Resist the urge to punish those who voted 'nay'. That's the Rove trap.

[FreepFryer]

<edited to add new content:>

(from below post)

Continue the effort, apply pressure, demand - you are their constituent... but the 'trapdoor' vitriol is counterproductive.

We have to build and strengthen our base as the minority party. Not fracture and immolate.

[Hobarticus]

1. A voice of reason in wilderness....

RIP, '04.

On to '06!

[whosinpower]

5. RIP 2004

There will be nothing to work for in 2006.

RIP is permanent.

[Hobarticus]

9. Yes it is...that's why I say RIP, and move on to '06.

There is PLENTY to work for in '06...

[FreepFryer]

10. I agree - but not about whom.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Walt Starr]

4. BINGO!

I have to hand it to them, I *misunderestimated* the ability of the Democrats to so masterfully play this at a strategic level. They were BRILLIANT!

BTW, anybody got some ketchup for this crow?

[FreepFryer]

6. Hi Walt. Whether you had changed your view or not, I respect the strength

of your beliefs. Good to have you in the Democratic Party (as I assume you are).

[mzmolly]

12. Here ya go.

Only the best for you sir.

[ClarkUSA]

13. Good for you, Walt...remember this for the future...

we need your passion to move forward.

[genius]

7. We'll just kick their rear ends out of office in the primaries.

[AmerDem]

8. damn straight n/t

[TexasSissy]

11. No, I don't think so. I'm voting for cahones in the future.

Boxer apparently has cahones. Kerry does not.

[ClarkUSA]

14. Agreed

[glitch]

16. And we have some fine examples of cojones to promote

33 members of the House, and 1 fine Senator for promotion. Senate Leader, VP, Pres - all good.

Edited to add: we don't need to punish anyone. But we know who to promote now, so a very good day indeed.

[peacebird]

17. agreed. 100%

[Ignoramus]

26. yes, or ovaries

What I take away from all of this is, the democratic party is our enemy. In the situation again, I would still have voted for Kerry, but once again I would not be promoting Kerry until there was no option left, and I would continue to guard against being detoured by the republican's and their prison bitch Democrats.

Look, the result of everyone following the democratic party should be crystal clear in Kerry's big fuck you to the people of America, though everyone should have gotten it from Gore's big fuck you in 2000. Their role is clear, murder, torture, rape of the planet, all is a fair price to pay for some political power.

Please vote practically when the time comes, because you might as well, and support progressive actions even if they come from a Democrat, but don't allow yourself to think these people have your interest in mind, and stay focused on the real fight, which is for liberty and justice which is the opposite of the interest of those employed in our one party system.

[enough already]

15. Great Idea

Let's just keep doing the same things that keep failing election cycle after election cycle.

[FreepFryer]

22. Explain the political difference between your 'united front' and the Dems

that stood up.

The debate was forced, the issue raised, the Democratic Senators have spoken in support.

It's unreasonable to put them on the chopping block for today's conduct.

Concentrate on helping them defend and expand their seats, unless you disagree with them on substantive issues (like taxes, social security, defense, environmental issues, media corporatism, war, terror, education....).

[HR_Pufnstuf]

18. agree.

...let's punish the 80 dems who didnt show up for work today.

80/199 No Votes!?!

40% didnt come to work today???


That is THEIR own trap, not Rove's..

[imenja]

19. agree, let's praise the yeas instead

Send a note expressing your disappointment to the nays, but don't be nasty. it really doesn't help at all.

[RaulVB]

20. Rove ALREADY PURGED THE WHOLE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, sorry to tell you (n/t)

[HR_Pufnstuf]

27. Rove is a Lame-Duck Publicist.

let him go. He's gone soon.

[Nothing Without Hope]

21. Exactly--screaming abuse is not a convincing argument

...and we need to change some more minds to get where we need to go. Calm, reasoned presentation of TONS of solid evidence, carefully organized and indexed with masterful executive summaries. Treat them as if you expect them to have an open mind -- look them in the eye and let you know you hold them accountable for doing the right thing when they have looked at the evidence for themselves.

Pretty obvious. We have to be very selective about letting off steam from our frustration. Venting in the wrong place can cause a real setback. They will turn away that much more from insults. They have to be treated with professionalism. And as professionals they are expected to fulfill their responsibilities, including finding the truth and doing what they were elected to do -- uphold the Constitution and the laws of this land. Need to show them the way, but treat them with respect while doing it.

[Casablanca]

23. The "Rove trap" is for you to act according to what you think Rove wants.

Forget about Rove, do what is right and stop supporting two-faced politics.

[justice4all]

24. But keep the pressure on

for the work of real reform. It wouldn't hurt to thank those senators who spoke on the issue either.

[bunny planet]

25. But how do we make them accountable to us. I don't want to give up on the

Democratic party. I've been a Dem all my life. The Democratic Senators left Senator Boxer hanging out there all by herself. I find it inexplicable, and frankly, verging on unforgivable. They did not speak for their constituents when they voted no, so I am at a loss to explain why more of them did not stand up with Boxer. Do they think by making nice with the Republicans that they will be given a fair shake on the floor from now on. Come on, that's not going to happen. I'm shaking my head here, don't know what to think anymore. Don't know what the Dems think they've accomplished for themselves by being so ineffectual.

Don't want to be accused of being a DUDQ, so I'd better stop now.

[FreepFryer]

28. Continue the effort, apply pressure, demand - you are their constituent...

...but the 'trapdoor' vitriol is counterproductive

[bunny planet]

34. I never said anything about no 'trapdoor'. I'm just going to get to work

at the local level, like I've never done before. Rebuild a progressive party from the ground up, meet-ups here I come.

[glitch]

30. Who cares if you're accused of being DUDQ? It doesn't matter what others

think, be yourself! You're a Democrat for God's Sake!

(this pep talk is meant for anyone getting tired of being told to get in line, not just you bunny planet)

[bunny planet]

35. I wasn't really worried about being called a DUDQ (but I had my acceptance

speech all ready just in case).

[KnowerOfLogic]

29. Resist the urge to coddle sell-outs; it's the Rove trap. nt

[FreepFryer]

32. Impeach bush. fight the real enemy. That is our next battle.

[bemis12]

31. I doubt it's the Rove trap

But those threatening to vote out Dems sure aren't thinking very clearly.

[glitch]

33. We're talking primaries. nt