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Firespirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 07:04 PM
Original message
We WON This Round!
First, I am not slamming the genuine DU members who are upset and disappointed, and who hoped for more than what happened. I respect you and your idealism deeply. We need people like you who think big, who will NOT settle, who will keep pushing for more and better. There is nothing in the world wrong with that. Please, keep it up. It's necessary.

But I cannot support wholesale slamming of these excellent Senators and Representatives. They will be getting enough of it from the enemy, and they don't need it from their friends. If they are completely thankless for what they did, if they get nothing but grief from both sides, what makes you think they will do ANYTHING else on the issue? What makes you think that they won't just collectively say, "To hell with this if no one appreciates it"?

I agree it cannot stop with this Congressional "venting session." We must say, "Well done -- but that's not all you must do." We must have full investigations in Ohio, New Mexico, Florida, and elsewhere. We must have real, meaningful legislation drafted, and strict enforcement of it. And we will not get that if we slam these members of Congress! People -- we ARE the base on this issue! If we don't support them, who will?

There are several aspects of this that ought to be self-evident:

1. Yes, they stood up because we gave them such overwhelming support, but it was NOT done simply to appease us (by which I mean doing something they don't care about in order to shut us up). This is the first time since the act was passed that there has been a formal challenge of a state's electors on the basis of election fraud. That's not just historic; that's a LANDMARK. Even though so few voted yea, standing up was brave and noble, and in doing it they have put targets on their backs. They didn't do something of this magnitude, and with this risk, to appease us. This was not a well-publicized issue that the whole country was watching them on. They didn't have to do a thing, yet they DID. They did it because they BELIEVE IN IT.

2. Expanding upon that: If they did it because they believe in it, then they will not stop with this step. This is NOT intended to be a one-act performance. There will be investigations and legislation. They have a clue now what's going on in our system, and the investigations will turn up even more. If they didn't intend to fix anything, they would not have spoken and put their necks on the line. PERIOD. I am confident that before the year is over, we will have the full gory details of what went down in Ohio, at the very least, and possibly elsewhere. Bush** will go down in history as having taken office twice under false pretenses, once by judicial nullification of a (more or less) legitimate election and then by outright fraud. There will be no erasing the stigma of that. Faustus Bush may think he's doing fine, but when the devil comes to collect, there's no going back. He will NEVER "win" a presidential election legitimately now. Once fraud is shown, heads will roll. The little guys who actually perpetrated it may well betray their masters when caught. We shall see.

3. The Republicans who spoke today made complete fools of themselves and disgraced their offices. While our Democrats gave passionate, eloquent speeches appealing to patriotism, the Repugs contributed nothing--NOTHING--but namecalling and nastiness. They tried to make it into a partisan issue and failed MISERABLY. They tried to paint the Dems as being immature and instead revealed themselves to be so. What we saw and heard today were two groups: one standing tall, proud, and honorable; the other, petty, juvenile, asinine, and utterly dishonorable. And, judging from the feedback on C-SPAN and elsewhere, I'd say they are going to pay for it. They saw this coming but tried their usual tactic of trying to attack the speaker and marginalize the issue, and they screwed up BIG. I mean, they evermore BLEW IT. They had their chance today to take a side in favor of justice and truth, or at least pretend to, but they chose not to. They failed to see what is coming, or chose not to believe it, and it's too late for them now. They've made it clear where they stand. Their remarks will come back and bite them on their sorry worthless fascist butts, starting with Bugman DeLay.


I do not know how much airplay this particular event will receive, but when--and it is a WHEN--the full details of this sorry affair go public, people will listen up. It'll be too late for a '05 to '09 Kerry presidency, but it will not be too late for democracy or for justice. (And, fellow Kerry faithful, if I were you I would not despair altogether on that other thing. :))

The thieves and their apologists don't know how to handle this. They thought that not only had they gotten away with it, but that they could continue to get away with it because no one would do anything about it. They have found themselves wrong now, and it frightens them. Fraud is their life-blood. I'm not saying that every Republican in Washington was elected fraudulently, but some no doubt were (Georgia 2002, anyone??).

The battle lines have been drawn now, and this opening round is a victory. Could it have been better? YES. But it was a victory nonetheless. Onward! We are going to win this war and give the United States the election system that we can be proud of.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. I thought it was more successful then others did ...the repugs are pissed
about it so that also makes me happy! Did you notice how the repugs resorted to calling names and smearing while the Dems stated facts brought to them??? Hee-hee!
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Right on!
And frankly, as fucked up as things are, getting this into a debate on the floor at all was a MAJOR victory--but it's only one confrontation in a much, much larger battle.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. First salvo good - of course could've been great, but good is better than
the other thing. Excellent post, thanks for posting.
Fraud only really works when it's not discovered. So showing that we know has put them on notice. I just hope we use follow up this salvo with some very heavy artillery.
It's very hard when you don't know the plan, or even if there is a real plan. Faith-based people do have the certainty advantage, anyway. Of course it doesn't make up for all the disadvantages of being faith-based (which also includes certainty, there's the paradox).
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darkworkz Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. The fact is
The sleeping giant is awake. To mix a metaphor, there's no putting the genie back in the bottle this time. The neocon's know this. Their greatest fear has been made manifest.

The DUDQ's (as they're called, not by me) are on the right page, they just don't know it yet. Some will drop out, other's, many others will join. Today's event will attract the attention of many US citizens that had no idea that all of this has been going on. Today could be considered a chrysalis point.

Numbers will swell from this moment forward, it's inevitable. Why do I say this? I'll only point out one reason; the economy. As it continues to falter more people will look for the reasons why. They'll look to Bush for the answers, he's got none. Then their anger will cause them to look for ways to take him down.

Sure, I know what I've typed is the simplistic view but you get the idea.

There's trouble in neocon land and they just got the message.
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JMDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. Like...
To use a baseball analogy, did we win by 6-5, or did we "win" by getting a bunt single in a potential no hitter against us with two outs in the bottom of the ninth?

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corbett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. Great Post!
It was a good day. Get ready for the criminal phase. BBV and ReDefeatBush.com have the evidence lined up (as do the FBI and GAO). We'll have have to wait to see if they can do anything about it in a fortnight's time.
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southwood Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. This may have been the fist time...
... Internet activism, in the total absence of mass media attention, has made senators and congressmen step forward. This is the way to move forward!
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FreepFryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. Excellent, on-target post. Negativity on this is short-sighted.
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. Very well put, Firespirit!!!
Plenty of time to bicker about the details later.

Let's take some time and recognize what really happened today!!!

:toast:
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. Terrific post, Firespirit!
You are really eloquent and I share your views wholeheartedly!:toast:
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floridadem30 Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. great post. thanks. n/t
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