ALL Those who are saying voting NO is Wrong, DO NOT fully Understand

[Up2Late]

The Size of the Problem we face today.

A "Yes" vote today would achieve NOTHING, except to paint a bull's eye on them for the Repukes to aim at in upcoming elections.

The fact that John Kerry is not going to contest this election up to the supreme Court, doesn't mean he quit,

It means that the Republicans SUCCEEDED in their Fraud. They have Hijacked the Vote.

John Kerry did not LOSE, The BASTARDS WON by Cheating, AGAIN!

The fact today is, The Republican Criminals that currently Control ALL functions of our Federal Government win NEVER LOSE ANOTHER ELECTION AGAIN, UNLESS THEY CHOOSE TO LOSE AN ELECTION!

That is the reality we face today, and that is where we need to focus our energy NOW, TOMORROW, and in ALL FUTURE Elections!!!

[insane_cratic_gal]

1. Amen

your right 100 percent.

People just aren't hearing it or willing to acknowledge getting them to stand up and preach as they did, they are recongizing you.

Democracy in this country still lives, now the battle begins!

[fertilizeonarbusto]

2. Thank you

Friends we lost this one in November. The goal I saw today was to make it clear that we are fully aware that the Rethugs cheated. That was achieved. we were never going to overturn the result, though.
And gird your loins for more fighting. The next one is Social Security-and that will be the turning of the tide. But we have to stay smart and strong-and alive.

[ClarkUSA]

3. Amen...thanks for a slice of DU sanity ...

[TornadoTN]

4. Not entirely true

It doesnt matter how they would have voted, the GOP has us right where they want us, painted in a corner as the party of sore losers.

Since they control all branches of our government, nothing of substance will be done about this problem and we will be doing this for years to come.

At least a yes vote, IMHO, would have rallied the countless millions who feel like they have no voice left.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

5. i agree

[GreenArrow]

7. You got it

.

[electropop]

25. I'm done with the Dems.

Time to go Green. I saw Cobb speak today at the pro-democracy rally, and he clearly supports democracy more than the Democrats at this point.

[Up2Late]

34. Why can't you folks just become the Green Coalition

Help Push us (or our Congress People) MORE Left? :think:

Otherwise, You're just throwing you vote down the crapper. :hurts:

This is not a "Parliamentary" Government, 5 Green Party Congress People Have ZERO Power when they get to Washington, if they could get elected, and think about it, who WOULD the Green Congresspeople Caucus with? :shrug:The Democrats MOST of the time.

You're just kidding yourself. Unless you can Get the U.S. Constitution thrown out, and a Parliament brought in, 3rd parties are just another wasted vote. :eyes:

[pacalo]

6. I agree.

With the way things are now, not even Billy Graham could have won the election. The Rethug machine stole this election from John Kerry.

[tinrobot]

18. Damn those pictures

...made me cry.

Thank you for posting that, it makes me realize how many of us there are. We ARE in the majority and we will only get stronger.

Just don't forget that America has seen it's share of thieves and crooks in the past. We've always survived. America is stronger than them.

[Kelvin Mace]

8. If I may ask...

A "Yes" vote today would achieve NOTHING, except to paint a bull's eye on them for the Repukes to aim at in upcoming elections.

And this would be different from what will happen next time in WHAT way?

John Kerry lost when he threw in the towel the next day instead of fighting tooth and nail EVERY step of the way.

Sometimes, the nation must be torn apart for its own good. Lincoln understood this, Kerry does not.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[roenyc]

13. sigh, yeah sometimes it takes a brave man

everyone said they wished he could find that young man that he was when he was a young.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

15. It is one less distraction to worry about

and I think tearing up the nation can't be done too many times before it won't go back together again.
Today was good groundwork for future action.

[Up2Late]

35. "...this would be different..."

"...this would be different from what will happen next time in WHAT way?"

Nothing will be Different, next(2006) Election, except that we will have 39 Democrat/61 Republican split, in the 2006 mid-term election.

(That is my official prediction for 2006, if nothing Major Changes soon)

Then the REAL Police State starts. If we don't stop thinking, "this will just right it's self in a few years," it won't. Now is the time we have to start to face up the Death of the U.S. Democracy, if we don't, starting NOW, force something to change, it's over.

Because they have control of the government, the media, AND the Vote counting machines, if any Democrat steps out of line, or tries to shame the Repukes into changing things, they rig that Reps election and "Poof" problem solved.:argh:

If these people learned anything from the "Cold War," Winning an Election with a 99% to 1% margin of Victory is way to obvious. They will let us win Some elections, as long as that Senator or Congress person remains silent on on the fringe.

The only answer is Education. But not just us, we need to educate the Sheep too. If we start to splinter, Democracy is DEAD.
The only other "best case scenario" (which isn't very good) is that the U.S. economy has a TOTAL financial melt-down, which IS a very REAL possibility very soon.

My best advice right now is, if you have have a lot of money (in U.S.$) move it over seas to the Euro, that's what most of the Super Rich have been doing for months.

[Beth in VT]

9. A "Yes" vote would have communicated

that they found these results unacceptable, which is the purpose of having them vote.

How can they complain now when they have shown by their vote that they accept the results? The Repubs can point back to this.

[SuperSteve]

10. what are you talking about?

Massive fraud? Hijacked the vote? Its BS like this that has our numbers in the proverbial toilet.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kurovski]

28. Yes,

:eyes:

[mycatforpresident]

21. My tinfoil hat is itchy

but I'm still not taking it off.

[Kurovski]

27. Well,

:eyes:

[Up2Late]

37. Do you always walk into a the middle of a conversation

and just interject that it's all BS? :spank:

Do a BUNCH of research on the subject, then you can tell me how wrong I am. You can start here <http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/2004votefraud_ohio.html>

At that link, you'll find most of what we've been talking about for the last 2 months:grr:

[McCamy Taylor]

11. True, since the Yes's would have been a minority better to have just 2

Tubbs-Jones and Boxer. Plenty of people spoke.

This way Freepers cant say it was 498 to 17 or something like that since the vote count is obviously purely symbolic and it is the debate that is all important.

[jackster]

12. sorry can't agree

for instance - Kennedy couldn't be voted out if he died - he's in for life here in MA - I don't care who or how many repukes target him - HE SHOULD HAVE STOOD WITH BOXER

I just called his office and told them that while I love the man dearly, in good conscience I can never vote for him again

[mamalone]

20. What did they say?

I would love to do the same thing, but I don't live in Mass anymore. I am in NY where neither of my senators voted with Boxer either. I'd love to hear the justification that Kennedy would give for his inaction today.

[Up2Late]

38. I got news for ya

Even though most Democrats Love and respect Ted Kennedy, the Repukes wrote him off 25 years ago.

When he ran for president in 1980, he became Ted "the Irish Drunk, who drove his car off the bridge and let that girl drown before reporting it" Kennedy. :beer:The GOP would love to bump him off, but they relegated him to the pages of the National Enquirer YEARS ago.

The GOP have chosen to keep Ted Kennedy around, for whenever they need to show the sheep how immoral and flawed Democrats are. Plus, it would probably be very expensive, in advertising Dollars, I mean.

[RollergirlVT]

14. The reason the "vote" does matter.....

"It means that the Republicans SUCCEEDED in their Fraud. They have Hijacked the Vote." and our democratic representatives didn't use their vote to record the scam. Just because an "aye" vote wouldn't change the outcome of todays certification doesn't mean that the dissent doesn't matter and THAT is the point.

[Up2Late]

39. No, They didn't, they used something better

They put their WORDS into the Permanent Congressional Record. That way, it's in context.

Haven't you noticed how easily "they" take one or two "Protest or "Principled" votes, and distort it into a 30 second attack ad?

They create some BS organization like "Patriotic Americans for Supporting the Right to Vote for Everyone," or something like that,

and then say, "Barbara Boxer voted to take away the the right of everyone in the State of Ohio, to Vote for the President of the United States of America:grr:. Why is a Senator from California :shrug:trying to take away the voting rights of the people of Ohio, when she's from California? :tinfoilhat:Bla bla bla... I can almost hear the ominous music now.

A 'Yes' vote gets taken TOTALLY out of context, it's just Waaaaaaaaaay to easy for the Republican scumbags that come up with these commercials, when you lob a slow, easy one like this, right over the plate.

Did you notice how in this election, they had to resort to taking single, or two word "phases," out of context, and tried spin that into a 30 second spot? Remember "Global Test?":think:

[Cheswick2.0]

17. poor babies, they are scared of losing their jobs and having mean

republicans say mean stuff about them. :cry:

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. You are right

excellent comments

[Pacifist Patriot]

22. There is a huge flaw in your argument.

What makes you think any Democratic Senator doesn't already have a bullseye painted on them in upcoming elections. They ALWAYS have a bullseye painted on them by the opposition.

I think an "Aye" vote knowing you would lose anyway would speak volumes about integrity for the responsibilities of your job and respect for the voters.

[glitch]

26. They should've stood with Barbara. A BIG mistake not to.

No amount of rationalizing and Sun Tsu quoting will wash away the shame of letting her vote stand alone. That's what "standing with" means.

They've already got targets on their foreheads, and so do the moderate republicans.

[Up2Late]

50. Sorry, I forgot to include the link

that I promised in my previous post. Here it is:
<http://boortz.com/>

Neil Boortz is a TOTAL Asshole. When ever anyone challenge his views, he starts calling himself a Libertarian.

Also, who is quoting Sun Tsu?:wtf: I wasn't. If I did, it's because I'm a Buddhist and a student of H.H. the Dalai Lama.

[saracat]

30. Bingo!

[KittyWampus]

36. Look, The GOP'ers Looked Like Complete Assholes- Amateurish

unprepared and callous.

All they did was talk about M.Moore, terrorism and sour grapes.

Theh Democrats looked like they were defending Democracy and the Electoral Process.

[Up2Late]

41. They probable do, but this is called, damage control

I mostly answered you post above at post #39 so I won't repeat myself, except that, we are already down by 5 in the Senate, and I think 25 in the House, the hole is already getting deep.

But I will no longer matter after 2006, if we fail to gain back some control over the Computers. I'm sure the DNC took a long hard look at who had strong enough Majorities, a good reputation, and already dealt with the "Computer Voting Issue"

I'm sure, in about 3 days, the "Discredit all Democrats for challenging 'our' president" machine is going to kick in big time. Check your local "Hate Radio" station, they probably have already started the 2 year "hate fest" already.

Here's a link to one of the worst examples of this slick "Brainwashing."

[No Exit]

23. Thank you, Voice of Reason!!! n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

24. I say dont give the Freepers any numerical ammunition to throw at us.

This way they cant say it was x to y in favor of Bush in the Congress.

[quiet.american]

29. If I were going to be through with the Dems --

I will not now turn my back on John Conyers, Jr., Maxine Waters, Stephanie Tubbs-Jones, Barbara Boxer and those other representatives who boldly spoke on our behalf on the floor today.

Looks like Canada will have to wait.

At least until they start rolling out the "freedom trucks" to haul us away to "freedom camps."

[Up2Late]

44. Don't for get the Freedom Tanks

or giving us the chance to got to Heaven earlier than we planned:pals:

[bardgal]

31. I agree x INFINITY!

[yardwork]

32. I disagree precisely because this is so important

If we don't take a stand now, when will we take a stand?

And what bullseye will this paint that isn't already there? Daschle was the wimpiest Democratic leader imaginable but the Republicans painted him as a "liberal" and got him defeated. That's where appeasement gets us.

The Republicans will go after us no matter what we do. Appeasing them only makes the bullies bolder.

Stand up and fight, Democrats.

Thank you, Barbara Boxer and everybody who stood up today.

[Up2Late]

45. Hey, for some of us, It's already too late

I lost my right to have my vote counted in 2002, When Diebold swept into my State of Georgia and put their Corporate touch on our elections, now and forever.

I mostly answered your post above in post #35, #39, and #41, so I won't repeat myself:smoke:

[buddysmellgood]

33. You contradict yourself. You just said Republicans will never lose another

election unless they choose to. What do we possibly have to loose by standing up to fraud? You basically are arguing that democratic senators serve at the pleasure of the republican. Vote the way the republicans want or you're out of there.
Well guess what...if you don't vote to defend democracy, then they don't deserve the job. Voting yes would mean having to defend your vote. It would mean having to repeat the reasons for casting your vote. The reasons are in Conyers' report.
I say FIGHT. If the pukes want to attack BRING IT ON. We have nothing to lose.

[Up2Late]

46. Exactly, "vote the way the republicans want or you're out of there..."

That's how it is for me Now, and for most of you VERY Soon. All of my Fed Reps are now Selected, courtesy of the Diebold Corporation. And BRING IT ON? :silly:I seem to remember a certain Idealistic "President" who said that, right after he had sent a superiorly trained military into a land full of peoples, with a language that we could not understand or read. That Army of Superior Solders are now getting ambushed and overrun every day.

What do we have to loose? Our dignity and reputation and the risk of turning this well thought out plan, where we keep it at the level of, defending the rights of the people, hopefully keeping the respect of the American people, or casting a hopeless, but principled vote, and then watching for the next 2 to 4 years, our names get dragged though the mud of KKKarl Rove style politics.

Showing some dignity and respect for the current laws of America, are about all we have left, to preserve our credibility with less politicaly minded people, over the next 4 years, as we TRY to get rid of these Corporate controlled, Paperless voting machines.

I have to say, when I first tried out the New Diebold Touch screen Voting machine in 2002, I was thrilled. But when I saw my Democratic Governor's 14% point lead turn into a 5% deficit OVERNIGHT, that was all the wake up call I needed to tell me that you can cast all the "Principled Votes" in the world, but at the end of the day, it comes down to, is it a person from my state or a Republican CORPORATION from OHIO who is counting my vote, that really matters.

[Bouvet_Island]

40. I disagree that the situation is hopeless,

you will just have to make the decistion you will not allow this to take place again.

[KatieB]

42. With total control REPUGS also can't blame any crisis on DEMS

Controlling the presidency, Senate, House and Supreme Court it will be pretty tough for them to try to blame the ensuing deterioration of our country on the Democrats as they are so prone to do.

Just hearing those REPUGS talk today made me that much more devoted to changing this country. Their lies and distortions were just so obvoius.

[Up2Late]

47. Go get'em KatieB

That the spirit we need :hug:

[FreepFryer]

43. Seeing today's events as anything less than the "Best of Both Worlds" for

Dems is shortsighted. We advanced our long arc, while holding our short arc. We maneuvered the GOP into bad territory to argue from.

We feinted, they punched, we punched... and we landed a great hit on them. We knew we'd lose the round, but they'll have a cut above their eye for the rest of the match...

[Up2Late]

48. Exactly

And if * get any of his ludicrous ideas past this Republican congress, I personally think, that will be the straw that broke the Camels back, The foreign Capital will start flooding OUT of our Economy, but you know, I bet they'll try to blame us Democrats.

Check these out:
<http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/121504_insider_selling.shtml>

Rampant Insider Selling Raises Red Flags

By Rachel Beck
Associated Press
Dec. 14, 2004

NEW YORK - Talk about a double standard. While corporate leaders tout the benefits of investors owning their stocks, many executives seem to be running for the doors themselves.

Selling of shares by insiders - which includes executives and other top officers and directors at a company - has been rampant in recent months, with sales rising to their highest level in more than four years in November. (for more, click link)

"Japan Threatens Huge Dollar Sell-Off"

Heather Stewart,
The London Observer
Sunday December 5, 2004

<http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,6903,1366578,00.html>

Japan is warning the White House that there will be 'enormous capital flight' from the dollar if the Bush administration maintains its laissez-faire approach to the mounting currency crisis.
Tokyo fears that Japan's strongest economic recovery in a decade could be derailed by the sudden appreciation in the yen against the greenback.

The criticism of President Bush's inaction, by a senior member of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party, will be taken as a veiled threat that Japan could start to sell off its multi-billion-dollar holdings of US Treasuries. 'The Japanese government is going to ask for a strong dollar policy; if it continues to fall, there would be enormous capital flight from the dollar,' said Kaoru Yosano, chairman of the LDP's policy council, adding that Japan would be calling on its fellow G7 governments to demand the US deal with the massive fiscal deficit that has helped to prompt the dollar's decline.
(for more, click link)

Economic "Armageddon" Predicted
<http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/112304_economic_armageddon.shtml>
By Brett Arends/ On State Street
Tuesday, November 23, 2004

Stephen Roach, the chief economist at investment banking giant Morgan Stanley, has a public reputation for being bearish.

But you should hear what he's saying in private.

Roach met select groups of fund managers downtown last week, including a group at Fidelity.

His prediction: America has no better than a 10 percent chance of avoiding economic "Armageddon."

Press were not allowed into the meetings. But the Herald has obtained a copy of Roach's presentation. A stunned source who was at one meeting said, "it struck me how extreme he was - much more, it seemed to me, than in public."
(more, click link)

[GetTheRightVote]

49. They have killed, murdered Democracy today, all of them

They not only steal election after election, they have murdered that which we should hold dear today, our Democracy.

Today was the death of Democracy, not the birth of reform:

They have been trying that for years now and still do not have it right to the point that another election was stolen from us. I will never ever vote for a Democrat with an exception for Sen. Barbara Boxer and the Reps. in the house who stood up for us today. As a reward to David Cobb, I will be signing up for the Green Party. I am sick of the Repubs and their other party the Democrats. I never thought in my life I would think so little of them but I do now.

They do not represent us, they represent the other Republican party, you had better start calling them the baby elephants. What are we, are we battered wifes who are going to keep going back for more beatings from our Democratic Party husbands. I loved this party because I thought they were something that they are not, get over it people, they do not care about us anymore then the Republicans, FDR is died as far as these people are concerned.

The Democrats are pussy whipped by the Republicans, are their actions today not enough for you. I for one am not going back to be their whipping post anymore, I will leave that up to the rest of you who like to get beat up and ignored like the abused children of supposabily loving parents. I wish you luck in your destructive path holding to a dream that was given its death shot today.