A little note to the "democratic Senators" that voted NO:

[RaulVB]

You better kiss good bye any desire of claming legitimacy in the future!

Or don't even try contacting me asking for damn money!

Barbara Boxer will have my support and any help I can give her.

THE REST CAN "SHOVE IT..."

[Goldeneye]

1. Can you tell me one reason they should've voted yea?

Besides spite? If we want to get things done we need the issue of vote reform to stay viable. It isn't viable if they nail us as sore losers.

I believe there was fraud. I believe Kerry won, and I believe time will prove it. I know the senators swore to uphold the constitution, and while I don't know that they did that today, I think they are on the right track.

[booksenkatz]

2. Let me make sure I understand

You are saying that if we play nice and go along to get along, they will be nice massas and let us have some of our issues brought to the table and passed and enacted into law? Really?

[RaulVB]

4. Because only "wishful thinkers" would refuse to see the fraud evidence!

The documents are there and they are a sorry bunch if they think this is "business as usual..."

Not anymore!

[Goldeneye]

38. I agree...plenty of evidence of fraud

But I am happy we got this done today, and I respect every dem. senator and rep. who spoke. It would have shown unity for them to all vote together. I have no problem agreeing with you there. But if it were voted on party lines, wouldn't that pretty much make it a partisan issue. The repubs. are already working overtime to tell us its sour grapes, and were a bunch of sore losers. We need to avoid the image of partisan sore losers at all costs if we want to get things done. This was just a show to get the ball rolling, to get people to take notice and I think they did...time will tell.

this is kind of a general response to all the responses to my orig. post.

[Peace Patriot]

39. A good project would be to get hold of that electronic vote...

...I saw them do in the House. Did they also do a recorded vote in the Senate? Do you know how to access these votes?

[sunnystarr]

5. I'll give you one good reason ....

To have a show of solidarity. Not ONE Repuke voted yay on either side. Dems need to learn to stick together.

[earth mom]

17. You said it! n/t

[pbartch]

20. YOU ARE 100% CORRECT. Hillary, Obama, Kennedy, Wyden

all "spoke" in favor......but they wouldn't put their vote where their mouth was.

[bunny planet]

37. so true. so FUBAR

[Persimmon]

41. Call Congress -- TELL THEM What You Think Today

Tell them what you think. I just called Hillary's office and an unusually respectful man made it clear that they're very interested to hear what we have to say. I suspect that today, especially, they need our feedback.

I stated -- and will tell every Democratic member of congress the same -- the clearest messages I could articulate. That it's a disgrace we have verifiable paper trails on ATM machines but not on voting machines. That if she'd like to continue to have the support of her constituents, she'd better get very very serious about this issue. And so on. Brief, polite, passionate.

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

---------
Note to the DU forum: Yep, I'm a 'newbie', this is my first post. I've been reading DU for a long time though, and I have the greatest respect and appreciation for the quality and breadth of debate that occurs here. I'm a very regular reader of many political and non-political blogs, MSM, non-MSM, and so on-- trying to understand what's going on around me, and seeking a way to make an impact on what sometimes feels like a political system hopelessly bogged down by bad-actors and inertia.

[laundry_queen]

35. yep. That's the bottom line. n/t

[jmc777]

7. Whether they voted yes or no.....

....they're going to be painted as "sore losers" anyway. Watch for the "sore losers" soundbites on the MSM. (If the MSM actually gives this any decent airtime.)

[Hawkowl]

8. Voting Nay was the right thing to do

Goldeneye,

Get What done? Are you pulling my leg? You're the one who needs to get realistic. You don't appease bullies, crooks, liars and cheats and say pretty please massah may I take a leak now. You stand up, you fight back, you obstruct and you scream FRAUD!!.

You are completely delusional if you think the repukes are going to play nice and throw us a few bones because the Democrats are still trying to appease. The repukes will never respect us if they don't fear us--it is their character flaw, not ours.

You don't bring a friggin bouquet to a friggin gunfight.

[Kelvin Mace]

10. No, I respectfully disagree.

The taste of Republican butt will not improve with age. They showed they can be intimidated. In the House, only blacks stood for our right to vote.

I am ashamed of my race.

The Dems showed they will accept defeat every time.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[RaulVB]

I agree with you (n/t)

[loritooker]

23. But the imagery! Blech!

[TexasSissy]

16. To show solidarity on this important issue with their brothers and sisters

in the Dem. Party. One doesn't have to vote NO if one doesn't believe the outcome would be changed. It is enough that several members of the party wanted a chance to debate the subject of voting irregularities in the 2004 election in Ohio (of which there is ample evidence). Why wouldn't someone in those persons' party vote to allow them to have a debate on the subject?

A lack of solidarity has been a continuing problem in the Dem. Party. When will they learn? Voting "yes" doesn't mean the election would be overturned. All it would mean is that they were standing by their colleagues who wanted to discuss the issue in an open forum for the American public to hear. That is the least we can expect of the politicians in our party - to stand by each other in matters of great importance, which this is.

[ginnyinWI]

3. where can I get a list of who voted nay and yea? n/t

[E_Smith]

6. Can you explain why

no Dem election board supervisors in Ohio objected to the Ohio vote? This point was raised by several pugs. If they didn't object to it how can we expect the congressional Dems to?

[Kelvin Mace]

12. If what they said is true

it may be a point, but given the lies that I heard, I wouldn't bet on that one.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[regularjoe]

29. Job protection?

[Machiavelli05]

9. stop being so short sighted.

What is wrong with you?

Youre monday morning quarterbacking of Democrats has gotten to a new extreme.


Maybe with more people like you - more GOP members will win seats.

[RaulVB]

13. You must know some about the GOP's wishes, I gather (n/t)

[itzamirakul]

15. Reminder: This is a discussion board...

People are free to express their opinions even if those opinions do not relflect your own. If Democrats choose to rail on about other Democrats, that is their right. It is not being short-sighted...It is being honest.

[Walt Starr]

11. Durbin guaranteed he'd get my vote any time!

So did Obama!

[PennyMan]

14. I Think Its Time To Go Independent Or Green Party

[derby378]

25. That's what the neo-cons WANT you to do

I think it's time we reclaimed the Democratic Party from the forces of mediocrity and complacency and put it back in the hands of the people. We are the party of Jefferson, the party of FDR, the party of Kennedy. Bust a move.

[tx_dem41]

27. Have fun!

We'll do the hard grassroots work here. Sorry, life ain't easy for you!

[Niche]

18. Sadly I'm with you on this... add a few Congress People in

your support though.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

19. Raul. I agree with you 100%

[RaulVB]

22. Thanks!, You know...

Is unbelievable that these "leaders" are so shortsighted...

[roguevalley]

21. I hope the ones who voted against counting, including Hilary

know they can kiss my ass. I will not be evaluating them for any further
elections. They can all kiss. my. ass.

[ClassWarrior]

24. Nahhh... don't tell 'em to shove it. Tell 'em you're pissed...DEFINITELY.

They'll learn. We just need to show them some good ol' fashioned Progressive love.

<LOL>

NGU.

[RaulVB]

26. Ok, I'm PISSED...

But more convinced than ever!

[RollergirlVT]

36. I was planning on...

photocopying the check I'm sending to Boxer and mailing it off to MY dem rep to let them know just How pissed I am and how politically powerful standing up for the right thing can be.

[Karenca]

28. I'm with the

minority here, and I have to agree with you.
It's as if we only can claim legitimacy as a party if we kiss the repukes ass?
I do not understand this way of thinking at all.
They fought in Ukraine, and they are seeing results.
I am a Democrat, and I will not abandon my party, but I am disappointed with them.

[imenja]

30. keep it civil

Being nasty like that isn't going to help. Express your disappointment, say you expected more. They are more likely to pay attention to something written with decorum rather than vindictives. Despite how you feel about it, it's good strategy. You want to get your point across in the most effective manner possible.

[roenyc]

31. conyers said something about 5 senators.. think he doesnt know?

[electropop]

32. I second that

In '08 I'm either voting Green, or for the Boxer/Tubbs-Jones ticket. The rest of the so-called Dems may as well change their affiliation to Republican in name, as they already have in deed.

[earthside]

33. Senate Dems: Drop Dead

The basic message is this: Senate Democrats to Congressional Black Caucus - Drop Dead!

Are you getting the feeling that the elite Washington DC Democrats believe that actually their problem is their base?

Boxer ... just one ... just one Democratic Senator with the courage to show solidarity with the members of the Congressional Black Caucus and progressives in the House.

[brindis_desala]

40. You're right but they have misdiagnosed the problem

It is up to us to prove that were it not for fraud and voter suppression Democrats would control both branches of government. Even with the corrupt MSM and all the shenanigans Kerry STILL won. It's for us to convince them. But first we've got to fix the machines...

[eowyn_of_rohan]

34. Does anyone know if Feingold spoke up today?

If not, IMO, that is 2 big strikes against him which cancels out his voting against the Patriot Act.

[SammyWinstonJack]

42. Well

You "whining asshole" you! How dare you question the events of today! I agree! The rest can "SHOVE IT..."

[FreepFryer]

43. Democratic Party Bash-n-split Post #3 and counting...

[RaulVB]

44. After I started working on November 3rd, 2004, 1:30 AM...

I think I kind of have that right.

I called Kerry dozens of times and during his fucking campaign I gave money and advice without RECEIVING A SINGLE FUCKING REPLY.

Yep, I think I kind of have that right...

[FreepFryer]

45. You are of course entitled to your own opinions, informed by experience.

But this is on a national level, and we need to give ourselves to the struggle.

People before us were lynched, assaulted, arrested, marginalized and abused to make progress towards 'one person one vote'.

I'm not trying to mock you or insult your opinion, but I have to say I think it's silly to give up or be disheartened 'cause you didn't get enough personal attention from your candidate.

[RaulVB]

46. Is not about the "personal attention..."

Is the lack of common sense of those who call themselves "leaders..." what gets me.