If Dean won the primaries we would never have lost or had these problems

[Machiavelli05]

Im sick of hearing this too.

Dean did lose - perhaps some see it as unfortunate. I see it as Dean wouldnt have had a better chance against Bush than Kerry. Even if the Dean Scream didnt happen, it did point out one thing... the media did NOT like Howard Dean - at least they had a love/hate relationship with Kerry.

People still lamenting Deans loss and still fighting the Dean vs Kerry battle are huge sore losers. Or was there election fraud in the primaries too...

I want to thank all the loyal Kerry supporters from the primaries, the election and now. Everyone involved in the campaign and involved with the grass roots effort on his part did a great job, we believed in him then, and its good to see that some of us can still believe in him as the guy we saw before Nov 3rd. (Still wont be voting for him in the next primary though)

[Southsideirish]

1. What a dishonest post subject.

Very unfair.

I love Dean and never liked Kerry but I worked my butt off for him including traveling to neighboring states five times to ring doorbells on his behalf.

IMO. he sucked as a candidate - no charisma - all resume.

I hope the next time the party choosers give us a candidate with both.

[MindPilot]

2. the media forced Kerry the loser on us - we did not choose him

I supported Kerry only because he wasn't * but Kerry made some seriously dumbass mistakes during the campaign. He subseqently proved what I originally thought about him. He was a slimly inside the beltway politico who is more interested in his image than the good of the country. Dean is a fighter; Kerry is self-serving. That's the fact.

[asjr]

3. Any Democratic nominee would have lost to the electronic

voting machines rigged to elect Bush.

[illflem]

4. Way I see it

Kerry would have made a better prez than Dean, but Dean would have had a better chance at winning.

[Twist_U_Up]

5. Did you ever stop to think.....

the primaries are fixed too ?

[Machiavelli05]

6. No, I took my lithium and prozac...

have you?

[euler]

13. Do you mind if I use that ?

[Beth in VT]

8. Iowa caucus has no place in a democracy.

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. I still feel an overhaul of the primary process would be

helpful to putting an end to these hindsight agonizations.

Same day primaries with ranked ballots. That way no one in later states feels like the nominee is chosen long before their primaries. And there with ranked voting there is a clearer determination of who the party wants to represent them in the general election.

------------------------------------------------------------
Help save our country one town, county, and state at a time!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm#why

[Machiavelli05]

19. completely agree

[Democrat Dragon]

9. The more I hear about spineless Democrats..

The more those New World Order/Illuminati/Skull & Bones/Freemasons/Bilderberg Group/Bohemian Grove/Trilateral Commission conspiracy theories seem to have weight.

[mdb]

10. Who has a chance when the game is rigged? N/T

[Carolab]

11. Sorry, no

He didn't lose. He was deliberately and maliciously sabotaged by the party and maligned by the media. Kerry was pushed down Dean supporters throats by the DLC.

Dean is a winner. He is still fighting hard and he still has power. He is in running for chair of the DNC for chrissake.

There is nothing wrong with talking about Dean because Dean is still a major player in the progressive movement. Join Democracy for America and help to support progressive candidates. Join Progressive Democrats of America, of which Dean is part, along with Kucinich.

I hope he runs again for 2008. THIS TIME, if he does, we won't be fooled again!

A loser? Get real.

[marcologico]

12. Wrong, Dean was king of all media right up to the day he lost Iowa.

Then he melted down. But until then he was the press-annointed candidate. The storyline was, "Kerry, New Deal has-been; Dean, internet-savvy quiz kid." Voters rejected Dean before the press did.

[Beth in VT]

15. voters rejected him because of the "unelectable" and

"angry/emotionally unstable" memes planted by Republicans and Democrats alike who were threatened by him. The media had a patronizing and skeptical attitude toward him all along. His popularity grew by grassroots and word of mouth who circumvented the media, not because of the media.

[marcologico]

17. Beth, the media was slobbering all over him until he lost and screamed.

It was a foregone conclusion that Dean would win handily in Iowa, and the press loves to pick winners, so they picked him. Surprise, they were wrong.

[Carolab]

20. I'm talking about the faked, over-amped "scream speech"

Also, the media was part of the Rove machine take-down.

There were two fronts against Dean: the DLC and the RNC, and the media is just an extension of the latter. Supporters/campaigners of Gephardt and Kerry including Robert Torricelli, started a 527 organization led by David Jones which Jones stated was started expressly to "take Dean down" and ran hateful, misleading ads against Dean in Iowa and New Hampshire in the two weeks before the Iowa primary. It was reported in the New Yorker that Rove went to a Dean rally, saw how popular he was becoming and said out loud "that's the one we want and started yelling 'Go Dean'", which is the usual Rovian reverse-psychology tactic. The truth is, Dean's meteoric rise in popularity scared both the DLC (who thought Kerry wouldn't win in the primaries) AND the RNC (who thought he'd beat Bush if he went all the way). In actual fact, Rove had a REAM of materials, including Kerry's record and the Swifties, in a file just waiting to use against Kerry.

[New Earth]

14. i'm sorry but

bleh. forget it, this thread is insitigative of a flame war!!! :hi:


btw, i don't like Dean :hi:

[Padme Amidala]

16. Kerry quit. So it's easy to speculate that others would not have.

I saw Dean as a conservative who agree with Bush on too many issues. But he couldn't have run a worse race than Kerry.

[marcologico]

18. Kerry didn't quit. He lost. Try to keep it straight okay? Thanks. n/t