Many Americans wept yesterday!

[fooj]

Many Americans wept yesterday!

I was so proud of my senator I wept! I wept with the hope that this country would rise from the ignorance and fear bestowed upon it by its corrupt and vile leaders! I then wept because for one brief moment in time it all seemed like things may actually work in favor of the American People! I felt such a sense of relief and hope! And then, as quickly as these emotions overwhelmed me, they were drained ruthlessly from my soul...my spirit. I will never forget the reality and horror of watching ONE BRAVE COURAGEOUS SOLDIER OF TRUTH AND FREEDOM STAND ALONE!! I cannot imagine the betrayal this woman felt. How can we tolerate the indecency and the cowardice displayed by her fellow senators! Yes, Barbara cried. She cried for the future of our country. Many of us cried. The way our elected officials behaved yesterday was HEARTBREAKING! And now they mock her. They mock a decent American who was trying to fix a broken system. They mock by torturing us with their righteous, pompous verbiage! These people are monsters and the senators who stood indifferent to truth and freedom should feel enormous shame. They are not worthy of our support. They not only failed their colleague...they failed their country! I was stunned at their lack of principles and integrity. And you?

[Harry S Truman]

1. tick...tick...tick....

What short of violence will break the shackles of the new American fascism? What? Please tell me.

Since these people turned this country into a one-party state with a corporate media to keep so many ignorant, what can be done?

[fooj]

3. I haven't a clue...

My heart just aches for a true patriot!

[Blue_In_AK]

5. Education

Each one of us must make it our duty to step out into moderate Republican-land (no hope for the others) and educate them about the reality of ** and his dark minions. I believe there are thousands, maybe millions, of people who voted for ** out of sheer ignorance or inertia. I still think moderate Republicans will ultimately be our biggest allies in bringing ** and those like him down. We need these people, like the Republican citizens who called into C-Span yesterday afternoon expressing their support for examining the system of elections. They're not ALL stupid, and I think they can be reached if every one of us does our part.

Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I really don't think all is lost. Politics swings like a pendulum and it's so far right now, there's nowhere to go except back left.

[outergeorge]

7. I will refrain from further comment, but

fascism

The US is far from this

[bunny planet]

9. LOL

Looks to me like this administration meets all the textbook definitions of Fascism according to the link you've provided, if they are not there completely yet, it's not because they are not trying. Open your eyes.

[RaulVB]

10. Far from this?

"An extreme form of nationalism that played on fears of communism and rejected individual freedom, liberal individualism, democracy, and limitations on the state."

You don't really think that is that far from the definition above, do you?

Replace "fears of communism" with "fears of Islam, Muslims, French, gays, liberals..."

Your choice.

[outergeorge]

12. The key word here is extreme

Degrees of this exist in every nation in the world. The dividing line is "extreme." As long as there are nations there will be tension between them. As long as there are groups dedicated to destroying nations there will be fear. Fascism is when these things become tools to establishing totalitarian control. The citizens of the US will not allow this to happen. It is people like you and me speaking out that prevent this.

[rman]

14. so how is Bush not extreme?

What's not extreme about lying about reasons for war?

What is not extreme about passing laws that allow imprisonment of US citizens, without due process and based solely on *suspicion* of terrorism related activities?
What's not extreme about Ashcroft saying "Waiting for a crime to be committed or waiting for there to be evidence of the commission of a crime didn't seem to us to be an appropriate way to protect the American people." (BBC docu "The Power of Nightmares") as the rationale for passing such laws.

What's not extreme about redefining torture so that what everyone else thinks is torture is no longer torture under US law?
What's not extreme about wanting to repeal the Geneva Convention? (Gonzalez)

What's not extreme about near total corporate control over the media?

What's not extreme about the "merger of state- and corporate power" (Mussolini's definition of fascism) that has happened in the US?

[outergeorge]

21. What's not extreme...

What's not extreme about lying about reasons for war? - It hasn't been proved that Bush lied, while what he and others said may have been based on poor intelligence(or just wrong info). That does not inherently mean he lied. At the time he may have very well thought what he was saying was the truth.

What is not extreme about passing laws that allow imprisonment of US citizens, without due process and based solely on *suspicion* of terrorism related activities? - The relatively few people who have been detained have not given up their legal rights. They still have the right to a lawyer/fair trial etc.

What is not extreme about passing laws that allow imprisonment of US citizens, without due process and based solely on *suspicion* of terrorism related activities?
What's not extreme about Ashcroft saying "Waiting for a crime to be committed or waiting for there to be evidence of the commission of a crime didn't seem to us to be an appropriate way to protect the American people." (BBC docu "The Power of Nightmares") as the rationale for passing such laws. - Didn't hear this so I can't comment on it.

What's not extreme about redefining torture so that what everyone else thinks is torture is no longer torture under US law? - I confess I am fairly clueless here. Could you provide a little more info?

What's not extreme about wanting to repeal the Geneva Convention? (Gonzalez) - Heard something about this, from what I heard he did not think it applied to those who were being detained in Iraq. If I'm in error here please let me know.

What's not extreme about near total corporate control over the media? - These are companies, not government control.

What's not extreme about the "merger of state- and corporate power" (Mussolini's definition of fascism) that has happened in the US? - Again could you please provide a little more info as to what you mean?

[RaulVB]

27. Ah, you are just trying to justify the regime!

Thanks for clarifying who you are...

[outergeorge]

30. I don't want to justify it

But I don't want to judge it without the whole story. That's why I'm asking for more information. I'm not trying to stir things up here, if you think I am email me so that it won't be posted here.

[mirandapriestly]

11. I thought a few of those described the U.S

not definitively but they described several aspects of what we are becoming due to the actions of this administration. If they are not stopped I think all of those descriptions will be true and worse.

[BreakForNews]

22. Congrats. You already did the most important thing.

If there had not been a challenge yesterday.

An irredemable slide into Fascism would have been confirmed.

Y'all stopped the ROT.

[outergeorge]

23. Exactly

The right to challenge these things, and to have them judged by people the people elect is one of the things that keeps this country free.

[RaulVB]

2. Non-Americans too...(n/t)

[mzmolly]

4. She didn't feel betrayed. She said yesterday was a great victory,

that she had much support and that we should not get hung up on the yea/nay votes. ~ Her words on the Ed Schultz show.


Ms. Boxer stood with 32 other Democrats in the House yesterday. She stood with 5 members of the Senate who praised her couragous stand, one of which was the former first lady of our nation.

[blue neen]

6. Yesterday was indeed a great victory.

I cried, but it was tears of joy and awe.

[fooj]

15. Great!!!

She's ok- I'm ok!

[Kurovski]

8. Yesterday was a good day.

Monsters? The Republicans wield enormous power. They can put a bulls-eye on a Rep's back and *poof* they're gone.

They control elections. They can break our reps. The Dems have to walk a fine line.

We had many stand up and speak. Our Dems must play this "game" cautiously.

If you speak of the Republican party as shameful, well alright then.

You do not make this clear in your post.

If I were a moderate, or truly conservative Republican I would feel outrage over the extremists that have taken over my party.

Your post makes it seem as though yesterday was a tragic failure and I couldn't disagree more with that view.

Yesterday was the beginning of a long walk down the path of democracy.
It was peaceful, and bloodless, and so truly in the best spirit that lives in what I will call the American way.

[Blue_In_AK]

13. That's right

There's a lot wrong with the country now, and a lot of the "fascism" label sticks, but if we were truly in Hitler-land, all those brave people who stood up yesterday would have been taken out and summarily shot. There's still hope, and we can take this country back.

[Kurovski]

35. No, instead those who stood up

will have millions of Republican dollars spent in an effort to defeat them.

Lies and a *tweeked* voting machine or two will help the process along.

No my Friend, people being dragged out and shot is not the only indicator that fascism is on its way.

We are headed for fascism in this nation. Maybe Bush thinks it's something else, but we don't have to fool ourselves.

[fooj]

16. i don't feel that yesterday was a tregedy!! I spent my ENTIRE day...

convincing Dems (that DID think it a tragedy) that we had made a positive step forward. And yes, it was a very good day! I have spent my entire morning, today, however, defending myself and my point of view. Where have I gone wrong? I've been a positive member of DU and always was respectful of the many different viewpoints.
Yes, we had many speak yesterday. But only ONE in the senate stood. Five spoke, yet only ONE stood. I think I need a break from all of this. I truly was only trying to be a productive member...who needs this? So much for truth!

[4democracy]

28. Have you seen the other senators speeches on C-Span?

The Democrats used the discussion time to air a lot of the dirty laundry in the 2004 election.
The Republicans who spoke from Ohio need to be voted out of office simply for not respecting the wishes of their constituents.

[Kurovski]

34. Fooj, please also read this post

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1474549>

I only read this one post of yours, not any others you have written in your eighteen days on DU, but thank you for helping others who may have been discouraged. It's important to realize that not everything is going to happen overnight.

This post you've started here is not one of those.

It is also important to realize that the political climate is exceedingly dangerous, I hate, yes hate to say it, but I feel that we need to cut some slack. Certainly not call leaders monsters. Particularly when our leaders are completely under the control of people who could indeed be considered monstrous.

Let our leaders know of our disappointment, anger, whatever.
But many who did not stand yesterday have stood in the past and will stand in the future.

The Republicans are deeply entrenched in our government, our media, and they control the election process. It's not going to be as easy as it was in the Ukraine. We have to face that and work from there.

[fooj]

36. I'm sorry that I wasn't clear.

When I referred to monsters I was referring to the repubs who did nothing but name-call and mock! "They mock by torturing us with their righteous, pompous verbiage! These people are monsters..." This is all I meant by the comment. If you read some of my posts you'll see that I have been positive and supportive since signing on! I hope I didn't offend you...this obviously was not my intention! PEACE!

[keepthemhonest]

38. To most people it was very clear what your message

was about.Your senator stood up and did a very brave thing and now she is going to get slammed by some repukes.you can stand proud.

[Kurovski]

40. That's fine, I trust you, don't worry

And no, I was not offended.

The post was confusing to me, if not to keepthemhonest.

The subjects were not clear to me, and the paragraph was difficult for me to follow.

as I've said before, I'm as dumb as George sometimes.

But now we're clear, and onward we go! :-)

Peace to you, fooj!

[fooj]

37. Ironically, i've been

suggesting to other members that it's not an all or nothing situation, as well!

[uppityperson]

17. I did when they protested in the joint hearings.

I did not hope for any election outcome change, but did cry and dance around when they said they were protesting Ohio.

[Emit]

18. I teared up too

When Tubbs-Jones began her five minute speech...man, what a moment...

Edited to add: "...and my parents didn't raise no fools.." She said something like that. It was great!

[seito]

19. I also wept

I have a new found respect for Senator Boxer and everyone that stood for Democracy yesterday.

Fooj, please read this. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x256350

Senator Boxer chose to be the lone patriot to advance this issue. There needed to be only one and she took the obligation freely. She knew beforehand that she would be standing alone, which is that much more to her credit.

[fooj]

20. Thanks for that.

I sure as hell needed it!:pals:

[jdog]

25. Thanks for your post.

I needed it too.

[Emit]

24. Yes, thanks seito, I had not seen that post n/t

[4democracy]

26. The challenge will always be a part of history now, I didn't expect

to overturn the election with a Republican controlled House and Senate. It was a wonderful first step to get all the statements into the record.
The Democratic Senators covered most of the important points in their speeches: the facts about Blackwell's involvement in systematic disenfranchisement of his own state, the need for paper trails and the ease that could be accomplished with bi-partisan help,they pointed out the fact for the record, the right to vote is the right all other rights depend upon,if you don't have this right, all other rights are in jeopardy.
This is going to be a long fight, we have to keep up the pressure and not let them get away with dragging out election reform. We must have it before 2006, or Ohio will get a new governor named Blackwell whether they want him or not!

[Mistwell]

33. A minor footnote in history

To those who think "major" history was made yesterday...how many of you had ever read about the last time the house and senate had to be split for a debate concerning electoral votes? Hint...it's not in any standardized history textbooks - and only in specialized books used by hobbiests, debaters, and graduate students and professors.

This was a very minor footnote that will be confined to the dust bins of history. Am I not allowed to be pissed by that? Am I not allowed to be pissed at the people who are so deep in denial from grief that they don't even see that?

[keepthemhonest]

29. hey fooj

your senator did a great thing and to many of us she will always be a hero. Many americans will never even know what she did for them. This is just the first steo and she did it. If she had not done that yesterday and it was just like 2000,I really son't know what I would do, I would have lost faith in democracy.

Right now i see it as there is still a flicker left in that candle that burns for our democracy and if she had not had sone that,that candle would have been out in my mind. We need to stoke that fire and get it burning so it is an eternal candle.We need to educate americans on election reform and keep pounding at these senators.

You can stand proud for yesterday, the repukes are hooten and hollerin because she helped make Bush and that whole voting system look bad. Text books will show her as a hero in the near future.

[fooj]

31. hey girlfriend!

Thanks for the kind words...I just felt like shit this morning! The weather sucks. That may have had alot to do with it! Oh well- did you get my e-mail? Check it, ok? Keep in touch!

[keepthemhonest]

32. I'll go check

the one this morning I could not read.

and you are welcome.Yeah if the weather sucks that makes it harder

[blue neen]

39. fooj, you are so lucky to have Senator Boxer.

My senators are Santorum and Spector. What a discouraging state of affairs that is! Phone calls and e-mails to those two were totally wasted. :(

You can be sooo thankful to have a senator who really matters! :hi: