Talk is cheap.

[genius]

The good guys won't vote to certify.

[info being]

1. What good guys?

[Chimpanzee]

3. The onesthat won't vote to certify - get with the program!!

[meganmonkey]

4. I think genius is trying to say

that standing up and talking is one thing, But after the debate when they vote to certify Ohio's electors or not, that will tell us who is REALLY on our side

[Freddie Stubbs]

10. I don't think that that many will vote against certification

[Child_Of_Isis]

17. They are pretty much making it clear that

they will not vote against it.

[sd_UDO]

27. We can count the votes 6 times a year!

http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/105/udo/

http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/105/udo/

[MoonRiver]

5. We will find that out shortly, won't we.

[nolabels]

2. Exactly

n/t

[Jimdish25]

6. They can't wait to surrender

So repugs will stop calling them names like "obstructionist" - OUCH that hurts!

[princehal]

7. Geeze

What do you people want, blood?

WE HAVE SENATORS talking about what we talk about here.

I could care less who votes to accept the EV.

[Justitia]

15. yes, but the point is credibility of the argument

They either lend credibility to it, or undermine it - with their VOTE.

Most will never hear these speeches, but votes are recorded (and accessed) FOREVER.

Ask John Kerry how a voting record can impact your future.

Their votes ARE important - it is how we know them.

Do they hear us? Do they believe us? Will they stand for us?

[Jersey Devil]

8. Take Mick Jagger's advice

"You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you'll get what you need."

At least they (Hillary, Lautenberg, etc) didn't get up and reem the Democrats like Durbin. Besides, if the line is that it isn't about overturning the election it doesn't matter how they vote.

[Califooyah Operative]

12. I never, ever thought i'd agree with a mick jagger quote....

but i do.

[Justitia]

9. QUESTION: What happens if Senators vote against certification?

And how many must vote against before anything happens?

My question is leading here: Why NOT vote against certification? What do these Dems have to lose?
They all keep saying it will be certified anyway, so why don't they take a stand and show us all their position???

[hang a left]

14. It is just as the original poster states.

Talk is cheap. It's all BS. We are not a government of, by and for.

[Salomonity]

22. looks awful

Think how it looks, to tell a state "we're going to ignore all your votes, even though almost the entire state thinks the election was basically fair, and Bush won".

This 'poll workers gave bad instructions' claim we're making is going to ruin the party in Ohio--half the poll workers are democrats, and saying our own party was either incompetant or bought off is a loser.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

11. Well won't Ohioans be insulted if their vote is rejected?

DO we just write off Ohio in '08?

[MoonRiver]

13. The only Ohioans who will be insulted are Repukes!!

Please.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

16. I wouldn't count on that being true

moderates might think it petty. I don't know.

[MoonRiver]

21. You must mean those "moderates" who voted for bush.

Cause anybody who was disenfranchised in Ohio is applauding this effort.

[Salomonity]

24. and everyone else?

Most of the state thinks it was a fair election--read their newspaper editorials.

Threatening to ignore a state because you don't like how they voted--that's explosive, and it's about to blow up in our faces.

[nolabels]

18. Yea, so we have the fraud in the other places become legit

This whole country has or is getting more corrupt every day.

So it would satisfactory to say people were fraudulently elected but that's okay because we knew about it?

[Salomonity]

20. yep

Folks, we're fucked. Forget Ohio. Probably this will tip half a dozen states into Jeb's column--the GOP can claim, with perfect truth, that "the democrats tried a legislative coup in 2004, trying to steal an election by disenfranchising states they don't like".

This is a really terrible thing we're trying to do, and there's going to a godawful price.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

25. Having the debate is a good thing. Rejecting their electors risky

We are, unfortunately playing politics, while we also try and maintain democracy (OR RETURN TO IT).
The reaction and potential downside needs to be assessed.
Rejecting the electors will require proof that the electors were not legitimate- that Kerry won, (or should have).
All we know is that a whole shitload of people didn't get to vote or had their votes tossed. All that is proof of is that they didn't get their votes counted. It is not proof that Kerry would have gotten those votes.

[nolabels]

26. The time for go along, get along is long over

Every tangible thing is being rod rough shod over, this just a place where the statement is being made, the proverbial line in the sand.

Let me clue you in, there really is no federal government left anymore. It's just a large horde of carnivorous corporate lawyers trying to figure out how to divide up the meat.

[forgethell]

31. Well, I

wouldn't say that it is a terrible thing we are trying to do, but I have to agree we will pay a terrible price.

You have to live with the consequences of your decisions, which we will find out over the next 4 years.

[Jimdish25]

19. It's about your vote, this vote!

Not some hypothetical election of the future. Who stands up for our vote THIS TIME? I'm sick of hearing about what they'll do for us next time around. Wars are being fought now. Corporations are stealing the treasury now. Right wing judicial freaks are being appointed now.

Now we're talking about towing the party line - again. It's not a line it's an anchor!

[info being]

29. There won't be a next time for me.

I can't trust this party next time. They have to deliver performance, not just promise it in the future. When they deliver, then they have my vote again.

[Proud_Lefty]

23. Sounds like they all plan to certify

I feel totally disappointed. They're all saying they plan to certify, but are using the time to grand stand for the future of our elections instead of all the crimes that happened in THIS ELECTION, but flipping back and forth between CSPANS, maybe I missed something. Did I?

[nolabels]

28. Parlor games, smoke and mirrors ?

Put everything on the table so it's too much for anyone group or movement to handle. It's a simple trick that requires complex answers, and they will get theirs sooner or later.

I don't feel disappointed just vindicated, this immense overreaching government was created by both parties to gain power of the whole of the people. Lots of it may have been well intentioned but by and large the word Legit comes from the word Legion and mostly has nothing to do with other liberating words or works.

They sold it, many bought it, others broke it, but we ALL still own it in most instances, no matter how torn up it is. We can't get rid of it till we figure out ways to take pieces off it to make something else out of it.

[info being]

30. No, that's pretty much it. Business as usual.