It's so pathetic that some are grateful for the tiny crumb thrown at us

[MoonRiver]

today. Two truly brave and patriotic Americans stood up for what was right in our Congress. And what did they get in response? The collective backsides of all (Senate) and most (House) of their DINO pals. Just when I thought there might be some hope for the Democratic leadership, they prove themselves to be the same ole gutless wonders I've come to distrust and discount.

During the last 4+ years I have been furious at Nader and his followers for insisting that the Democratic Party is barely indistinguishable from the Pukes. Well, I'm now starting to agree. And having a small minority willing to fight against the darkness does not disprove Nader's point. Exceptions to every rule always exist.

[sepia_steel]

1. You might want to visit the DUDQ thread.

[RoeBear]

4. DUDQ... what is it?

Deomcratic Underground Dairy Queen?

I hope so, I love DQ

[Darknyte7]

20. DU Drama Queen... n/t

[jmknapp]

2. Nadir did more than any Democrat

...to put Bush in office in 2000.

Never, ever forget that.

[pennylane100]

6. I certainly agree that Nader is no friend of the democrats

and I have no respect for him, but we can't blame him for the steeling of our votes in Ohio and Florida.

[pennylane100]

3. I very much agree with you.

What Barbara Boxer did today certainly took courage and I will support her always but I wish the rest of the party would have would
have been more supportive. I know they all got up made speeches about wanting honest elections but none of them voted to uphold Boxer's objection.

I think I will change my registration to Independent and look a little more closely at the Green Party. At least they put their money where their mouth is.

[wiggs]

5. That's the way I feel too.

I see a small positive, but not enough for many of the posters to claim that it is a great day and anyone who disagrees is a whiner.

Frankly, I'm surprised by how quickly most here latched onto the crumb you mention and devoured it gratefully.

Guess I'll continue to whine....

[MoonRiver]

8. Hell, whining's about all we have left.

No matter how hard we fight and how much of our disposable income we dig into and donate to the Dems, they just keep shooting us and themselves in the collective foot.

[cry baby]

18. Hey, one crumb at a time will eventually make a whole loaf.

[mzmolly]

7. Two? Try 32 and then come back and try to sound like you know what

the F your talking about.

:nopity:

To all those who are disgusted, I'd say join the conservative forums, (if your not already a member) they're disgusted with Democrats today as well, imagine?

[flyarm]

19. please name for me..

the names of the whites besides boxer how stood with the black caucus??
i am so proud of the black caucus representitives..the rest ..i will with hold my comments!
fly

[mzmolly]

25. No, do your own investigation.

:hi:

[flyarm]

36. here they are..

senate..boxer...

house..

List of House members who voted 'Yea'
Thursday 06 January 2005 @ 06:02
Revised down to 31:

Brown, Corrine
Carson
Clay
Clyburn
Conyers
Davis (IL)
Evans
Farr
Filner
Grijalva
Hastings (FL)
Hinchey
Jackson (IL)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E. B.
Jones (OH)
Kilpatrick (MI)
Kucinich
Lee
Lewis (GA)
Markey
McKinney
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Payne
Schakowsky
Thompson (MS)
Waters
Watson
Woolsey
:hi:
fly

[FreepFryer]

9. It's not a crumb. It's bedrock. From here, we recapture America with honor

[cry baby]

13. It will be a slow process, but I believe we have started a real

movement in the right direction. To those who give up - please rethink and follow the Democrat heroes from today. If you give up, we are truly lost for you here at DU and other Democratic blogs are the brightest hope for our country. We are all we have! Don't give up on me. I need you! Your country needs you!

[ClassWarrior]

10. What crumb - that Shrub** let us vote at all??

NGU.

[cali]

11. You're wrong and

you're ignorant. Today was a very good day for democracy. Dems spoke eloquently and rationally about the pressing need for election reform You guys who want instant gratification in the form of some sort of magical resolution resulting in JK being sworn in on the 20th are delusional as well as ignorant. You've missed the point by such a wide margin it's stunning. I wish you slash and burners would leave the party.

[MoonRiver]

12. I never thought he would be sworn in.

I did want more than ONE Senator, and 32 House of Reps to do the right thing for our democracy, and the country's voters. Guess that's just too much to ask for though.

[cry baby]

15. Eloquent as usual, Cali. I hope your bright words will persuade.

I do hope they will not leave the party, though, we need them! They just feel sad their expectations were not met. Expectations that were too high.

[flyarm]

21. unfortunately...

after experiencing fla in 2000 and 2002..i had no expectations other than exactly what occured today..boxer and the black caucus fighting for democracy ..

if i had expectations ..i would be a screaming lunetic now ... from all the senators and congress people who promised us for the past four years that they would stand side by side with us and never let this happen again...
a fool would have believed that after experiencing what we have down here!
fly

[pennylane100]

35. Now your sounding like one of them.

Keep up the good work till there is nobody left to listen.

[righteous1]

14. Why do you suppose more did not join in? I was expecting at

least 8 hoping for alot more

[MoonRiver]

16. Good question.

I think we should start demanding answers.

[theboss]

17. The object was to make a point

This was a wedge to get an issue in the limelight, not to overturn an election. Most people don't think the election was "Stolen" (myself included). But a lot of people realize that something is very wrong with our elections process (myself included). Get that fixed, win the people's trust, and move forward in victory.

[MoonRiver]

27. The point made by most of our Dems

was that they think *'s latest selection was legit. THAT is the point their votes in support of Ohio's election results made.

[theboss]

28. I'm a Dem, and I think it was legit

I still think our system is fucked up though. Why is that not a reasonable position?

[MoonRiver]

29. Because the evidence of voter disenfranchisement and

electoral irregularities, ALL in *'s favor, is overwhelming, especially in Ohio. * did not "win" imho. No way Boxer would have stuck her neck out if she didn't have overwhelming evidence of fraud.

[kk897]

30. "wrong" but not "stolen"?

I see a lot of people, dems especially, saying that something is very "wrong" with the system, or that the system is "broken," yet they don't also say there is "fraud" or that the election was "stolen."

I'm trying to understand what this means. Honestly, I don't know. If most of the Dems agree that there's something wrong with the system that isn't fraud but that keeps them out of power, I'd like to know what that is. Or is it just that bbv is scary with what *might* happen but hasn't happened thus far? Or is it that "fraud" or election "stealing" has been in some undefined way not been "conclusively" proven yet?

The use of the language here fascinates me. I noted that the GOP speakers kept saying that there's not "one shred" of "credible evidence." That "serious" people wouldn't give the challenge any credence whatsoever. Then when Republican callers to C-SPAN got on, they said almost the exact same thing in THE SAME LANGUAGE. Yet when presumably Democratic callers came on, they'd share bits of evidence that sounded quite credible to me. I mean, actual "facts." Then a Republican would say there wasn't any evidence.

The use of the word "conspiracy" really bothers me as well, as in its use by the Admin about the tsunami. "Conspiracy" *always* equals "wacky" or "wild" or worse. Yet the word itself just means that more than one person worked to accomplish something nefarious.

The GOP speakers used that one over and over, too. And Conyers has shied away from it. I guess we need a whole new word for both the election and for conspiracy.

The "bleezle" was affected by the "wurndigig".

[bush_is_wacko]

22. I don't feel pathetic at all!

This has only happened ONE other time in the history of this nation. Our Senators will now do everything in their power to create election reform. Do you EVER want your vote to count? If you do, THAT is THE most important issue. Shrub may or may not be our President for the next 4 years. This is STILL being investigated and now it has grown monstrous legs.

What I do find pathetic is people who do not recognize that whether Shrub PLAYS President or not we have gained the opportunity to claim ELECTION REFORM as OUR issue. If Boxer hadn't done what she did today, the issue would have quietly gone away. She put the issue in the record. Republican's can now be held accountable for either working with us or against us. Yes, the other issues are important, but THIS issue is a must. Without it, we can only sit by and watch the Thugs do it over and over and over again!

[MoonRiver]

31. We probably won't have the right to vote again in decades.

A real point about disenfranchisement and fraud could have been made today by Dems refusing to certify another election theft. But oh nooooo, mustn't rock the boat! :eyes:

[bush_is_wacko]

33. There are not enough Dem's in either house to overturn this election

I thought we all knew that. Yes, I am a little disappointed they did not all stand together, but the reality is they are not all there and they are not all completely convinced. We only needed ONE Senator to raise the issue. We did that. The point WAS made. I am not old enough to remember much of what went on in the 60's but THAT movement had to start somewhere with little steps. The investigating will still be going on behind the scenes, but the voice of disenfranchised voters was heard today. the thugs will have to start towing the line, or they will out themselves. We made a dent today!

[MoonRiver]

34. We made a dent. But we could have really intimidated the Rethugs,

and forced MSM to cover this scandal by standing together in opposition to Ohio. Of course, * was going to get another 4. We needed to scream to the heavens about his illegitimacy though. The rightwing onslaught on democracy will only be stopped if our leaders start standing up to it.

[mordarlar]

23. I cannot imagine having this attitude in a war. We are in a war of sorts.

I am pretty sure MLK had some less than gratifying moments in the struggle he fought. But he persevered. Kept on a path. Insisted on a result and did not falter till he got it.

[FreepFryer]

24. Precisely! You've recaptured your power from a bad frame. Here's a kit-kat

[mordarlar]

26. Is it one of those BIG kit kats? I could use some chocolate

[meganmonkey]

32. Gutless wonders?

That's charming.
And welcome to reality - the Dems are not the saviors of the universe. But guess what? WE ARE!!! And if it weren't for us, today might not have happened at all. So go cry or whatever you need to do, and if you want to come back and fight for democracy, great. If not, great.