill of anybody else." One reason I like Kucinich so much: he focuses on the principle rather than the person. Bev Harris has done some magnificent things for the restoration of democracy in America.

[insane_cratic_gal]

14. Yes Congress

Seems to be just fine with e-voting. I have no idea if it's from the pocket-books being lined with $$$$

OR Just perhaps I was thinking this last night. Iraq election that is due to take place in Jan. 30th. If we can't validate our own election process. And we are giving our machines to Iraq to vote. How can the validate theirs? Or didn't Rummy already come out and tell us, "it wouldn't be perfect but people would vote."
Which is laughable, all that was was wiggle room. They know the vote isn't going to be legit. They know ours isn't.

Dear god, I hope we aren't providing any equipment for their process, if we are we deserve to laughed right out of their.(not that we belong their mind you.)


We will still have to fight for the code to be released so it can be evaluated by independent studies in a independent lab. National election standards. Maybe we can push for paper ballots like CA did, instead of having to vote with punch cards. Personally i want NO e-voting or hacked Tabulator. Yes a punch card can be recounted but if the samples aren't random. Forget it, forget ever getting a fair election.

We have to be willing to say, we don't care if it takes 3 days to count. We want three days to vote. WTH on the 7th we rest! (snicker).


We must get organized ASAP and start getting heard on these issues, if we plan on convincing them our trust and integrity is more important then their wallets.

Bev can do what ever she is doing. Once voice is not enough though, she has to know that. This is not just her fight. It belongs to the American people. We don't need one hero, we need millions to champion the cause.

[understandinglife]

16. One person's opinion (n/t)