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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:23 PM
Original message
you call THIS a victory?
getting Republicans 'annoyed'?

They have just successfully stolen another election, with all Democrats Senators except one licking Bush's behind and some are calling this a victory.

How low have we descended.

This objection will be voted down with 99% of Democrats voting with Republicans. DEMOCRATS VOTING WITH REPUBLICANS. Not even a debate on the irregularities will take place. Let alone an investigation.

And John Kerry? MISSING IN ACTION, as usual. To him I say: good-bye, Senator, good-riddance, and don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Today Democrats and Republicans are now officially the same piece of HUMAN WASTE.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. they didn't steal the election
they would have tried if Bush was going to lose, like he did in 2000.

But this time Bush actually won.
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scottxyz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Who told you that Cocoa, Psychic Network?
I thought we had a debate today that exposed the fact that the voting machines don't work right.

So where do you get off saying Bush won? Whether or not he did - that is the question that cannot be proven given our pathetic voting machinery.

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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
44. He's sitting in the winner's chair...
...and will continue to do so. He certainly won the office, if not the actual election. If an actual election can even be said to have occurred. See, that's the real issue for me...

All we appear to have "won" is an airing of some of our grievances. Is anything going to come of today's vote and debate that couldn't have occurred without them?

I appreciate Boxer's courageous stance, but I'm not sure how I can support any of the rest who voted "no." They have voiced their official opinions that an electoral system that was so obviously hijacked is just fine, and will wring their hands until more voting machines are delivered to some precincts--studiously ignoring the fact that the voting machines themselves are the greatest problem. No, they'll be satisfied with disenfranchisement, as long as no one has to stand in line for four hours.

I find that all I have to celebrate is the courage of Conyers & Co., plus one senator. :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Karl Rove should hire you.
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kitkat65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. Bullshit
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Karenca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. they did steal the election.
AND THAT IS HOW THIS ALL STARTED.
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
34. Kiss my ass! (n/t)
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buddysmellgood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
52. You can't prove it.
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #52
75. HEY there, buddySG: Do you know if Feingold spoke today?
He did nothing else, and I am hoping he at least spoke up...
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buddysmellgood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #75
95. I don't think he did. He was busy grilling Gonzalez however. Russ is
Edited on Thu Jan-06-05 10:06 PM by buddysmellgood
the only one I'll give a pass to. His vote on the Patriot Act carries a lot of water. I know he made his decision regarding the contest based on something other than fear. I do wish he had taken a stand. I'm really disgusted with those who stood and made pretty speeches and then didn't vote with Boxer. They just don't seem to have the courage of their convictions.
---
My kids, 7 and 9, are bigtime LOTRings fans. Me too. But you would just love what my 7-year-old did. He took a KFC bucket and cut to eyes out to make a helmet with a piece that just covers his nose. He says he is a rider of Rohan. I'll take and post a picture. It's hilarious.
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #95
98. I don't know what to think of Russ...
He did vote against the Patriot Act, then again he voted for allowing Ashcroft to be Attorney General, in spite of a LOT of pressure from constituents and Wis. newspapers, asking him not to.
I remember how he was explaining his decision for a good year afterwards...

I feel he really did not do his duty as our public servant yesterday...he ought to have at least spoken. oh well.

Your son's creative idea for a helmet sounds very cute and funny, btw! I would love to see a picture :)
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
73. Yup. And black is white and night is day.
and all the vote fraud allegations are pure fantasy, and standing up for democracy is going to invite terrorist attacks against our country...
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berniew1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
88. What do you base your statement on?? Have you looked at evidence.
There was widespread and systematic voter suppression of minority voters, dirty tricks, vote machine fraud, and other vote manipulation in Ohio, New Mexico, and Florida- that was of magnitude enough to call in question who won those states.

http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html
http://www.flcv.com/EIRSFla.html
http://northnet.org/minstrel/alpage.htm
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19
http://www.helpamericarecount.org/NewMexicoData/NewMexi...
http://www.flcv.com/bernalil.html
etc.

and also similar patterns in other states where the suppression and fraud did not change the election results including vote machine fraud in Calif., Pennsylvania, Washington, Texas, etc.
http://www.flcv.com/orangets.html
http://www.flcv.com/snohomis.html
http://www.flcv.com/mercerco.html
etc.

(the voter suppression of minorities in Mercer County is the worst I've ever seen-followup needed)

The unethical and illegal actions were so systematic and widespread that this cannot be allowed to continue uninvestigated and unpunished. There was a huge amount of obvious malfeasance that should be investigated and dealt with.

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berniew1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Newly released Media Exit Poll- strong evidence Kerry won
Newly released Media Exit Poll- strong evidence Kerry won

1) 59% of the 17% who did NOT vote in 2000 but who did in 2004 voted for Kerry. Just 39% for Bush.

2) 65% of those who did NOT vote for Bush or Gore in 2000 voted for Kerry. Just 13% for Bush and 16% for Nader.

3) 91% of those who voted for Gore, voted for Kerry.

4) 90% of those who voted for Bush in 2000, voted for Bush in 2004.

5) 20% (approx) of all voters are new voters. Of these voters according to the exit polls 65% voted Kerry and 35% voted Bush

6)The exit poll from the South shows Kerry won 64% of the Hispanic Vote.


7) Kerry's margin of victory was INCREASING, not decreasing as the day grew later


Some common myths regarding need tor adjustment dispelled by the Newly Released poll data:

1. The earlier exit poll numbers oversampled women.

Wrong. The 7:30 p.m. exit poll numbers consisted of 54% women and 46% men. The final exit poll numbers included the exact same percentages.

2. The earlier exit poll numbers oversampled minorities.

Wrong. The 7:30 p.m. exit poll numbers consisted of 11% blacks and 9% hispanics. The final exit poll numbers included 11% blacks and 8% hispanics.

3. The earlier exit poll numbers oversampled democrats (i.e., republicans voted later in the day).

Wrong. The 7:30 p.m. exit poll numbers consisted of 38% democrats, the final exit poll numbers consisted of 37%.

4. The earlier exit poll numbers undersampled rural voters.

Wrong. The 7:30 p.m. exit poll numbers consisted of 16% rural voters, same as the final exit poll numbers.


Newly Released Exit polls also show Kerry won in all major groups of voters except in the South

HORIZONTAL WEIGHTED
PARTYID Vertical Bush Kerry Nader Bush Kerry Nader
Dem 38% 9% 90% 1% 3.4% 34.2% 0.4%
Repub 36% 92% 7% 0% 33.1% 2.5% 0.0%
Indep 26% 45% 52% 2% 11.7% 13.5% 0.5%

100% 48.2% 50.2% 0.9%

IDEOLOGY
Liberal 22% 12% 86% 1% 2.6% 18.9% 0.2%
Moderate 45% 41% 57% 1% 18.5% 25.7% 0.5%
Conserv 33% 82% 16% 1% 27.1% 5.3% 0.3%

100% 48.2% 49.9% 1.0%

RELIGION
Protestant 53% 56% 43% 1% 29.7% 22.8% 0.5%
Catholic 27% 49% 50% 1% 13.2% 13.5% 0.3%
Jewish 3% 23% 77% 0% 0.7% 2.3% 0.0%
Other 7% 20% 75% 4% 1.4% 5.3% 0.3%
None 11% 29% 70% 1% 3.2% 7.7% 0.1%

100% 48.2% 51.6% 1.2%


MILITARY
Yes 18% 55% 43% 1% 9.9% 7.7% 0.2%
No 82% 46% 53% 1% 37.7% 43.5% 0.8%

100% 47.6% 51.2% 1.0%

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/pdfs/Mitofsky4zonedata /
http://www.appliedresearch.us/sf/epdiscrep.htm


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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. Waaaah-wahhh...
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Casablanca Donating Member (549 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
35. Spoken like a Republican. "Whiners, get over it!" nt
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #35
47. And calling us human waste oozes dignity.
:eyes:

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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Allow me, mzmolly
:nopity:

:)
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Heh.
Thanks! :hi:
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. I'm simply concerned for your arms, mzmolly
Tonight will be a long night with many threads. Don't want you getting tired!

:evilgrin:
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Casablanca Donating Member (549 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #53
69. I'm concerned with a lot more than your arms.
:evilgrin:
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Casablanca Donating Member (549 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #47
68. Who called you "human waste"?
A little defensive of you, don't ya think?

A little ... Republicanesque, to assert comments that weren't made.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #68
74. Apparently you missed the OP?
Edited on Thu Jan-06-05 06:54 PM by mzmolly
"Today Democrats and Republicans are now officially the same piece of HUMAN WASTE."

You see I am a Democrat and most people here at "DEMOCRATIC Underground are DEMOCRATS.

I assert that what is "Reublicanesque" is calling Democrats "human waste."
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LiberalUprising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #74
80. God molly
Give it a rest already.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. Bite me.
Edited on Thu Jan-06-05 07:13 PM by mzmolly
:hi:

I was asked who called me human waste, I answered.
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OKthatsIT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree....what does this do to rectify the wrongs?
or make the vote sound?
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. What led you to believe that would be some magical rectification...
of wrongs today? This is hard work, and we all need to have the perseverance to keep fighting.
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. Not a victory, but a battle that had to be fought
Remember, Santa Ana captured the Alamo.
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PaganPreacher Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Remember the Alamo?
The Texicans gave their lives, to slow Santa Ana's advance and give Sam Houston the time he needed to assemble his army.

What comparable level of sacrifice did the Democrats in Congress make today?

Not much assembling of an army going on here, either.



The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
43. What level of sacrifice?
Well, a lot of people on this board seem to want them to be skinned alive!

The point is that an objection was made. This is more than we achieved in 2000. And this objection was made because our senators and congresspeople heard our demands that it be made. WE are that gathering army.

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FreepFryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. Here's a kleenex. You look like you need some quiet time.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
36. Maybe you should offer the kleenix to her. She knows this was no victory.


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buzzard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. When was that picture taken?
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. It was one of many on this DU link:
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FreepFryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #36
77. I had a tear in my eye at that moment too - Stephanie Tubbs-Jones
was powerful.

To decontextualize a photo like that is prime freepery.

:hi:
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. What worries you more: Bush cheated and won, or won fair and square?
We'd better be worried more about a fair election that we lost.

We lost. On to '06.
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Worst Username Ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. .
:nopity:
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. We got this on the record, it was a victory
This is building a movement people, the Republicans looks shrill and childlike.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
42. They OWN the Executive, Legislative, Judiciary and the Press.
Do you really think it was a victory? The havoc that they can bring to our country now is chilling. They have marines practicing drills in Columbus, Ohio. Do you think they are training there for the streets of Baghdad?
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joeunderdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #42
94. Don't forget SCOTUS, FCC, FEC, FBI and CIA...but who's counting? n/t
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. Then why are you still here?
Hate for you to demean yourself by hanging around with us HUMAN WASTE.

Buh-bye.

NGU.


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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
31. Here here, go post with the human waste on Republican forums
I say!
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. I was surprised by one thing
There was little wild eyed rehashing of conspiracies and a huge helping of discussion on the election problems we all know exist.

The effect that most took me by surprise was that this procedural 'hiccup' actually will end up giving 100% legitimacy to Bush's election.
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
14. It's sad how low our expectations are... We're just being realistic though
n/t
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keithjx Donating Member (758 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. Remember what RR said yesterday.
Now both of Bush's terms are marred with controversy. Last time, the SCt had to give him the office, and this time Repugs had to vote him in.

Just a month ago, we were begging for ANY attention to be paid to this. Now we've had 4 hrs on CSPAN about it and you're complaining? Now we have 33 dems in the house Agreeing with us and you're bitching about it?

Sorry it's not the sun, moon and stars, but ya gotta start somewhere.
KJ
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
17. .
:nopity:
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jayctravis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
18. Um, Kerry's in Iraq doing Bush's job. (n/t)
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. You must PROVE they stole another election
and believe us they have tried.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
51. My guess along with Bush's stolen votes, there were some
Congressional votes stolen too. If anyone tries, look into Florida and Texas.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
20. Hey now!
Don't be a "whining asshole"! :eyes:
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Really, I mean calling Democrats human waste is totally accurate.
Forget the 40 or so that put their jobs and reputations on the line today ... HUMAN WASTE.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Looks like you only have one choice on what to do....
have fun with all that!
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. What do I know?
I am just a "whining asshole"!
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. And, I .. "HUMAN WASTE"
:hi:

I guess were not that far apart after all.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #41
55. Wow
"Whining Asshole" and "Human Waste" I think I have struck gold! :hi:
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
22. For you with love.
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
24. US Constitution doesn't contain a right for Americans to vote in elections
Edited on Thu Jan-06-05 04:50 PM by The Judged
Further, Senator Tom Harkin added to his above disclosure by stating that Americans would be shocked to learn of this!

How many times in the history of this nation has the Senate offered this truth on the record to Americans in a publicized forum (C-Span)?

How can any FCC licensed media outlet be said to be acting on the American Public's behalf, when they fail to take notice of Senator Harkin's remarks, their truthfulness and accuracy, and to inform the American people of this fact and where this fact was divulged!

Take notice, this fact is NOT taught in public schools!
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
64. Tom Harkin is absolutely right!
As I mentioned on another thread, I can't believe I could reach the ripe old age of 58 before I realized the Constitution contains *NO* explicit guarantee of the right of every American citizen to vote!!! And it's not like I just fell off the turnip truck either...I consider myself pretty well informed. There is something very badly WRONG with this picture!
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #64
76. This subject deserves plenty of attention and activism! See my thread!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x256544

Please! Don't let this issue become lost in the whirlwind!
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mdhunter Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
26. If Jesse Jackson Jr.'s speech was on the FRONT PAGE, it would be a victory
Edited on Thu Jan-06-05 04:44 PM by mdhunter
Best of the day, imho.
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Not a Sheep Donating Member (199 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. YES, he was great & most American's would agree IF they heard him. /eom
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Califooyah Operative Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
29. Yea , you figured it out.....
we're working our asses off to annoy republicans.
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Peter Frank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:47 PM
Original message
So, nothing was gained???
Give up if you want, but that won't get you anywhere.

I think the discussions on both floors of Congress will go a long way toward expediting voting reform -- along with the momentum generated by prominent Democrats stepping up to the plate in the most visible arena in the nation.

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HR_Pufnstuf Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
30. ..a victory for the new media??
Edited on Thu Jan-06-05 04:49 PM by HR_Pufnstuf
a resounding YES!

There WAS a story here the whole time.


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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
33. So we get to work on grassroots election reform
------------------------------------------------------
Election reform can help save this country!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm
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Peter Frank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. That would be a good thing to have before 2006...
...It would be nice to see exit the polls match actual results again.
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
38. Ooohhhh please
:nopity:

Go take a nap. Maybe you'll be in a better mood when you wake up.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
39. It was a victory in so many ways.
1. A few brave congresspeople stood up for the People.

2. There was (finally) media coverage of the problems in this election.

3. These proceedings will be on congressional record, giving a foundation for election reform.

I congratulate Barbara Boxer for her moxie, Rep. John Conyers for his strength & fortitude, the DUers who work in the media (like Will Pitt, for example), the bloggers, the activists who visited the congressional offices, plus all the DUers & other Democrats who called & wrote the congressmen.

It was a good day for standing on principle. And history was made today. It's a huge victory. The People were heard.
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Poetrygrl Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
40. 'splain it to me, please!
What I don't understand is this:
On the "Boxer Rebellion" the Republicans are calling us all conspiracy theorists, nut jobs and to get over it, but they're doing the same thing out in Washington with the govenors race!

What the heck! NOW who should GET OVER IT?!?!


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6793577/

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complain jane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
45. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE PAST ELECTION, IT'S ABOUT THE FUTURE
And if you believe Bush won fair and square, lovely, but that doesn't change the FACT that an investigation should take place into whether or not we have a real, legitimate voting process while we have voting machines deployed by partisan suppliers who donated heavily to the Bush campaign, no chance of a recount, clear evidence of "errors" with these machines (at best) and no transparent process of counting the "votes".

What the FUCK? Do you seriously think that if the tables were turned, those pieces of crap wouldn't be raising bloody hell? Yes, they would, and guess what?

THAT'S WHY THEY ARE IN THE GOD DAMN WHITE HOUSE.

It's no longer about Bush winning. It's about the future of this fucking country. It's about VVVVOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTINNNGGGG. And actually making changes instead of sitting on our asses and throwing in the towel because we're afraid of making waves.

Back down because we don't want to look like sore losers? Nooo, maybe we could correct the record, inform the public that these things happened and investigate the allegations, break some balls until we have the answers about the voting machine irregularities and fucking DO something.

So, we weren't going to win the election so everyone throws in the towel? I'm so fucking fed up right now I can't see straight.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #45
67. we just let them get away with this major
THEFT, don't give me this nonsense 'this is about the future.'

The future has just been thrown DOWN THE TOILET by John Kerry's failure to REPORT FOR DUTY.
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complain jane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. That's what I was trying to say.
And, the implications of this, on future elections.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
54. My! What large sweeping generalizations you have grandma! n/t
You forgot to stomp your foot and take your ball home so nobody else can play.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Do you ever notice that
some posters, after composing highly inflammatory posts complete with hysterical headings, never return to comment on the response? That seems odd.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #56
92. When the response...
... is as bone stupid and trite as "take your ball and go home", you can hardly blame them.
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Machiavelli05 Donating Member (335 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
57. You extremists are just like freepers...
Except youre louder, more obnoxious and come from teh oppossite extreme. Unfettered rambling and uncontrollable complaining coupled with continuous contradiction and second guessing does no one any good.

Malatesta: we've heard you enough times. You distort the facts of the Democratic party to advance your own agenda - are you a Freeper in disguse? Or maybe a third party member. Either way, youre a troll and all you want to do is start a fight. Go away.
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SPDBoston Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. You might want to read this again Machiavelli05
The DU rules are very clear that you are not allowed to personally attack other members, nor are you allowed to call another member a disruptor.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html#...

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Machiavelli05 Donating Member (335 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #59
65. what do you want me to say?
This user repeatedly attempts to undermine DemocraticUnderground.

This user is offensive at many times.

Uses personal attacks constantly.

And dare I say it, is a DISRUPTOR. *gasp*
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #65
93. Not everyone ..
... who disagrees with you is a "disruptor". Tough concept, but try to get your mind around it.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
58. With all due respect, you've always slammed Dems on this board and I for
one am totally sick and fucking tired of it.

If you HATE the Democratic party...please do us all a favor and post your hatred elsewhere.

There are Dems I am proud of and Dems I deplore..I, too, have my issues with the party, but would like to see those issues framed in a more constructive manner.

I completely feel the reason this board is getting overrun by freepers is because of posts such as yours (and I KNOW you are not a freeper) making it easy for them to pretend they are left leaning..when in fact they can make a post just like your OP for shits and giggles and sew acrimony amongst us.

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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
60. Today was an accomplishment, but not a victory
Kind of like scoring a field goal in a football game where you are behind 48-0. Should we be happy for small victories or disappointed with the game?

I sympathize with your thoughts.

Many people should be congratulated on getting the debate to happen -- a significant effort -- but it should not have been that hard.
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Lil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
61. ENABLERS - That is what most DEM Senators are. Victory ONLY if we use this
. . .info to get them replaced. Before we can move forward, we must recognize & replace the ones that chose to dance with the GOP bullies.

They needed to "stay comfortable," and I am sicked by their cowardice.
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Machiavelli05 Donating Member (335 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #61
84. you have something in common with some other people I was reading about..
Edited on Thu Jan-06-05 08:13 PM by Machiavelli05
The folks over at www.godhatesfags.com ALSO call the Dem Senators enablers... they call them "fag" enablers. All that hate towards them... and why? b/c they dont vote the way those bastards want them to.

Then YOU call them GOP enablers... nice. Why? b/c you disagree with them... they MUST be intentionally allowing the GOP to do whatever they want.

Im rolling my eyes over and over and over again.


Extremism is extremism - it may come from different sides fo the spectrum but its ultimately all the same.



Edit: I apologize in advance for the word usage above. Trust me, it wasnt my idea for them to use that terminology. Dont particularly like it myself.
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Lil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #84
99. Enablers-help addicts remain addicted to power, work, anger, alcohol and
other behaviors destructive to themselves and those with whom they associate.

Let me know if you would like more information.
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sepia_steel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
62. What should we have done?
NOTHING?
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #62
72. are you insane??
First, John Kerry should never have conceded that fast. Second, he should've declared Bush an ELECTION THIEF on National TV every hour on the hour, 7 days a week.
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Machiavelli05 Donating Member (335 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #72
82. Hows your political career doing?
This monday morning QBing is insane.

How many elections have YOU won or have the strategies you've implemented worked to win?
How many legislative battles have you won?
How many bills have you led through congress?

Im gonna guess none.

So basically its

Dems: 43125
Malatesta: 0


Youve got some catching up to do.

No one is holding a gun to your head to vote for them. However, we do expect some common decency on this board. Its called Democraticunderground.com YOu dont have to agree with everything but a certain level of prudence should be used when objecting. Your unmitigated attacks are not tolerated. Feel free to share them, but not in a place that is meant to discuss the DEMOCRATIC PARTY. Not plot its demise or rehash every mistake the party has made.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #82
91. Karl Rove loves you
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Machiavelli05 Donating Member (335 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #91
97. you read his book..
if the person disagrees, accuse that person of being the sworn enemy.
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FreepFryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
63. Another Democratic Party sucks, let's kill it post. How original.
Edited on Thu Jan-06-05 05:43 PM by FreepFryer
Just defect to a new party and stop trying to undermine the Dems. It won't work.
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brindis_desala Donating Member (866 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
66. This can be a negative or a positive but it depends on US.
Here's what is possible thanks to Senator Boxer.
1) Conyers 100 page report is in the record.
2) The public knows that fraud and voter suppression is a problem that Republicans choose to ignore. Savvy pols will ask why?
3) We get a verified paper trail for 06. Why? because Democrats might try and tamper with the ballot too.
4) No go? Not without a fight. Now the Democrats will know they fail, we walk, they're toast. Keep at 'em. Don't like the ones that wimped out?...run a fresh candidate. What's the choice?
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sepia_steel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
71. Uhhhh... yep!
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
78. What goodbye. He's still Mass. Senator until 2008
He ain't goin' no place.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. don't remind me.
:puke:
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FreepFryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #79
83. We won't have to. You'll have plenty of time to get used to the idea again
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greatscott15 Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. Bush Won Both Times
Sorry to disagree folks, but Bush won this. He also won in 2000. Maybe in 2000, he didn't get the popular vote, but that is how our constitution is setup. If we don't like it, then change it.

I know many here don't want to hear it. But sometimes your candidate just looses. No great conspiracies. No voter fraud. Kerry was not a great candidate. Heck, I wouldn't even call him a good candidate. I think there were 4-5 others that could have won. Would probably have won.

Bush won fair and square. I don't like it, but that's what happened. Everyone here has been delulding themselves for weeks. Even months.

We need to search deep for the real reasons we are loosing. It's not vote fraud folks. It's not some grand conspiracy with Diebold.

Unless we wake up and address the root cause, we will continue to loose. Is that what you folks here want? Keep kidding ourselves about voter fraud, and we'll be crying like this again in 4 years.
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FreepFryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. Selected in '00. And your post is complete tripe.
Edited on Thu Jan-06-05 08:30 PM by FreepFryer
But you knew that.

It IS true that this means we can't be complacent. All of your post's other intimations (no fraud, kerry lost fair and square) are complete crap.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #85
90. Karl Rove is proud of you
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
86. The "human waste" thing was a stupid thing to say.
I don't have time to listen to stupid things.

:hi:
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
96. I call a duck a duck and I call a victory a victory!
Edited on Thu Jan-06-05 10:18 PM by Vinnie From Indy
I don't call a cat a ham sandwich so why would I call today anything other than what it is - a single battle fought and won. By the way, our country has fought internal and external battles to preserve our founding fathers gift of government by the people and for the people since the very day it was declared to be a new country. My point is that the struggle for freedom, liberty, justice and equality never ends and it never will. There are always new threats that have to be fought against and previous gains that must be protected. We happen to be in a particularly dangerous time in our nation's history in regard to preserving the most fundamental rights we enshrine in the Constitution. What happened today was not a magic bullet or new super weapon that ends the war, it was simply a signpost successfully planted firmly in the ground for the world to see that we will fight for our rights and we will not stop fighting. It is also a rallying point for all Americans to appreciate and defend their right to vote in future elections.
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