We weren't looking for magic, we were looking for the first serious fight.

[Casablanca]

What we got was a few principled Democrats voting that there WAS a reasonable doubt about the fitness of the electoral vote, and the majority of the Dems voting again (as they did in 2000) to just move on to the next fixed election.

This has been TWO CONSECUTIVE presidential elections where clear evidence of widespread and coordinated fraud have occurred. The Dems were called upon today, at the 11th hour, to finally acknowledge that the questions are serious enough to call the legitimacy of the vote into question.

Remember that Gregoire and the WA Dems didn't call the recount to overturn the election, they did it to make sure every vote counted, even if Rossi had ended up with the governorship. The Dems were not called upon today to vote to overturn Bush's re-election, they were called upon to defend the voting rights of all of the Ohio voters who were systematically screwed out of them. They were called upon to cast a vote out of principle and not out of political expediency.

And no matter how many of you rationalize it, all but a few Dems failed to do so. They did not seriously discuss the evidence - you couldn't in just two hours. They did not cast their vote based upon their confidence in the electoral count, just in the likelihood that the election result would be changed. This proves that the end DOES justify the means for them, just like the Republicans.

Today was a victory for the relative few that stood up for the principles of democracy, and a disgrace for the many that didn't. And I am one voter who will not forget, or rationalize away, this coordinated betrayal by the Dem "leadership".

[wiggs]

1. I agree. Let me also say.....

Let me first say that I recognize just getting the debate to happen was a major accomplishment and many people are to be congratulated for that.

Therein lies part of the sadness. It should not have been that hard to get people to mention voting irregularities in a public forum.

The dems actions today are largely consistent with the way they've been rolling over for 4 years. Nothing new. Therein also lies part of the sadness.

That lies continue to triumph over truth is sad.

That government is appearing more and more like a front to keep those at the top in power and wealth is sad.

That power steamrolls over what is right is sad.

I've read the many posts saying what a great day this is, and still don't feel that way. I realize it was an accomplishment, but that's different than victory or real progress. I don't see either. Analogous to being behind 48-0 in football and being thrilled after scoring a field goal?

Maybe tomorrow I'll feel differently.

[Casablanca]

2. I hope you don't feel differently tomorrow.

People who look at the whole glass seem to be rare. The rationalizers want you to engage in half-glass/half-assed rationalizations.

The Dems could have made unauditable voting a banner issue over the last four years and didn't. I don't expect them to get it right all of the time, but far too much water has gone under the bridge for them to fantasize that the Repubs are going to work with them on election reform or anything else. The game of politics has blinded them to who their real friends and real enemies are.

Today really was a crucial day, as the Dem majority will soon discover.

[glitch]

3. I agree with you both. Especially the bit about the whole glass.

Except there is no glass. :hi:

[SammyWinstonJack]

4. Well said! n/t