Barbara Boxer on the Ed Schultz Show ... said that only one Senator needed

[mzmolly]

to stand and one did.

She claims that was all that was needed and the ball is rolling. She considers today a great victory and warns Dems not to be sidetracked by the yea/nay vote aspect.

I suggest we not be distracted by the vote aspect or those claiming severe disillusionment with the party.

:hi:

Thanks to hippiegranny for this info on another thread.

[roguevalley]

1. I love her. I will give her money and come down to work for her

in her next election. I admire her and will be there for her if she needs support and I live in Alaska. Lucky you, California.

[righteous1]

2. Good spin, but I would have been a heck of alot

happier if a dozen or more had stood with her in contest

[Kurovski]

60. Can they do that?

My understanding is that when one stands that begins the debate.

Could twenty more have signed and stood with congresswoman Tubbs at the same time?

And would it have helped matters to have nineteen more of our Dem leaders with Rebup bull's eyes marked on their backs?

Not everyone is as secure in their seat as Boxer is. We don't need to lose more as we did Cleland and McKinney,(back now)and Tom D. And I can't help but think about the "planes".

Sometimes--and these dark days--I think just being a Democrat holding any high position is a form of bravery!

This is American politics, with the republicans controlling everything including most of the media, and the voting process in areas that are "battleground".

It was easier in the Ukraine.

[justiceischeap]

3. I'm amazed at all the folks

Who are pissed that no one else signed. Let's compare this to 2000, shall we? This was giant leaps and bounds in showing at least a little backbone and some politicians realizing they are there for the people not their greed, not their ego but us. That's more than we had yesterday, IMO. As I see it, today didn't mean much but it was a great day.

[NickiWitch]

5. I agree!

Everyone should remember, even though they didn't give a yea, they gave *great* speeches in favor of investigating what went wrong.

Peace!

[glitch]

8. They did give great speeches. They would be heroes if they had followed

through with their votes. But they did give great speeches and they made the issues public. So they did good, and I appreciate them for that.

But the yea voters did great.

[NickiWitch]

25. Sometimes we have to sacrifice our herodom...

for the greater good of the cause.

They were fantastic, weren't they!!


Peace!

[Amigust]

15. This is comparable to being in a boat plunging through the

rapids toward the falls. Whereas almost none of the passengers were paddling against the current before. Now an additional passenger puts a paddle into the water to fight, but most the others vote to refuse.

Folks, this is not 50 years ago. It's not like there was plenty of time and opportunity to let the boat drift to safety. Those days are behind us.

Today was decisive for opportunity lost.

[henslee]

41. I agree. Every journey starts with the first step. I would be suspicious

of a sudden flip -- it would feel trendy and fleeting. I want a slow steady, sure footed attack. Next target -- big media.

[understandinglife]

4. One word: LEADERSHIP = Senator Boxer (n/t)

[glitch]

6. And she's got it! Actually we've got a lot of people to be very proud of

Boxer, Conyers, Tubbs Jones, everyone who voted yea. These are our natural leaders, the people we should be promoting to leadership positions.

[Pirate Smile]

7. Stephanie Tubbs-Jones was on C-span (call-in interview) and they

asked her about the numbers who voted to uphold the objection and if she was upset.

She said NO!

This was about getting the debate and they did. They raised the issue and the point is to move forward and fix the system.

[Casablanca]

9. If true, then what Tubbs and Boxer are saying is wrong.

It is not enough to just "raise the issue", you have to see the issue through.

It's good that they are trying to be encouraging, but they should know that the Democratic Party as a group is on trial for its political legitimacy. If they can't mount a coordinated opposition in a crucial vote to defend the right of all votes to be counted, then they are politically illegitimate.

[mzmolly]

10. It was coordinated.

However, Democrats allow for differences.

[Casablanca]

21. Excuse me, mzmolly ...

... but 1 vote in the Senate doesn't make for a coordinated stand for voting rights, no matter how much of the Kool Aid you drink.

And if Democrats allowed for meaningful differences (as opposed to convenient rhetorical ones), Howard Dean would have been the Dem nominee and the President-elect right now.

[mzmolly]

24. Sorry, coordinated means they talked to and supported one another

agreeing that Boxer would be the Senator to take an official stand.

No Kook Aid here, just reason.

Dean should have been the nominee, and remember he got more endorsements from DEMOCRATS than anyother, but the "MEDIA" knew he'd be too dangerous to go up against Bush and the voters of Iowa ran scared.

[Casablanca]

27. Not voting with the Senator they supposedly agreed to take the stand ...

... isn't coordinated either. I don't give a rat's ass what they said, or agreed upon, or chatted about, or pontificated about before the cameras, or gave their little secret handshakes about behind closed doors.

Only the vote matters. Always.

One lone Senator voted for it, the rest were either MIA or voted against it. Which means that their secret coordination means nothing to anyone else but them, and you who support those kinds of tactics. This is how it will go down in the historical record - the Dems were not willing to vote according to their rhetoric.

In 2000, one Senator would have been a bombshell. In 2004, it's still significant, but far too much has come to light between 2000 and 2004 for there not to be nearly united Democratic Party voting for this issue. As it stands, it's Boxer's rebellion, not the Democratic Party, or ours.

If you don't believe me, watch how easily Boxer's vote going to be marginalized as fringe resistance. If the entire Party had joined with her, the MSM wouldn't have had that option, and the fight for election reform would have gotten easier, not more difficult.

[earth mom]

28. Exactly

They all talked the talk-but didn't walk the walk.

Actions speak louder than words.

[mzmolly]

31. Read the OP.

I happen to agree with Ms. Boxer.

[mzmolly]

29. "Only the vote matters" ... NOT according to Senator Boxer.

That fringe resistance you speak of had the VOCAL SUPPORT ON THE RECORD OF THE SENATE floor of our former first lady Hilary Clinton among others.

So much for "fringe resistance."

Additionally, the congress has just called for formal congressional investigation into the matter you marginalize.

"The wheels of justice grind slowly" another DU-er pointed out here today. I happen to agree.

Ms. Boxer is correct, I will not marginalize what happened today, I'll leave that to the Republicans.

Reminder: She (Boxer) considers today a great victory and warns Dems not to be sidetracked by the yea/nay vote aspect.

Do not be sidetracked by the yea/nay vote aspect. :hi:

[Casablanca]

32. Vocal support doesn't mean anything in politics. Votes do.

"The wheels of justice grind slowly." The neo-con fascists count on that. The Dems could have chosen to move them a bit faster today, but didn't.

Boxer is wrong in her comments. This is yet another example of the Democrats losing with perfect form, and the Republicans getting away with hacking another presidential election by dedicating themselves to what works.

This doesn't just lose an election, it sets a standard for future "elections". The fight for meaningful election reform should and will continue, but the battle has just been set back, and it doesn't help the cause for the soldiers in the field to not recognize that.

[kath]

38. "elections" is right - from here on out I'm afraid that we may have to put

the word in quotation marks (kinda like we indicate the current pResident with an *)

[mzmolly]

47. Tell that to the "Policitians" who stood against this election today.

:hi:

Meaningful election reform is on the way ... piss and moan all you like, it doesn't take from our victory today. :hi:

[Casablanca]

50. You mean the politicians who pretended to ...

... be concerned with the issue of the Ohio election being hacked, but not *too* concerned.

I'll be telling them - count on it.

Keep defending those "under the radar" politics, mzmolly. If Dems couldn't pass the relatively easy Jan. 6 test of political solidarity, they WILL get slaughtered when the fight gets serious again. Feel free to keep waiting though, and I'll fight with people who are interested in defending the cause NOW. Not sometime later this year - maybe.

And if the Dems prove me wrong on this, I win again.

[mzmolly]

51. I love how you wind lock in step thinking with "political solidarity"

it's cute.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and NOW is not gonna solve this issue. Do tell me why the one Independant Senator wasn't interested in the election being hacked on a REAL level? How bout all those Republicans who are supposed to care about Democracy?

Why is your standard for Democrats that ALL of them speak in unison, and the standard for others non-existant?

* There isn't one progressive victory in the history of our nation, that happened in one day. *

[KatieB]

44. formal congressional investigation?

Where did you hear about this? That would be great news, but I didn't hear of it happening today.

[mzmolly]

46. The plea is dated January 5th - 2005

I heard about it here. :hi:

[rdmccur]

52. What about this?

(Haven't heard any news yet this am.)

"Additionally, the congress has just called for formal congressional investigation into the matter you marginalize."

[mzmolly]

58. It was posted her yesterday and dated January 5th. It was a request

from the House Judiciary Democrats. May not happen, may happen.

Of course you haven't heard, people are too busy bitching to find out what's going on and support it.

[Seabiscuit]

45. If Dems were "coordinated" Howard Dean would be our next President.

[mzmolly]

48. Not all Dems agree on Howard Dean. But they were coordinated as to

how to handle the situation in Ohio and the greater impact on our Democracy.

[kath]

35. When is the last time the Dems "mounted a coordinated opposition"

against something? Does anyone remember?

[Patsy Stone]

11. Excellent. I love her. And I am very, very happy. n/t

[seito]

12. I agree

I am so damn proud of her. She bore the weight for all of our Democrats in the Senate. Why must we ruin this moment by searching for the negative?

How many heroes do we need before we begin to believe?

[mzmolly]

22. Agreed.

How many heroes do we need before we begin to believe?

:hi:

[Laurab]

56. I agree too

Sorry, Seito - I'm not stalking you, but I do seem to agree with you a lot.

Many of the Dems, in their (IMO) excellent speeches in support of Barbara Boxer, made it clear they were not going to vote to overturn the results. That wasn't the point. They also made it clear that they agreed with her position on election reform - that WAS the point.

I don't think a single one of them thought there was enough to overturn the results, including Boxer, but she couldn't sign on and then vote against herself - now THAT would have made her look quite silly.

She is a hero, and a patriot, and what happened yesterday gave me some faith again in our democracy.

I sometimes think the real problem is that people are just angry that their guy wasn't nominated. There seems to be a lot of bitterness about that. I like Dean, but I haven't heard a whole lot from him regarding election fraud. Nominee or not, he has an audience, so why hasn't he been more vocal in protesting the fraud? My guess would be for the same reason everyone else has not.

It's so easy to be a Monday morning QB.

[slackmaster]

13. She had the least to lose

Whichever Senator who signed on risks only being cast as the farthest to the left or most "liberal" if you prefer of all Senators. Senator Boxer is already there, and her actions today certainly won't hurt her chances of being reelected in 2010 if she runs.

[LosinIt]

14. Won't hurt her chances if she runs in 2008 either!

I'm behind her, she is a BornAgain Founding Mother.

[slackmaster]

16. What would she run for in 2008?

Dianne Feinstein's seat?

:shrug:

[ClintCooper2003]

34. Hopefully, she'll be in Hillary Clinton's cabinet. :)

[Hippo_Tron]

49. She could run against Gropinator

Or she could run for president. If we're going to have a woman run, I think she should be the one.

[Amigust]

17. Sen. Boxer doesn't have a snowball's chance in 2008 at the Presidency,

just as no other Dem has a chance as long as the criminals control the electoral process (and the legislative and judicial mechanisims capable of reforming it). Today was a watershed day and the Dems who opposed blew it once again.

My hat is off to Senator Boxer and Representative Tubbs Jones, along with the 30 other patriots who voted with Rep. Tubbs Jones.

[nmoliver]

18. in what sense?

The ball is rolling in what sense? Can somebody explain to me what happens next as far as the Congressional scene is concerned? I thought it was over.

[mzmolly]

19. They made pleas to support coming legislation that would standardize

procedures for national elections.

[KoKo]

20. Good Post....yes...we need to applaud that she took the stand and

hope that the "Fraud" will be exposed. By Boxer and Tubbs-Jones taking a stand with those who supported them...there's now something on the record...which might give weight to investigations into the "compupter code" in these machines which goes way back and probably cost McKinney and Cleland their seats in Georgia.

I think it's a case of : "The Wheels of Justice Grind Slowly."

It's "TOO SLOW" for me...but I have to hope that today's stand sets the stage for more... It might seem small but what happened today was HUGE...and we have folks like Michael Moore and "Activist Grassroots Organizations" and US...US...US....US... to thank for this "jesture for protest" which is so important.

The Chimp (as a DU'er said) will always have an "*" by his name.. He doesn't care because he said "We'll all be dead" but WE CARE and HE HAS NO MANDATE! That's what this "protest showed." The Chimp has "NO MANDATE TO DO ANYTHING!"

[mzmolly]

23. Love your key point:

"The Wheels of Justice Grind Slowly."

I totally agree.

[renate]

26. ...yet they grind exceeding small

...which I choose to interpret as meaning that God (as in the original, or Justice as in this version) will chew up the bad guys and spit them out.

[helderheid]

30. I so have her back!

[ClintCooper2003]

33. I feel very positive about what happened. They played a clip of...

Dennis Kucinich on the mainstream radio station and he sounded fired up!

[hansolsen]

36. Why didn't every Dem in the Sanate at least speak today? Where was

Mark Dayton from Minnesota? He is up for election in 2006 -- did the Dem leadership decide that "vulnerable" Dems would be excused from speaking because it might hurt them?? This is the same cowardice that resulted in all those votes for IWR and the losses in 2002 and 2004. Will we never learn???

God damn it -- we need to put our votes where our mouths are, or go home.

[kath]

39. Dayton did speak. And he was a jerk.

[hansolsen]

42. Yup, I have since found that out. He is dead to me now. N/T

[FreepFryer]

37. EXACTLY. Please - defectors please - reconsider your disappointment...

in light of things to come...

[buddysmellgood]

40. I'll set aside my anger for Barbara.

[LittleClarkie]

43. Could someone answer my question from another thread re Shultz stance?

Did he think that Kerry and/or Edwards should have been in D.C. I thought I heard him applauding a caller who said so, but he could have been pounding his desk in frustration instead. Can anyone give me the straight poop. I'm curious.

I'm also very, very glad I finally have a liberal talk show host to listen to instead of the pos in Milwaukee.

[The Time is Now]

53. Long time lurker

This one finally did it for me. I have been an actively writing letters, making phone calls and e-mailing senators and congressmen. I've been very concerned that this election fraud be shown for what it is. I think that it is vital to keep the activity pumped and charging forward. This movement is on a roll. Don't lose heart.

This is the kind of work is made possible by those brave many of you who realize that not acting is not an option. We have grown too desperate even for despair.

But we have the Democratic Party's attention now. Let's keep it.

My appreciation for all that this forum has already accomplished.

[mzmolly]

54. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[IndyOp]

55. Kick! I'm streaming CSPAN right now, but want to listen tomorrow. (n/t)

[Der Blaue Engel]

57. By golly, mzmolly, I think you've got it!

:kick:

[Jo March]

59. For anyone who is still wanting to work on this

Come on over to our thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=262387&mesg_id=262387

DUers with a fighting spirit and the willingness to pester the crap out of our elected officials are needed!

Come on over. Take off your shoes. Grab a task out of the list.

We will not give up. We have the momentum!!

We rock!1 :yourock: