For those criticizing the Dems that didn't stand with Boxer - a reminder

[justiceischeap]

I swear I saw on here yesterday (can't do a search, am not a donor yet) that Boxer didn't want anyone else to sign on with her because one was enough, there was no need. Not for one moment do I believe that all of these Senators weren't in discussions about this. They were all on message and what happened today may not be to all of our likings but it was deliberate.

This is much like a boxing match and this was round 1. Round 1 is almost always never spectacular but it gets you to round 2. Let's look at all the hard work we did bringing at least one Senator to this cause as well as others speaking in support. As I posted in another thread, this is leaps and bounds from 2000, at least voices were heard.

No movement goes from 0-100 in one days time, be patient, be diligent and have faith that we as a community can make change.

(puts soap box back under desk)

The Correction

[murielm99]

1. Nice post, and welcome to DU! nt

[derby378]

2. Welcome!

You got a point, but even if the electors couldn't be turned away, Boxer was left standing all alone in the Senate with a big ol' crosshair on her forehead. I think someone should have stood with her.

[justiceischeap]

4. Thanks for the welcome

I'm pretty certain she wanted the crosshairs on her. I know I read on here yesterday that she didn't want anyone else to stand.

[DRoseDARs]

3. Of course they ddn't stand w/ her, they have their reelections to think of

Sentator "Failed Us" Kerry is the only senator I can give a pass to because it would have been highly improper for him as a presidential candidate to vote yea in this vote. An abstention or no vote are his only options.

[politicasista]

6. Stop calling him a failure.

You're probably mad cause your candidate didn't win.x(

[DRoseDARs]

17. You're damn right I'm mad Kerry didn't win...

...And takes part of the blame for it. He was warned over and over that the election would be tampered with and he dismissed such talk as rediculous conspiracy theories. There's more than enough evidence that it wasn't.

[EFerrari]

27. Yep. I got shrugged off by MoveOn vote tampering, too.

But TrueMajority did a bunch of work on this, and they're up and running again. They're smaller but seem to work on the fundamentals in a focused way.

[Niche]

47. edit: ... this is great...

(sorry I've gone mad... lost on what my point was. sorry exhasusted)

[Amaryllis]

48. I've often wondered how much he knew going in. Do you have any

references or anything regarding what you said about him being warned over and over? I figured he had to know something but I have been appalled at how much of the Dem leadership is clueless. And they can't do math! 11,000 precincts in OH; that's only 6 votes per precinct to turn it, and that could be accounted for by voter suppression alone, not even considered machine issues.


Did you see this? Arnebeck's letter to congress today. He talks about Kerry.
I don't think Kerry's statement in his letter about his legal team not finding enough to change the results of the election helped Arnebeck's case at all.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss//duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=247010&mesg_id=247010

[EFerrari]

5. I tend to agree with your assessment but what is troubling is

exactly Boxer's strategy, the minimum needed.

We aim too low, imo. It sends the wrong message to the other side, "we're afraid to expose ourselves", for one thing.

And as I keep saying ad nauseum, it is our job to keep the pressure on our reps because they avoid controversy like the plague.

[justiceischeap]

7. What I wonder

Is how we as a community can tell our elected officials that we'd appreciate a few more balls.

[unpossibles]

10. lets mail them all some rubber balls. Blue ones perhaps? n/t

[EFerrari]

11. What about sending them all glowing emails praising the

Black Caucus? Gosh, too bad I'm too old to become Black. They were astonishing!

[unpossibles]

44. yes. very inspiring speeches. n/t

[alvis]

Aim for the ground, let gravity do all your work for you.

:grr:

[Wilms]

55. That WAS the pressure.

You don't need to be in someones face to put the squeeze on 'em. :)

[unpossibles]

8. I am not convinced this is over by a long shot

and frankly was happy with what happened today all things considering.

Had all of the Dems voted yes, they still would probably have been outnumbered. This gets things out into the open, hopefully for some real reform.

Granted, I would have been a bit more angry and said "Fraud" a lot more, but then again, i was not there in their positions.

[justiceischeap]

9. Like I said in my original post

This is only Round 1.

[EFerrari]

13. Most of them weren't in their positions either! n/t

[corbett]

30. Second That!

C-SPAN viewers and the people in the gallery got to hear the OUTLANDISH claim made by more than one repuke that we were helping the terrorists by challenging the election!

Besides, my money is on the hand recount of Ohio plus the efforts of BBV and ReDefeatBush.com to expose the criminality to bear big fruit in the next two weeks.

It ain't over yet!

[alvis]

12. It would have been nice to have an opposition party.

Remember what happened last time? Same thing. I do applaud Boxer's stance, but for all of the other Dem's not to stand with her, very hard to fathom. Well, not really, this seems like it is the Appease the Republicans Party as of late, not the opposition party the Dem's want and need.

/end of rant

[EFerrari]

15. You go to war with the Party you've got, not the one you want?

Does anyone remember activism during the Clinton years? I was in graduate school + two kids and didn't pay attention. Sorry, but true.

[alvis]

37. I didn't sign up with the Republican Party Appeasers

[justiceischeap]

16. But...

Here's the thing. To bring the rest of America into this, you know the one's that aren't on DU all the time, you have to do it bit by bit. Remember the boxing analogy. We got something today, it isn't much bigger than a piece of lint but it's our piece of lint and we as a grassroots community made it happen, no doubt about that.

[alvis]

34. I appreciate your view

But the last time no one said peep (at least the on the Senate side). Look at the consequences now. Maybe it would have been the same, but at least there would have been a fight.

I do realize that the people on DU tend to be more political and media savvy, but I would hope that our representives would know the right thing to do. It really looks as if a fundamental change in the party is in order.

[justiceischeap]

35. Haven't we been saying that all along though?

The party needs change? This is what we have for now, we have to work with what we have as we stride to make lasting change. Maybe we won't change it from the outside but we need to pool together so we can start to change it from the inside.

[alvis]

36. I think you're right

The change must come from within. But it must happen. There must be some measurement to judge by. Some sort of metric with which to use. I think that has been said all along. I need to listen more carefully.

[Casablanca]

14. No, this was Round 10.

Election fraud has been a front-burner issue for four years with many people, but not with the Democratic Party.

This was a day when a strong, unified statement could have been made by the Democratic Party with the MSM forced to listen. They could have emboldened many people to stand with them to work to uncover election system abuses, and for people with information about those abuses to come forward, knowing that they would have tacit support from one of the major parties. From now on, the fight will be waged behind closed doors by tenured congresspeople and well-funded lobbyists, no matter how the vote turned out.

Instead, Kerry was in the Middle East, 80 Democrats didn't vote, and to so-called feisty majority leader Pelosi actually voted against the merits of the objection.

This movement could have started the next four years with the first showing of Dems as a united opposition party, but they chose to take the same safe, wimpy, tactical route that got them the minorityship in the first place.

The Dems who did stand up are the victors.

[AmerDem]

18. your explanation is the whole point of why I'm pissed.

We live in a world where everything these representative do is choreographed to their liking. Since 2000 they has showing us they are not only failing but life as we no it no longer exists.

We are truly on the path a fascism and when an election is stolen for the second time and we have so much evidence of it but still see no leadership standing up, we have a huge problem. A problem that probably can't be fixed without something as tragic as revolution to over come it. I honestly believe this.

[justiceischeap]

20. It's not just them though

It's the uninformed and it's our job as the informed to spend time everyday taking the message to the uninformed. We are the grassroots, we are the party, we need to do just as much work as those in Washington, if not more.

We are the one's in touch with the "common man" not them. If we want change, we are responsible for making change.

[EFerrari]

21. I don't think we can have a revolution, just as we can't have

general strikes because Labor is just about dead here.

The opposition is very smart. They're good at dividing our loci of power. And we seem to fall for it too often, too.

[AmerDem]

32. call it a pathetic revolution then

some of us really don't care who has our back. We stand up for what's right because it is right!

[weeve]

19. Does the word SOLIDARITY mean nothing to you?

Shameless that no other Dems voted AYE . A show of Solidarity was what was needed to make this into a story that the MSM would have had to cover. Now they can spin it as the lone crazy Left Coast Senator, who is after all , an emotional women. Then they'll show the close-up of her with a tear as she listens to Congresswoman Tubbs. Wasn't it Kerry who bragged , "I've got your back " ?!? Who had Boxer's back today ??

[justiceischeap]

23. I did!

And I'll have it tomorrow and the next day and the next day. Will you?

[weeve]

28. Most definitely !

I love Sen. Boxer ... now more than ever. I'm her eternal devotee. Now if MY two female Senators had also voted AYE today, I would have been able to spread the love around even more! As it is, I'm wondering if it's even worth contributing to their next elections... if my vote may not be counted anyway...

[justiceischeap]

33. See, I, unfortunately, live in a red state

Virginia, can't believe I live here but to get back on-topic, any movement relies on the individual. Today one individual stands and we show that person love, then the next day another one see's it's okay to stand, so they do to. Babysteps.

It's kinda like when gay celebrities started coming out. One did, put her toe in the water and her career didn't suffer, so then another came out and another and another. Now ya can't stop 'em. ;)

edited for stupidity

[EFerrari]

24. I did, too. Called her SF office, thanked her and let her know we'd

be watching the press on her behalf.

[rumpel]

22. Agree. At some point, I even thought Clinton implied to give a

go ahead for the people to march, or did I read too much into her speach?

[justiceischeap]

25. Unfortunately, I didn't get to hear all of her speech

I was at work and the 'net connection kept breaking up.

[EFerrari]

29. I didn't hear it all, either. Didn't both Clintons work on voter reg

in the sixties?

[FreepFryer]

26. Absolutely right. Those who are posting threads to bash our unity

...want us to put on a blindfold as well as the gloves before round one.

I say, take the gloves off. I believe that's what was done today.

[Pacifist Patriot]

31. Excellent post. Welcome!

[Amigust]

38. Staffers

I am stunned today at how many posts there are at DU trying to assuage and deflect the anger that today's opposing and non-voting Democrat congressional members so richly deserve.

I can't help but think that Dem Party and Dem congressional staffers must be working overtime trying to manage the conversation. I had that same feeling about those who were saying that Kerry was playing it smart and had a plan, that he hadn't turned his back on us.

The DLC/DNC played progressives like a violin throughout the campaign and I believe that hasn't changed and is probably happening here at DU now as well.

In reality, I believe that today's opposing Dems need to be hit by a massive, major blast of anger, enough that they have to take it seriously. I don't think there's any other way short of outright defection that will make any difference to them.

[justiceischeap]

39. I'm not saying you shouldn't be angry

I'm just saying this is what we got, work with it. You're angry? Great, so am I but instead of directing that anger at the little crumb we got today, direct at the real issue. Pick one, there's many. I just don't want to see the passion of this community fizzle because they perceive today as a loss. Yes, that's one way to look at it but another is that it is the first step on a long, very arduous path and we the people, for the people are responsible for taking the walk.

[EFerrari]

41. I didn't read that post as being directed your way, fwiw. n/t

[justiceischeap]

42. Didn't take it as such!

I just wanted to make my point clear if I hadn't already. ;)

[Amigust]

43. I am working with it.

And my opinion about the best way to work with it is to let those eunuchs know in no uncertain terms that they'd better grow some new ones, beginning now, or there will be hell to pay.

(edited for spelling)

[EFerrari]

40. I think you're right. The level of discourse around here hits

bottom pretty often. Black and white thinking, disrespect. Does smack of a semi-pro effort at times.

[earth mom]

45. I'm stunned too

and I don't need my thoughts or feelings managed by anyone and that's what it's starting to feel like around here! So are we to understand that what's happening around here is damage control? Now I get it.

[Amigust]

54. Damage control sounds right. n/t

[FreepFryer]

46. Right on. Excellent post. And, we cut them above the eye. Nasty one too.

[Blue_In_AK]

49. Pat on the back to the grassroots

I was just saying to my husband a few minutes ago that, if for no other reason, today was a great victory simply because it was US, the little people, who were able to bring this election issue to the attention of Congress, and we actually got them to discuss it, with great feeling (on both sides). We DO have the power to institute change, and democracy is NOT dead, no matter what some, even here, would like us to believe. We must never give up the faith.

Everybody give yourselves a big pat on the back for all your hard work. :thumbsup: We ROCK.

[DearAbby]

50. Take a couple days breather...then roll up your sleeves We have work to do

[Wilms]

51. CORRECT. n/t

[snot]

52. I agree

Looked to me like they'd been up all night coordinating a very strategic action.

[floridadem30]

53. My thoughts exactly. Several senators stood in our defense today and we

only needed one signature.

[Amigust]

56. Jawboning is not the same as a VOTE to support. n/t

[orleans]

57. I totally agree