Hillary? No thanks.

[Splinter Cell]

It's now over. Actually, it's been over for a couple months, but it was hard to move on. We need to work on 2008 now, and it's not too early to start.

Anybody who thinks Hillary should be our candidate in 2008 has lost their mind. She's smart, but too divisive. She would lose.

As for everyone that's for Howard Dean in 2008, keep this in mind. If we had nominated Dean this year, we would have lost....fairly. Bush would have cleaned up in a landslide. Dean isn't our choice either.

We have some great people in the democratic party that can win the presidency, and we have to be realistic if we want to win the next election, AND take office.

John Kerry - I know that a lot of folks have been down on him for not dragging this out, and I understand why. It hurts, and we feel let down. I don't think he would have been able to overturn the election even if he had contested it. Think about it, if there REALLY was something in the wings that would put the fraud into the light, they would have gone for it. If he had just fought it without anything that they can make stick (as of now), the dems would have just thrown him to the wolves and voted the same way they did today. Now, half the country voted for him, and trusted him to lead us. He's going to be seen as a patriotic statesman, that was "right all along" when Iraq and everything else turns to shit. People will respect him, and feel they can trust him, and I don't think the republicans have ANYONE that Kerry couldn't beat. I don't think they'll nominate McCain, and he's too old and sick.

Al Gore - He won the presidency in 2000, and everyone knows it. He's respected by most Americans, and many feel he was cheated out of his presidency. He could very likely pull a Nixon and make a comeback. He's young enough, and would still make a fine president.

Wesley Clark - This guy is one person many in the democratic fold like and respect. He has the makings of a fine president, and could be trusted to keep us safe from "terrorism", which so many people have on the brain these days.

John Edwards - He's young, and well liked, but it's going to be tough to stay in the limelight until 2008.

Mark Warner - I don't know much about this guy, other then the fact he's a popular governor from a red state, and could reach out to the other side.

These seem like our best choices. If we nominate Kerry, we would win. Anyone that blames him for this "loss" and wants to rant and rave about how he didn't go down in flames only to lose in the end anyway, and cause the democrats '08 and beyond, can do so. He is still a man of great courage and strength, and our best choice in 2008. Don't listen to the talking heads that think he was a poor candidate, because he gave Dubya all he wanted during a time of war, and that's not something many candidates could do.

[Boredtodeath]

1. AMEN!

Evidently, too many DEMS have forgotten what the Clinton years cost us.

I'm not looking for a re-run of NAFTA, WTO, Welfare "Reform," and scandal after scandal.

[WildEyedLiberal]

2. Thank you for your well thought out and intelligent post

I agree 100%

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Shalom]

3. Agree with portrayl of Kerry: He Lives to Fight Another Day...

[masjenkins]

4. i totally agree... but i have an unrelated question

moving on along fine here... i wont repeat what you have so eloquently expressed. i have posted a few times here before that Kerry is no Gore.. (slinking off so they say) I would gladly vote for Kerry in 2008 and am really sick of the "loser" thing... beyond that.. here is my unrelated question..
who is in charge of scheduling confirmation hearings? I can't really remember a time when a very controversial nominee (Gonzales) confirmation hearing was on the same day that the electoral college voted. I watched the house and senate go at it all afternoon,,, and nothing on PBS about it. Its all about Gonzales. which i have no problem with... but i am just wondering what kind of monkey juice they are putting in our water... (I got a tin foil hat for Christmas!!! )

[cry baby]

5. I am not sure which candidate I would choose, but it won't be Hillary.

I might have thought about it if she had signed today with Boxer. She doesn't have the courage to go after aggressively the things that progressives want. She is divisive.

[politicasista]

6. Amen to that Godfather!

:yourock:

[empathy]

7. Divisive?

These days, if you tell me you have a Dem who the Repugs really hate, then I tend to think that person must be pretty special. I WANT someone the hardcore Republicans hate. At least then I know they stand for something.

You seriously underestimate Dean if you assume he would have lost in a landslide. Yes he is pretty far to the left for most Americans. Sound like someone else you know? Bush is VERY far to the Right for most Americans. But, whether or not Mini-Bush really won, at least 48+ per cent of America liked him and believed in his convictions. I would say that analysis applies to Dean more than any other Dem.

And Hillary... when did the fact that Republicans hate her become a bad thing? BOTH Dean and Hillary would generate extreme excitement among various core groups of Democrats. Which is to say, they could both win in exactly the same way Bush wins (minus the fraud).

[Splinter Cell]

12. You didn't get it.....

I don't care if Bill Frist or Tom Delay or Dick Cheney hates our candidates guts. I'm talking about Joe Sixpack down the street, who's opinion is worth a damn when electing presidents.

As for Dean, he would have gotten his Tarzan yelping behind handed to him. He reeked of McGovern. We're better off having the offical tally at 51% to 49%, and in our hearts knowing we won a moral victory, then it being 70% to 30% or worse.

[empathy]

14. Thanks

For the direct response, Godfather. I appreciate it, even if I disagree with it.

Firstly, I would rather lose 70 - 30 for someone I believe in than 51-49 for someone I don't believe in. That being said, I very much believe in John Kerry and that is not a slight against him.

But I think when people talk about Hillary upsetting Joe Six-pack and being divisive, they are missing the point that she is also VERY motivational for a lot of people. I know a number of people who are not interested in politics (you know the "it doesnt matter who is president type") who are very motivated by Hillary. Some of them did not vote for her husband, for what its worth.

Basically, Im suggesting you cant judge someone just by their enemies. Hillary's popularity, among those who like her, is extreme, and that does make a difference. Regardless, the NY senate election will be a very big test for her.

RE Dean, I simply disagree that he would have been crushed. I dont doubt that he would have been, at times, embarrassing. He would have said the wrong things. But again, Bush makes a living that way and he still wins. Integrity (which Dean has and Bush fakes to enough people) makes a difference to a lot of people. I also have some republican acquaintances who say "Bush is an idiot, but the only Dems I could have voted for were Dean and Clarke." These arent people I agree with, but it was a common perception that Dean was true to his beliefs, and he could have sold that with success.

Sorry to ramble...

[Splinter Cell]

27. I respect your opinion.

I want to make something clear however, I like and respect Howard Dean. I never meant to compare him to Bush, or give the impression that I think he's an idiot. He's a very bright guy, and would make a fine president imho.

The problem lies, however, in the campaign. Most folks today know that George McGovern would have been a better leader then Richard Nixon. But, he couldn't beat Nixon's image.

You make a VERY good point, about supporting someone you believe in. However, if you want to make a differance in the game, you have to play to win. By that I don't mean cheat and lie and scheme like the neo-cons, but outsmart them. Dean is a man that can excite youth and get them involved, but a lot of older folks were not really as impressed. I knew many that were upset that he was the "front-runner" for several months. They wanted somebody to take on Bush, and just couldn't get behind Dean.

Kerry, like him or not, was and is the most presidential of the democratic candidates for the job. He's more presidential then even Clinton. He was born for the job. And, beyond that, I do believe in him.

I like Howard, and would have proudly voted for him if he had been nominated, but in my mind, he would have lost by much larger numbers.

[zacho]

8. You;re stuck in the past

Dean, Kerry, and Gore have all failed. Support someone who is a rising star. Consider Feingold, Doyle, Obama and Spitzer. If you're open to moderates consider Bredensen, Warner and Reid.

[politicasista]

11. No we aren't stuck in the past

We need to nominate who is best for the party and country, and stop throwing away people like Gore or Kerry. They have NOT failed. America failed them period.

[ClassWarrior]

9. Her name is Senator Clinton.

Thank you.

NGU.

[glitch]

10. Chameleonic Lifeforms? No thanks!

Sorry couldn't resist. Not talking about Hillary either, just in general.
It would make me so happy if someone got the reference...

[ZRB]

13. It's not over

The election was stolen, and it will be stolen again in 06, 08, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30, 32, 34, 36, 38, 40, 42, 44, 46, 48, 50, and so on, unless we keep fighting.

Just because Kerry won't be president doesn't mean we should "move on." I for one will NEVER move on. I will NEVER forget the atrocity of 11-2. The LAST thing we should be doing is moving on. We need to continue to make the case that Kerry won the election. It is the ONLY way we will be able to reform the voting system, which in turn is the only way the Democrats will ever have another winning election.


I will continue to wear my "Kerry won" button, and the bumperstickers are staying on the car. FUCK moving on.

[masjenkins]

15. sorry for saying "moving on"

I really do believe that Kerry won.. and I will continue to support him . I didn't mean that as it sounded. he is in iraq today , no??? i met a kid on his way to iraq in the dee-troit airport.. i'll start another thread at some point about what i learned about how our military is treating these guys,, too depressing to go into now.. (clue.. military flight discounts are 200 dollars more! ) support our troops. ok.

[Zookeeper]

16. Why the heck are so many Dems eager for it to be over?

All I can think is that no one is reading the same information I've seen. Based on proven irregularities, if not downright fraud, there is every reason to think that Kerry won Ohio. And, despite what the hysterical Rethugs had to say today, it isn't JUST about Ohio. There were thousands of reports of problems across the country.

Yes, ZRB...this election was stolen (as was the election of 2000) and I will never accept the legitimacy of a Bush presidency unless there is an honest recount in all of the states that had questionable results and Bush is proven to be the winner.

[masjenkins]

17. ditto n/t

[NewYorkerfromMass]

18. I'm afraid John McCain could beat anyone we nominate

anyone- including Kerry.

[Carolab]

19. Hillary plays to the middle. Just like Bill.

Stop the "triangulation" strangulation of the party base.

[OKthatsIT]

20. I'd vote for her

her words were very strong, with conviction. I appreciated that and I'm going to write to her and the others who stuck their neck out.

[Blue_In_AK]

21. I am still very, very fond of Kerry

But we'll have to wait and see what the next four years hold. A lot can happen in four years (witness the last four - yeccchhhh...)

[EndElectoral]

22. I'd vote for Boxer over Hilary any day, but will probably vote Green

[heyphillip]

23. Hillary no thanks

The demorcratic party needs to stop looking for Senators for the presidency and look at some of these Governors. that's where they are going to get there good canidates.JFK was the last Senator ever elected President. both Carter and Clinton were southern governors

[Pacifist Patriot]

24. I'm going to be obnoxious again and say that I am not

interested in who is running in 2008 until we reclaim a majority in congress in 2006. I would really like to see Bush legislatively blocked for the last two years of his illegitimate presidency. He will never be held accountable unless he has to face a Democratically controlled Senate and House. We absolutely MUST kick ass in the mid terms. Impeachment proceedings are a pipe dream unless we take the Senate.

[lastknowngood]

25. Dean may not be your choice but he is mine. I don't want anymore

appeasers and shrub suck ups like Kerry if you think I'll vote Dem again
without a MAJOR overhaul of this party your wrong. If the cowards wont even vote when it doesn't count because they are afraid of the shrub and his minions then they should retire and let some real Dem's take over. I'm done trying to appease the DLC/DNC/RNC assholes and if they wont fight I wont waste my time on them.

[johnnie]

26. I haven't heard a lot of support for her to run anyway

I have heard it mention, but not by a lot of people. I thought the majority of Dems weren't looking for her to run. :shrug:

[demodonkey]

28. 2008 is over too unless we work for Election Reform / Voters Rights! eom

[Must_B_Free]

29. Wesley Clark - Dennis Kucinich

[KRose]

30. Kerry 2008!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This guy IS a real leader! I want him to run in 2008!

[Orsino]

31. 2008 May Be Irrelevant...

...if there's not going to be a real election. Emboldened by yesterday's fizzle, those who stole 2000 by the skin of their teeth, and 2004 by a comfortable margin, will simply work a little bit harder to lose inconvenient votes. They've proven that the frog won't jump out of the pot of water no matter how they turn up the heat.

Under these circumstances, it won't matter who runs against the Republican appointee.

[Ganja Ninja]

33. Unless there's a change from paperless voting to a real ..

verifiable system of voting I don't see any reason for even bothering to vote. As time goes on the electronic machines are becoming more wide spread and any hope of saving the Democracy through the vote gets dimmer and dimmer. That's why it was so important for the Democrats to stand up yesterday. I'm thoroughly discouraged and pissed off.

[Clark2008]

32. Kerry and Edwards probably are "damaged goods"

but I agree with the rest on your list - even Gore. Most people know Gore didn't lose.

My name speaks for itself regarding who I think it should be, but I'd be happy to look into a Gore or a Warner.

[roenyc]

34. hmmm Kerry was over before the election sorry

look Kerry has many problems that he will never overcome, because he can not. he just doesn't know how. and if you have seen that by now i dont know what to tell you. i have supported him since last year and never said a word when i wanted to. but throughout the campaign he did little to defend himself and too many of the negatives stuck. too many Dem's/ind voted he isn't the chimp. not he is john Kerry.

Al Gore is a wonderful man i have so much respect for. he would be a wonderful president. if his campaign is run properly.

Wes Clark i like too, except he isn't a politician and when they got a hold of him early in the primary's they made him into a walking talking point in a sweater. ruined him. there is hope for him though. he would be a good candidate.

John Edwards what a cutie, could win because everyone would just want to look at him. good choice. In fact in the primaries in NY he was my choice over Kerry.

[rodeodance]

35. I am not writing off Hiliary at this point.

[roenyc]

36. why hillary?

not a good choice here.