This whole "the election was stolen" thing...

[Postmanx]

...might make you feel better, but it is bullshit and does not advance anyone's cause, except perhaps Bush's.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

1. enjoy your stay while it lasts.

[Dookus]

2. what a well-thought out

argument, backed with facts and logic. Not.

[Kierkegaard]

6. Yes. Compelling argument.

I'll have to agree.

:eyes:

[Blue_Tires]

17. sage wisdom

i guess Bev Harris might as well close down shop, and we can all sit back and take it..

enjoy the bannage

[symphony]

30. heee heee

I loved the logic and all the arguments, too.

Thank G-d I have my special glasses that can read invisible ink. (or should I say pixels?) :thumbsdown:

[BlueEyedSon]

3. Yeah, we should all roll over and allow voting to be 100% BBV by 2008

[Kierkegaard]

10. Well. as long as they agree to bring the Vaseline.

Sure, why not?

[drdtroit]

13. Hell, just eliminate voting.

After all, that's the Republican thing to do and we must all assimilate.

[Eloriel]

27. Well, they're basically accomplished that -- all we have right now

is the ILLUSION of voting/democracy.

[Green Mountain Dem]

4. Hmmmm...

lot of folks said that in 2000 too !!

on edit...most of them now named..Here Lies a Disruptor..

[eleny]

5. You're wasting your time

[benburch]

7. Fuck you.

It's not bullshit, and you are not a Patriot.

[libra]

8. You're just afraid

because we are not letting this go. This election was stolen.

[Ducks In A Row]

9. go back to freeperland and don't look here

you should just let it be a surprised when people like Ken Blackwell, Jeb Bush, LaPore, Glenda Hood, and maybe George W. Bush go to jail

[Kierkegaard]

14. And will be their dance partners one they all meet up in HELL...

Sour grapes this isn't. If we lost fair and square, I could be a man and accept it. This was fraud on a scale never before seen in this country and we will get to the bottom of it some how.

[bushisanidiot]

11. So when the counting is done and OH goes to Kerry will you feel the same

way if the repukes argue that the election was stolen? will you tell them to just shut up and give it up? hmm?

there is massive proof of voter fraud and the vote totals have NOT been certified yet, so it isn't quite over as much as you like might it to be.

[ogradda]

12. and who are you

as opposed to "us" ?

[tridim]

15. Your post proves one thing

The Freepers (and the rest of the GOP) is scared shitless at what we're uncovering. Why? Because they know it's true. You did a bad thing, and we're going to expose you.

[righteous1]

16. cried wolf

We have to be careful, you know the boy that cried wolf. With 3.6 million votes diff we have the distinct posssibility of being percieved as incoherent and alarmist

[Eurobabe]

18. psssssssssssssst.....

[ogradda]

19. hehehehe

would have been better if the jerk had stayed around..i love those drive by posts.

[EndElectoral]

20. Disagree! Rove's October Surprise - DIEBOLD!!!!!

[meganmonkey]

21. Are you still there, postmanx?

All sorts of replies for ya here - care to keep track of your thread?

Interesting pattern, that.
Starting a negative thread, with no evidence, links, or even background, and then bailing.

Stand up for yourself, if you really believe it, ya pansy.

[TheKingfish]

41. Ok Ahnold n/t

[meganmonkey]

42. LOL - I never talk like that...

After I typed 'ya pansy', I kinda looked at the screen, like 'where the hell did that come from'?, but I hit 'post' and now it's there for all to see

:P

[Fozzledick]

22. This whole "bush won the election" thing is BULLSHIT !!

The reported vote "counts" in Ohio and Florida are blatent frauds.

Several other states are extemely dubious.

If they didn't get away with it last time, this wouldn't be happening.

If they get away with it this time, the next "election" will be even more bogus.

[tommcintyre]

34. The next election may be the last chance for a real one NO MORE FILIBUSTER

http://www.independentmediasource.com/index.html
Evoting Fraud:
THE most important issue for all of us <excerpt>

"I believe in two years, they will try to "finish the job". They will try to defeat enough Democratic Senators to take away their ability to filibuster*. If this happens, there will be no stopping them! They will be able to appoint the most extremist right-wing judges, etc. They will have unchecked power - since they will have total control of all branches of our federal government. In effect, our country will become a total fascist state!
*A device, used only in the Senate, to delay or prevent a vote by time-consuming talk. It can be stopped only by a 60-member vote of the senators present and voting."

<The definition is for "Fizzledick" who probably doesn't know what a filibuster is.>

More info here:

http://www.independentmediasource.com/evotingfraud.htm

[Postmanx]

23. Pansey?

Pansey? What is that, some sort of attempted slur involving my sexual preference? Why not just call me faggot or nigger?

If you, and by you I am referring to those of you who cling to the delusion that the voting machines were rigged. If you want to advance the Democratic Party, I suggest putting together a more compelling retort to the election other than “the election was rigged”.

Outside of DU, no one will take this argument seriously. You (see the definition above) will be laughed at and the Party will be marginalized by your association with it.

[cubsfan forever]

31. Isn't a (sic) pansy a type of flower? Just asking. n/t

Professor 2

[meganmonkey]

44. Here are some links that I find pretty compelling

First off, no one is saying it's as simple as "the election was rigged".
Second, if you would like to see a compelling retort, look at the DU homepage
for some threads with links to compelling evidence. Like this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x962698

or this one:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x961048

or this one:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2608146

and so on and so forth.

p.s. As for my calling you pansy, hey it worked! You suddenly have something to say! Welcome back to your thread.

[hangloose]

24. If a system is in place that prevents a recount then the system is

prone to fraud. The current black box voting paperless ballot is unacceptable for a free republic. Doubt will come with such a deficient system. We all need to question and make our government accountable. We will never eliminate fraud or miscounting but we can damn sure minimize it with a time tested process, auditable paper ballots.

Who gives a shit is it takes four days to count 100,000,000 votes as long as there counted as cast!

[Gyre]

25. Change the channel sparky.

Nobody invited you here.

Gyre

[Eloriel]

26. You're just showing your ignorance

Or your agenda. One of the two.

Study up on the issue (hint: vote suppression, vote fraud, blackbox voting) and then get back to us.

[symphony]

28. so we should just shut up and be led to slaughter? no, thanks

... this from AP and CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/05/voting.problems.ap/index.html

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- An error with an electronic voting system gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in suburban Columbus, elections officials said.

Franklin County's unofficial results had Bush receiving 4,258 votes to Democrat John Kerry's 260 votes in a precinct in Gahanna. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct.

Bush actually received 365 votes in the precinct, Matthew Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, told The Columbus Dispatch.

State and county election officials did not immediately respond to requests by The Associated Press for more details about the voting system and its vendor, and whether the error, if repeated elsewhere in Ohio, could have affected the outcome.
Bush won the state by more than 136,000 votes, according to unofficial results, and Kerry conceded the election on Wednesday after acknowledging that 155,000 provisional ballots yet to be counted in Ohio would not change the result
The Secretary of State's Office said Friday it could not revise Bush's total until the county reported the error.
The Ohio glitch is among a handful of computer troubles that have emerged since Tuesday's elections.
In one North Carolina county, more than 4,500 votes were lost because officials mistakenly believed a computer that stored ballots electronically could hold more data than it did. And in San Francisco, a malfunction with custom voting software could delay efforts to declare the winners of four races for county supervisor.
In the Ohio precinct in question, the votes are recorded onto a cartridge. On one of the three machines at that precinct, a malfunction occurred in the recording process, Damschroder said. He could not explain how the malfunction occurred.
Damschroder said people who had seen poll results on the election board's Web site called to point out the discrepancy. The error would have been discovered when the official count for the election is performed later this month, he said.
The reader also recorded zero votes in a county commissioner race on the machine.
Workers checked the cartridge against memory banks in the voting machine and each showed that 115 people voted for Bush on that machine. With the other machines, the total for Bush in the precinct added up to 365 votes.
Meanwhile, in San Francisco, a glitch occurred with software designed for the city's new "ranked-choice voting," in which voters list their top three choices for municipal offices. If no candidate gets a majority of first-place votes outright, voters' second and third-place preferences are then distributed among candidates who weren't eliminated in the first round.
When the San Francisco Department of Elections tried a test run on Wednesday of the program that does the redistribution, some of the votes didn't get counted and skewed the results, director John Arntz said.
"All the information is there," Arntz said. "It's just not arriving the way it was supposed to."
A technician from the Omaha, Neb. company that designed the software, Election Systems & Software Inc., was working to diagnose and fix the problem

[cubsfan forever]

29. "might make "you" feel better...."

Typo? Perhaps you are afraid because we are not going to back down? Just asking.

Professor 2

[tommcintyre]

32. not worth the electrons to answer you with

[brettdale]

33. No its not bullshit

They stole it, clear and simple, coming up witht he hard data and evidence is going to be hard to prove, have a look at the lines of people in Ohio and Florida, they dont look like your average Bush supporter, already they have proven that 4000 votes got miscounted for Bush, this is just the very very very tip of an huge iceberg, I am just very concern that it wont come out because of the losers at CNN and the print media wont go near the story.

Look at the crowds kerry got at the rallys, 100k plus compared to Bushs 40k plus. Do you really think Bush got more votes. If there is only ten days before this comes official we havent got a lot of time, and if we fail, well its bye bye America as we know it.

[Postmanx]

35. Its a bitter pill to swollow

Don’t you see that this sort of reactionary nonsense only hurts the Democratic image?

You don’t like my opinion, so obviously, I am the enemy. Way to be inclusive. And if the rest of the country shares my concern that conspiracy theorists do not represent an electable point of view?

How about we develop a platform inclusive beyond shiny side in and shiny side out tin-foil hats. Or would that be too crazy?

[ParanoidPat]

36. Sorry, some people are just too stupid to do all that 'fuzzy math'.......

.......that clearly shows FRAUD! :wow:

"the rest of the country shares my concern" LOL!

[meganmonkey]

45. Maybe we need to wash it down with some Koolaid, huh?

It might go down easier.
Man, you bring out the smarminess in me.
Okay. While many of the responses in this thread (including one or two of mine) are reactionary, as you say, many of them (including one or two of mine) are real rebuttals to your original post, with links and evidence. You have not addressed a single argument that has been put forth here. It's not that we don't like your opinion in and of itself, it's that you offer no evidence whatsoever to back your opinion up. People come here to LEARN. Maybe if you click some links and read some things you could learn, too. Maybe you already do read and you know something we don't know. Then post a link so we can read it too. Then we can learn something new.

[bhikkhu]

37. Two possibilities:

1) They stole it - we no longer live in a democracy. For the moment, the constitution is too scratchy to wipe our asses with, and not much use for anything else.

2) They didn't steal it, and people here just happen to prefer war, concentration camps, massive deficits, international ridicule, incomplete sentences, etc.

If the first case is correct, karma is a bitch. I will stay and fight. If the second case is correct, I would bail for a sane country. I think the election was stolen again, and I am staying.

[TheKingfish]

38. I agree

Wow lots of rude replies here. Why not just tell him you disagree and give the evidence of fraud? Call him a pansy? sheesh

[ibegurpard]

39. Go participate in one of the "perfect candidate for '06" circle jerks

that will be MUCH more productive. :eyes:

[bitchkitty]

40. Or except perhaps yours.

If you don't want to talk about it, don't start threads about it.

[scottxyz]

43. However, it would be nice if it could be PROVEN all votes were counted

Ironically, in hard-copy-based systems (paper ballots) this is easier to prove than in all-electronic systems (no paper ballots).

This is because it is easier to lose ten thousand electronic bytes than it is to lose ten thousand paper ballots.

Of course, there is no "proof" this election was also stolen - just a lot of circumstantial evidence (the exit poll anomalies, the tallying errors).

Auditing, one of the cornerstones of accounting, which is one of the cornerstones of capitalism, is entirely based on comparing two independently computed results to see if they match.

Can anyone name a major computing system in the history of civilization which does NOT rely on some kind of redundancy or replication? The very etymology of the word "confirm" includes the root "con-" - meaning "with". The only way to "confirm" something is by comparing it with something else.

People's lack of faith in the unchecked totals produced by paperless voting systems is therefore quite justified. Diebold's, Sequoia's and ES&S "directly recording electronic" paperless touchscreen voting systems are the first time in history that an important total has been computed WITHOUT double-checking it against a separate copy.

How comfortable would you feel using a Diebold ATM if it didn't produce a paper printout after you made a deposit, withdrawal or transfer?

So don't let the computer programmers snow you. Flashy touchscreen notwithstanding, Diebold's programmers haven't invented some new way of "confirming" without "comparing". They are simply lying when they say they have "confirmed" the vote totals. There is no way to confirm something is correct unless you have something to compare it against - and you don't have to be a computer programmer to see this.